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Old 12-23-2018, 12:26 AM   #1
sjs94704
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Default Should I gain stage my pre-recorded tracks?

I am a singer and get all my background music from a website online.

I wanted to ask you to look at my tracks to see if in my case they need to be gain staged?

I am asking because the website I get the music from says that these tracks are already 'processed' and mixed and I should be able to play the music 'as is' with no plugins required.

However I do put the Event/Horizon limiter on each track to prevent clipping. I do send ALL of these tracks to a BUSS and I gain stage the BUSS to -18, but I do not gain stage each individual track.

So, in my case, should I be still gain staging each individual track?

Here is a link to the folder on my Dropbox account tha has the tracks in it. Can someone take a look and tell me what you think I should do?

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/d5ql4qvuz...pKBYZhmxa?dl=0

I have never provided links for Dropbox files like this before. Please let me know if this link for any reason does not work!!!

With Gratitude,

Steven
Berkeley, CA USA
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Old 12-23-2018, 11:19 AM   #2
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is the level of the back trk/trks loud enough?

if so use as is if not make them louder done that's what i would do
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Old 12-25-2018, 12:32 PM   #3
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Hi Steven, I checked out your tracks and the drums have a few places where they go over 0.0dB. However, I setup a
project file that you can use to work around all that.

You don't want to put limiters on all the instrument tracks, in fact you can leave them exactly like they are unless
you think you need to alter the mix some. I also added 3 vocal tracks for you to record your vocals on.

As the picture shows, the instrument tracks all go to the Instruments sub-bus in the mixer. Likewise, all the vocal
tracks go to the Vocal sub-bus. Then both the Instruments and Vocal sub-bus go to the Sub Mast bus. From there the
Sub Mast goes to the Mast FX bus and the Mast FX goes to the Master bus. The Master bus goes toe Reaper's MASTER.

The way this works is it gives you total control for the mix between your instruments and your vocal.

Some folks would say you don't need the Sub Mast bus, but it works very well at controlling how hard you hit the
limiter which is on the Mast FX bus. First you'll want to bring down the Instruments bus so that it's not clipping.
You can also adjust the Sub Mast bus if it's clipping.

It's best to not touch the Master or Mast FX bus fader levels, leave them so that the fader levels are at 0.0dB. Also
if the Sub Mast is clipping a little there's no need to worry about it as long as it's not too much. With Reaper's math
that don't matter. However it's very important that the Master and Mast FX buses do not clip. I've got the limiter set
up for a threashold of -0.5dB and the limit output is -.99dB. I use -.99dB because Reaper shows .1 less then it should.

You'll probably want to adjust the threashold to get a tighter sound, just try keep it from sounding squashed or pumping.



Here is a zip file with the project and the picture above in it.

https://stash.reaper.fm/35093/Wind%2...0Steven%29.zip
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Old 12-25-2018, 07:25 PM   #4
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Hi, Tod:

I just got home from a full day of being with friends for Christmas.

I am so incredibly grateful for the effort you have gone thru on this...
MUCH more than I expected, that's for SURE!

I will take a look at this a bit later tonight or tomorrow and give you some feedback.
I'm sure there will be questions!

Merry Christmas to you and thank you so much once again for your extra efforts on this ....
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Old 12-25-2018, 08:28 PM   #5
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Just took a quick look and first question:

This is a first for me where I see that the tracks for each individual instrument are not visible. I am guessing that hiding tracks the way you did is super easy, but it never occurred to me that it could be done and would ask you to point out how to do that ......
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Old 12-25-2018, 10:44 PM   #6
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Tod:

First, I loaded up the project you provided and I am confident that I understand the concept your suggesting I use. Looks great!

QUESTION:

Once I loaded my track items back into the project I played it and both the Vocal and Instruments tracks did clip, so per your instruction I need to adjust those.
  1. Do I use the FADER to make this adjustment or a GAIN Plugin?
  2. When I do adjust the Instruments and Sub Mast tracks, what should their MAX peak levels be?

