Old 01-18-2010, 08:37 PM   #1
beatbybit
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Default PiPs and .reaparts - 2010

(PiP : Project in Project)


lets try a new, clean thread for this - they say..
new year, new hope.


http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=17664 - here is the older thread if anyone wants to read back about the idea/FR.

here is a video about "pattern based" PiPs: (36+ MB .swf)
http://www.jasonbrianmerrill.com/bbb...mo-006-CAM.zip


soo. PiPs are cool, but there are a few things about them that should work better, imo.

im not sure if PiPs ever gonna be like .reaparts, but:

* PiPs should be embedded in the parent session

* should be able to implode tracks/items into PiPs, and explode PiPs to tracks

* edited and selected PiPs on the parent timeline should sync some selection in the child session when PiP is opened. now its easy to get lost there - since the child session "looks dead" while playing

* i'd love to see colored "regions" in the child session, according to the PiP item color on the parent session.

* on-demand "Refresh PiP content" would be nice, the RAM render fails sometimes while editing, and once its rendered w/quirks, it plays w/quirks.

* optional temporary render to File would be cool, imo. rendering in the background, similar to the Glue function, for eg. this may give an option for displaying the PiP content peak mixed/rendered to stereo or multichannel media.

* 3 options to see a PiP opened : Inline (like Folders), Floating (like MIDI editor), and in NewTab (as is)



any other ideas?
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Old 01-18-2010, 09:06 PM   #2
Mercado_Negro
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Great! Thanks for putting this together

I've always seen this Feature working as an in-project MIDI item: embedded and floating in a window when you double-click on it. Simple in words but maybe hard to code. PiP's will make my work easier while mixing and on productions, less tracks more control. I could take all related tracks (all guitars, all pianos, all drums, all percussion, etc.) and convert them to one (1) PiP. Just like comping but more advanced: one big item with many items inside which I can edit easily on the floating window. Less tracks: just one track with everything inside: more control: one track for each element in my mix. With a synchronized timeline between PiPs and the main project everything would be easier: faster editing, more control over layers, etc. I think Beat-by-bits has said everything I'd need in PiPs... if I find something else I'll post again. Please share your ideas, how this would benefit your workflow, what you'd like, what you'd need... this is a powerful feature, let's keep it alive
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Old 01-18-2010, 10:38 PM   #3
moliere
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I've come across a use for PiPs that may be incredibly hard to code for, but would make my life a LOT easier.

I've got a bunch of individual projects, with backing tracks and record enabled sampler tracks. This allows the drummer in one of my bands to play along to a click, triggering our samples from his real kick and snare that has acoustic triggers hooked up and also have our backing samples/patterns all synced up from the computer.

Our songs for a given live set are sequenced into each other with segues/interludes etc, so before we got our drummer, I just laid them up for each gig with the set order and rendered them out for easy access from my iPod. Now that we're running with a live drummer, its a lot more complicated, and I don't want to have to switch projects on the fly. My current solution is to copy and paste all the tracks into one big project, a folder for each song (and many subfolders for a different mix to the drummer and FOH) and move them all along in the timeline while setting up mute automation for my triggered kicks/snares for each song.

unfortunately the upkeep on this if I change projects is insane, and its already hard to keep track of things (and keep automation within a project together (especially if the automation is on a folder track without items, so it doesn't get moved automatically).

if PiPs allowed midi routing into them and realtime interaction, then all this would be easy as! or is this too much to ask?
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Old 12-02-2017, 07:48 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moliere View Post
I've come across a use for PiPs that may be incredibly hard to code for, but would make my life a LOT easier.

I've got a bunch of individual projects, with backing tracks and record enabled sampler tracks. This allows the drummer in one of my bands to play along to a click, triggering our samples from his real kick and snare that has acoustic triggers hooked up and also have our backing samples/patterns all synced up from the computer.

Our songs for a given live set are sequenced into each other with segues/interludes etc, so before we got our drummer, I just laid them up for each gig with the set order and rendered them out for easy access from my iPod. Now that we're running with a live drummer, its a lot more complicated, and I don't want to have to switch projects on the fly. My current solution is to copy and paste all the tracks into one big project, a folder for each song (and many subfolders for a different mix to the drummer and FOH) and move them all along in the timeline while setting up mute automation for my triggered kicks/snares for each song.

unfortunately the upkeep on this if I change projects is insane, and its already hard to keep track of things (and keep automation within a project together (especially if the automation is on a folder track without items, so it doesn't get moved automatically).