Thanks so much for your help on this.

With Gratitude,

Steven

PS - I will be sure to save the project you sent as a template for all my future projects. I will also post it on my DropBox account and make it available for others to Download to use if they wish!

I'll post the link for that when I have it .......

================================================== ================================================== ==============

Side Note: If anyone wishes to know how I named my individual track items:

1-30-E-DRUMS.mp3
2-30-E-TBN.mp3
3-30-E-BASS.mp3
4-30-E-AG.mp3
etc.....

-The 1,2,3,4 designates the order I want the tracks to be in ...
-I know how to use Microsoft Access Database software. The number 30 represents the record number for this song in my database...
-The letter E is the key the song is in. The website I get my music from I can download various keys of the same song.
-The capitol letters designate the name of the instrument:

-DRUMS
-TBN (Tambourine)
-BASS for Bass guitar
-AG for Acoustic Guitar
etc....

These capitol letters are stored in the SWS auto color/icon/layout so that my tracks get that information for display purposes. It works really well for me and over time I have got to know these letter codes so I know what I'm looking at when working on a project.
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Old 12-26-2018, 02:48 AM   #7
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In addition to my question in the previous post, for vocals what I had previously was a track for Reverb and one for a vocal slap back delay Fx.

In your setup all three vocals are routed to track 20 the vocal BUSS. So, how do Fx like Reverb and Delay for vocals fit into this routing matrix?

Just like I have been doing it previously I will still want both Fx on separate tracks to decide how much of each that each track gets.
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Old 12-26-2018, 11:58 AM   #8
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SOLUTION:

OK. I kept at it and figured it out.

As is, when I armed Vocal 1 to record I got signal there, but, for some reason it did not route anywhere else ??!!??

I have other projects where the vocal tracks work, so I simply copied those tracks including the Fx tracks and pasted them into the project that Tod made for me.

The tracks from the other projects that work the vocal tracks route to the REVERB and DELAY tracks, so I just routed those two to the Vocal BUSS track that was in this project and thankfully everything works great!

I did not delete the vocal tracks that were in the project, I just hid them.

Tod.....

I tried singing this Wind Beneath My Wings' and it sounds awesome! To me I can tell much better than what I was doing. I do think I did OK for being self-taught though.

I will still need to do some volume adjusting to account for clipping, but, this project you created also solved a few other issues I was having with some unwanted what I will call 'side noises' that the MIC was making like electrical feedback or something. I am not sure how else to describe what it was, but, no more!

I am extremely grateful for your time and effort to help me on this.

The next thing I will be looking into is that as previously stated, I am making my own music videos. So, I kind of envision getting a little fancy here and having a main project with two sub projects.

The two sub projects would be one for the video and the second would be this project that Tod created and then bringing these two together in a main project.

It will be fun to figure out how do do that!

Thanks again Tod!
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Old 12-26-2018, 02:24 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjs94704 View Post
SOLUTION:

OK. I kept at it and figured it out.

As is, when I armed Vocal 1 to record I got signal there, but, for some reason it did not route anywhere else ??!!??

I have other projects where the vocal tracks work, so I simply copied those tracks including the Fx tracks and pasted them into the project that Tod made for me.

The tracks from the other projects that work the vocal tracks route to the REVERB and DELAY tracks, so I just routed those two to the Vocal BUSS track that was in this project and thankfully everything works great!
Hi Steven, and yeah, I didn't add any FX buses, but it sounds like you got it working. I would have simply added a Reverb bus and Delay bus, then
route the "Vocal bus" track to those buses. It appears you have done. Then the Reaverb and Delay buses should be routed to the "Sub Mast" bus.

Quote:
I will still need to do some volume adjusting to account for clipping, but, this project you created also solved a few other issues I was having with some unwanted what I will call 'side noises' that the MIC was making like electrical feedback or something. I am not sure how else to describe what it was, but, no more!
Actually if you were getting noise from the mic or anywhere else in your system, this setup wouldn't eliminate it. Are you using headphones when
you record your vocal? That's important if you have a speaker monitor system, so that you don't get feedback.

Regarding fader levels and clipping, it's okay for any tracks to clip except the "Mast FX" bus, "Master" bus, and Reapers "MASTER". The faders for
those 3 tacks should stay at 0.0dB. Keep in mind, it's the limiter on "Mast FX" that will determine the output for those 3 tracks.

A word about clipping: In my mixes I do try to avoid any of my tracks cipping. However, once I've got a good mix setup, and then a few
tracks end up clipping, I don't worry about it, better to keep the good sounding mix then go back and start adjusting things.

Now in your case Steven, the "Vocal bus" and the "Instruments Bus" are for balancing the mix between the instruments and your vocals. Then the
"Sub Mast" bus is used to raise and lower the the overall mix before it hits the FX track. In my experience, the "Sub Mast" bus may not clip or
go into the red, or it might go as much as +4 or +5dB into the red, it all depends on how hard I want to hit the limiter.

Quote:
The next thing I will be looking into is that as previously stated, I am making my own music videos. So, I kind of envision getting a little fancy here and having a main project with two sub projects.

The two sub projects would be one for the video and the second would be this project that Tod created and then bringing these two together in a main project.

It will be fun to figure out how do do that!
I've been making all my videos in Reaper and the way I do it is render my audio mixes when they're done, then set up a separate project for editing
the video and adding the rendered audio. I've not used "sub projects" yet so I'm not sure how they work. However, my videos are no that fancy.

Quote:
Thanks again Tod!
Your very welcome Steven.
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Old 12-26-2018, 04:31 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
Hi Steven, and yeah, I didn't add any FX buses, but it sounds like you got it working. I would have simply added a Reverb bus and Delay bus, then
route the "Vocal bus" track to those buses. It appears you have done. Then the Reaverb and Delay buses should be routed to the "Sub Mast" bus.
I just want to double check my routing. What I did was:

I did a SEND from Vox 1 and Vox 2 and routed both to a REVERB and DELAY track. This way I can control how much of each I apply to each vocal track as I might want them to be slightly different... The rest of the matrix is as you designed....

It's all good!
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Old 12-27-2018, 05:53 AM   #11
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UPDATE:

Several people have commented in the past that I have been heavy on my Reverb for my vocal tracks. The truth on that is that until I got this project that Tod created I was not able to hear what the reverb was actually sounding like. Not even close and not sure what the difference is between the way I had mine configured vs the way things are now.

All this time to me it sounded great! But, finally I can now hear what people were talking about! Until now I had no idea how bad it was ....

So, this will allow me to finally record myself singing with the reverb set the way it should be and not cranked up so much as it has been.

Anyways, thanks again, Tod .....
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Old 12-27-2018, 05:57 AM   #12
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Just as an aside, the following...

Quote:
Should I gain stage my pre-recorded tracks?
That phrase, the modern use of that phrase "gain staging", is like fingernails on a chalkboard to me and some other people I know. The phrase has kinda been bastardized and there's apparently no going back.

Anywho, with backing track stems like these you want to keep all of them at unity gain and to Todd's point, you do want to bus them all to a common bus so that you have control over the level of the full backing mix while recording your vocals or similar. With tracks like that the backing track mix is at unity gain and the effects and panning is all built into the stereo stems so unless you feel something different (maybe want to drop the strings a little, whatever) leaving it all unity preserves the mix of the backing tracks.

The level into the master bus has not much to do with the individual track levels but because the backing track mix is up near 0 you do want to bus it all and pull it down a little bit. I wouldn't touch those individual tracks much otherwise unless you need to maybe carve out a little space for your vocal in the midrange.

There's absolutely nothing "clipping" in those tracks. Clipping is a literal term and an isolated signal simply exceeding 24-bit zero on a channel a couple of times is not clipping. To clarify that, there are a couple of clipped waveforms in the drums stem, but you can't do anything about that after the fact and they sound fine.