if PiPs allowed midi routing into them and realtime interaction, then all this would be easy as! or is this too much to ask?
I'm having about the same problem.
I was searching for a solution to be "active" in one of 13 song project tabs (play stop etc) but having the output from the project go to the "master project" where also the physical output routing happens. There i'd rout the monitoring for the band and the main outs for the venue soundtech.

but there's no such thing (tried with Rewire to Reaper instances, but then you need 2 interfaces and it's still not as easy as should be).
so to avoid doing everey wish for a change in monitoring in 13 projects, and to better control volume levels in all 13 songs, i also put them in to 1 big ass projects of 1h10min playtime, 52tracks and about 40automation envelopes.

so, if there will be a possibility one day to achieve this, i'll be the happiest Reaperian alive .
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Old 01-19-2010, 02:50 AM   #5
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hi beatbybit;

about your movie...

- play cursor doesn't show in close up part. i get that it is looping, but at first it is
disorienting that the play cursor is nowhere to be seen... (too low frame rate?)

- you do not explain really what you are doing on the track "baz build".. i cannot tell what
is ghosted here, how many pip's you have going in this project, and whether copying a pip
in reaper makes a ghost copy, or a real copy?

nice work on this... it does go a little fast in places for noobs like me,
and the funky beat makes me get out of my chair and dance...
well, that is my problem to solve

so imo, you should provide more background information so as to paint a more complete picture.

as for what i do understand about the f.r. for reaparts:
assuming that pip may remain experimental for a while to come, what do you think of:

1. parts that would only exist on one track (containers for items) which do not reqiure a separate .rpp, (e.g. like in cubase)?
2. folders that are containers (for tracks), and could be collapsed and uncollapsed, again not requiring a separate .rpp?

of course those are not new ideas, but do you think they might be worthy intermediate goals?

jeff dinces

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Old 01-26-2010, 05:43 PM   #6
denmla
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I`d love to see drag and drop of a project tab to media explorer as quick way to `pack` a pip....

Example:

Do a loop in aux tab, drag to save, drag back in main project..hope it makes sense.
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Old 01-26-2010, 05:47 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by denmla View Post
I`d love to see drag and drop of a project tab to media explorer as quick way to `pack` a pip....

Example:

Do a loop in aux tab, drag to save, drag back in main project..hope it makes sense.

nice one!

.zip? or just folder+media+.RPP?
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Old 01-26-2010, 06:31 PM   #8
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just a bump because i would like to see this return.

might try the .ini edit in the other thread when i finish this project.
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Old 01-27-2010, 02:37 AM   #9
denmla
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beatbybit View Post
nice one!

.zip? or just folder+media+.RPP?


I would be thrilled with .rpp alone but anything more is welcome!
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Old 04-10-2010, 04:14 PM   #10
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saa-lala-laalalaa..

..bump
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Old 01-26-2010, 06:42 PM   #11
beatbybit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cerberus View Post
hi beatbybit;

about your movie...

- play cursor doesn't show in close up part. i get that it is looping, but at first it is
disorienting that the play cursor is nowhere to be seen... (too low frame rate?)
the child session doesnt have a play cursor in action, nor moving VU meters.
it "plays dead" while actually playing audio. thats how it is atm.
i think you can see the play cursor moving in the parent session
(it actually plays a 32bit float version of the session, rendered to RAM)

Quote:
Originally Posted by cerberus View Post
- you do not explain really what you are doing on the track "baz build".. i cannot tell what
is ghosted here, how many pip's you have going in this project, and whether copying a pip
in reaper makes a ghost copy, or a real copy?
that track is a "placeholder" for the Bass patterns. that track contains the whole PiP as one take, full lenght item. thats where i copy my patterns out to paste em as new takes to the actual "pattern track"

PiPs are ghosted by nature, if you repeat a part of a PiP and you open the PiP up and tweak that part - all the copy-pasted items of that will reflect to that change immediately.

2 PiPs in this project, 1 for teh Drums, one for the Bass

Quote:
Originally Posted by cerberus View Post
as for what i do understand about the f.r. for reaparts:
assuming that pip may remain experimental for a while to come, what do you think of:

1. parts that would only exist on one track (containers for items) which do not reqiure a separate .rpp, (e.g. like in cubase)?
2. folders that are containers (for tracks), and could be collapsed and uncollapsed, again not requiring a separate .rpp?

of course those are not new ideas, but do you think they might be worthy intermediate goals?

jeff dinces
1. : that would be the "normal use" of an (embedded) PiP i think
2. : that would be the "inline PiP editor" i think

i think we're talking about the same thing basically.
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