But yeah, you may not necessarily agree with their mix balance and want to move a few things up down to your taste.

Last edited by Lawrence; 12-27-2018 at 07:00 AM.
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Old 12-27-2018, 06:38 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjs94704 View Post
UPDATE:

Several people have commented in the past that I have been heavy on my Reverb for my vocal tracks.
Those tracks are pretty spacious and there's lots of room for a big vocal, reverb wise. It's often not how much verb, but what the verb sounds like. A big pre-delay and shaving off the lows and sibilance in the verb end helps in that regard.

If you have a vocal stem post it and I'll post back an example of it back with those stems and a healthy amount of vocal verb. Those backing tracks are pretty well done.
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Old 12-27-2018, 01:43 PM   #14
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Hey, Lawrence:

As mentioned prior, ever since I started all of my 'mixing career' (just kidding, I'm just having fun!) I never heard all the reverb choices the way they are intended until now. The reason I mention this is because there is such an incredible number of reverb choices for all sorts of things that it can get hard to choose. But, I also don't want to get stuck trying out every reverb on the planet either.

For the most part I sing POP songs such as Streisand, Midler, Christopher Cross, Phil Collins, Karen Souza, etc. I've also got some songs from groups such as Coldplay, ABBA, Mr. Mister, Toto, etc... So, I'm just looking for a little 'something' to put on my vocal track.

When it comes to picking a reverb for my vocal tracks a lot of people have said, "It depends on what your going for"...

That's fine, but I guess you could say I'm kinda like a kid in a candy store. Being still new to all of this and with so may reverb choices, I just want to try different reverbs out to see if I can find something that sounds good and to maybe through experimentation discover a sound I never thought I could create vs. already having one in mind I'm trying to find.
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Old 12-27-2018, 02:53 PM   #15
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QUESTION:

I have seen lots of talk about NORMALIZING tracks.

In my case, since I have pre-recorded tracks as the background music I will leave those well enough alone, but I am going to want to do some vocal dynamic processing on my vocal track(s) and just wanted to know if you all thought that NORMALIZING just the vocal tracks first would be a good or bad idea and your reasons for your answer?
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Old 12-27-2018, 03:12 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjs94704 View Post
Hey, Lawrence:

As mentioned prior, ever since I started all of my 'mixing career' (just kidding, I'm just having fun!) I never heard all the reverb choices the way they are intended until now. The reason I mention this is because there is such an incredible number of reverb choices for all sorts of things that it can get hard to choose. But, I also don't want to get stuck trying out every reverb on the planet either.

For the most part I sing POP songs such as Streisand, Midler, Christopher Cross, Phil Collins, Karen Souza, etc. I've also got some songs from groups such as Coldplay, ABBA, Mr. Mister, Toto, etc... So, I'm just looking for a little 'something' to put on my vocal track.

When it comes to picking a reverb for my vocal tracks a lot of people have said, "It depends on what your going for"...
I go for the old standard things and don't think about it too much. A good plate or hall reverb. I wouldn't spend too much time worrying about picking the right one, but more thinking about how to shape whatever decent one you pick to get the sound you want.
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Old 12-27-2018, 03:25 PM   #17
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Quote:
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NORMALIZING just the vocal tracks first would be a good or bad idea and your reasons for your answer?
It's neither good nor bad. It's neutral because pure gain or trim is neutral, it's just amplitude, volume, not "sound quality" or anything else like that.
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Old 12-27-2018, 05:00 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjs94704 View Post
QUESTION:

I have seen lots of talk about NORMALIZING tracks.

In my case, since I have pre-recorded tracks as the background music I will leave those well enough alone, but I am going to want to do some vocal dynamic processing on my vocal track(s) and just wanted to know if you all thought that NORMALIZING just the vocal tracks first would be a good or bad idea and your reasons for your answer?
Hi Steven, there are much better ways to deal with track and item volume then normalizing, I never normalize any
more. First of all the tracks you're getting off the net seem to be about right, so minor fader adjustments should
be enough for them.

When it comes to your vocals, if you need to bring the levels up, there's a volume knob at the upper left corner of
all you recorded items. If your vocals seem too low you can easily raise them up with that knob, it has 24dB of gain.
The way I do this is set my track fader to 0.0dB, then adjust the knob on the items so that they are about right.

The most important thing you can do for your vocals is learn how to use a compressor, if you haven't already. A
compressor can smooth out the peaks and valleys and add punch and clarity to your vocals, in a way that nothing else
can.
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Old 12-27-2018, 08:27 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
When it comes to your vocals, if you need to bring the levels up, there's a volume knob at the upper left corner of all you recorded items. If your vocals seem too low you can easily raise them up with that knob, it has 24dB of gain. The way I do this is set my track fader to 0.0dB, then adjust the knob on the items so that they are about right.
Do you ever use Dynamic Vocal Processing? As demonstrated by Kenny Gioia where he splits a vocal track up into small pieces and manually adjusts each piece up or down so that by the time he's done they are all relatively equal?

As shown here at about 2 minutes into the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pj14aKySE-4&t=343s


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
The most important thing you can do for your vocals is learn how to use a compressor, if you haven't already. A
compressor can smooth out the peaks and valleys and add punch and clarity to your vocals, in a way that nothing else
can.
Does the compressor actually negate the need for dynamic vocal processing?
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Old 12-28-2018, 09:43 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjs94704 View Post
Do you ever use Dynamic Vocal Processing? As demonstrated by Kenny Gioia where he splits a vocal track up into small pieces and manually adjusts each piece up or down so that by the time he's done they are all relatively equal?

As shown here at about 2 minutes into the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pj14aKySE-4&t=343s
Hi Steven, the way Kenny does that is one way, but it's rather fiddly and takes a lot of splitting. There's a better way
by using a "Take Volume Envelope". In that that video Kenny also shows using a "Track Volume Envelope", but a Take
Volume Envelope is better because the waveform adjusts as you adjust the envelope.

In the picture below I've got a track of a recorded saxophone. Track 1 is a duplicate of track 2. Track 1 has been edited
by adjusting the volume knob in the upper left corner, then adding and editing a "Take Volume Envelope. One way to apply
a Take Volume Envelope is "Right click on the item", and select "Take>Take volume envelope".

You can see in the picture how I used the envelope to even out the sax.



Quote:
Does the compressor actually negate the need for dynamic vocal processing?
Yes and no. It actually does smooth things out so a volume envelope is not needed, but there are also times when little parts
can use a little more adjustment, and that's where the envelope also helps.
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Old 12-28-2018, 10:32 AM   #21
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Thanks Tod.

Great advice on take volume envelope. I realize it possible but would not have been my first thought, but makes total sense...

I do have both the CLA-2A and H-Comp compressors from waves so will work on incorporating those into my mix. I have seen that there are several videos on YouTube about compression for beginners, so as you suggested prior I will be checking into it and learn more about it.
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Old 12-29-2018, 04:23 AM   #22
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Default OK, check it out! I am a singer and this is my first attempt at harmonizing with myse

Hey, Guys!

I just finished experimenting with harmonizing with myself for the first time and here it is!

There is the Lead Vocal and 3 Backup vocals. I did not copy and paste anything. I recorded each and every part individually. I feel it make harmonizing sound more authentic that way!

It has been told to me in the past that I have been too heavy on ther REVERB, so, I would like to know about that because I went and turned down the REVERB as much as I could and still be able to notice it.

In my case I am not trying to be a PRO singer. I am just srewing around having some fun making music!

https://audiomack.com/artist/bayside_studios

.
.
.
.
.
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Old 12-29-2018, 11:09 AM   #23
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Hi Steven, you've got a very nice voice, and the reverb sounds good.
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Old 12-29-2018, 11:16 AM   #24
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Thanks, Tod:

I appreciate that. Now, it's off to another song!

I had fun doing the harmony parts too!
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Old 12-30-2018, 10:52 PM   #25
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Default How do I manage volume on my tracks and prevent 'Hissing' ??

I was just wondering ....

It seems like no matter what plugin I use to manage volume of my tracks that somehow I end up with some 'Hissing' sound and that hissing sound is registering on my tracks.

What's the secret to getting BIG volume and NO Hissing sound?
(Like if I turn the gain up too high or if I use a volume plugin it does the same if I boost the volume too high.

I learn best watching videos so I can see it being done.

Any referrals to a video that talks about how to do this properly?
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Old 12-31-2018, 06:23 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjs94704 View Post
I was just wondering ....

It seems like no matter what plugin I use to manage volume of my tracks that somehow I end up with some 'Hissing' sound and that hissing sound is registering on my tracks.

What's the secret to getting BIG volume and NO Hissing sound?
(Like if I turn the gain up too high or if I use a volume plugin it does the same if I boost the volume too high.

I learn best watching videos so I can see it being done.

Any referrals to a video that talks about how to do this properly?
Is it room noise that’s causing the hiss?

If you have a portion of the track which has only this background noise - e.g. for Vox, a portion of the track before the vocal comes in - ReaFir can be used to build a noise profile, which can then be subtracted from the track.

Kenny has a good video on this. IMO, it’s important to follow his tip on adjusting the noise profile level to avoid impacting the vocal. I find that I need to lower it from the generated level, so that it reduces background noise but doesn’t completely eliminate it.
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Old 01-03-2019, 12:12 PM   #27
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I have been using the project template that Tod set up for me and it is working great!
See previous posts in this thread....
Thanks again, Tod !!

QUESTION ABOUT SETTING THE PROPER LUFS:

I just want to clear things up on this topic.

In a Dana Tucker video he uses the SWS Loudness to analyze and set the LUFS of ALL tracks to -15 because he said something about a part of Reaper that adds 3 db to make it -18 for the song output.

In a Kenny Gioia video he puts the Youlean LUFS meter plugin on the MASTER track and adjusts the LUFS there....

In my case I have pre-recorded tracks for my music that I am singing to.

To me, these are clearly polar opposite approaches to this issue.

One thing I did notice was I tried Dana Tucker's method and adjusted the LUFS directly on my vocal track, doing that created a very undesirable HISSING sound which was what Tod's project he made for me took care of so it seems that doing that is moving backwards.

Just by making this statement leads me to believe that Kenny's method is preferred because it leaves the raw tracks alone and is only manipulating what is coming out of the MASTER track.

Do I have this right?
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Old 01-04-2019, 09:44 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjs94704 View Post
I have been using the project template that Tod set up for me and it is working great!
See previous posts in this thread....
Thanks again, Tod !!

QUESTION ABOUT SETTING THE PROPER LUFS:

I just want to clear things up on this topic.

In a Dana Tucker video he uses the SWS Loudness to analyze and set the LUFS of ALL tracks to -15 because he said something about a part of Reaper that adds 3 db to make it -18 for the song output.

In a Kenny Gioia video he puts the Youlean LUFS meter plugin on the MASTER track and adjusts the LUFS there....

In my case I have pre-recorded tracks for my music that I am singing to.

To me, these are clearly polar opposite approaches to this issue.

One thing I did notice was I tried Dana Tucker's method and adjusted the LUFS directly on my vocal track, doing that created a very undesirable HISSING sound which was what Tod's project he made for me took care of so it seems that doing that is moving backwards.

Just by making this statement leads me to believe that Kenny's method is preferred because it leaves the raw tracks alone and is only manipulating what is coming out of the MASTER track.

Do I have this right?
Hi Steven, I know nothing about Reaper adding 3dB or anything else, there must be a misunderstanding there.

Regarding the LUFS and the SWS Loudness analyzer, I only use that on mixed and mastered tracks, in other words finished
songs. I recently finished an album for one of my clients and when all the songs were done and mastered, I used the
SWS Loudness analyzer to make sure they were all right around -12LUFS, so that the songs were relatively close in volume.

I haven't seen the video, but what I think Kenny is doing, is using it during his mastering process, which is a good way
to do it. For example, say the limiter is ahead of the Youlean LUFS meter plugin on the Master FX track, then you could
simply adjust the threshold of the limiter to get the LUFS level you're shooting for.

I wouldn't worry about the raw vocal or instrument tracks as far as LUFS is concerned, that could ultimately mess up your
songs. Keep in mind, you use your ears, not some plugin to determine what the levels of your raw tracks should be.

What you need to understand, is that the -18dB thing is primarily used during the recording process. For example, while
recording your vocals. And the only reason for the -18dB is to avoid any clipping on the interface inputs. I personally
don't concern myself with -18dB, I just make sure to give myself enough room to avoid clipping. However, I've been doing
this for a long time, and a -18dB is a good "play it safe level".
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Old 01-04-2019, 11:29 AM   #29
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OK, the next piece of all of this for me is the MIC interface itself.
I have a PreSonus AUDIOBOX USB 96 interface pictured here.
I have a Behringer B-1 condenser MIC.

So, for the gain knob on the interface itself, is there a range it should sit for recording?

I could spend 1,000 hours adjusting stuff in Reaper, but, if the MIC isn't set right then things will never really work out very easily, right?

So far, I have been adjusting the gain knob towards the left of center.
And, I suppose a lot of this is subjective and as many have said before, depends on what sound I am trying to create, but something tells me that on this interface itself I should be adjusting, even if just a little bit to the right of center and then turning down the intensity of my REVERB or whatever in Reaper itself.

So, if you had this interface and MIC, what would YOU do with the knobs on here?
(As far as the MIC- I have the switch in front set in the center)

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Old 01-04-2019, 02:36 PM   #30
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UPDATE:

Mystery solved on the nagging 'hissing' sound I was getting when I armed my MIC for recording.

If you look at the previous post that has a picture of my B-1 MIC, you will see the switch on the front of it.

I have had it in the center position, but, by doing so I was introducing extra unwanted Db into the volume on the MIC before it ever got to the interface making it hard to manage. So, once I got hip to this idea and turned the switch to the far right, thus shutting off the extra Db it gave me a lot better control over gain staging the MIC interface. I find it amazing how either on hardware of the software that one little setting somewhere like this can dramatically change how thing sound!
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Old 01-04-2019, 03:38 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjs94704 View Post
UPDATE:

Mystery solved on the nagging 'hissing' sound I was getting when I armed my MIC for recording.

If you look at the previous post that has a picture of my B-1 MIC, you will see the switch on the front of it.
Actually I only see 2 switches on the front of your interface, one for the power (on/off) and one for the 48 volt power supply (on/off).

Quote:
I have had it in the center position, but, by doing so I was introducing extra unwanted Db into the volume on the MIC before it ever got to the interface making it hard to manage. So, once I got hip to this idea and turned the switch to the far right, thus shutting off the extra Db it gave me a lot better control over gain staging the MIC interface. I find it amazing how either on hardware of the software that one little setting somewhere like this can dramatically change how thing sound!
I assume you are actually talking about one of the knobs, but you don't say which one, is it the "Mixer" knob? You also
haven't mentioned whether you are using headphones or not, but I assume you are?

The "Mixer" knob is for adjusting the balance between Reaper's playback output and the direct sound of your vocal coming in
on the mic. This knob is for what is called "Direct Monitoring", and it's primarily used to prevent latency from the inputs,
whether they are instruments or microphones.

So assuming you're talking about the "Mixer" knob, if you put it all the way to the right, then all you will hear is Reaper's
output. This is okay, if number 1, you can also hear yourself sing, and and number 2, there is not enough latency in what
you are hearing, to bother you.

In regards to setting up you're interface Input knob, you need to set it according to what Reapers input meters are telling
you as you sing into the mic. One way is to sing very loud, the loudest that you would sing in the song. If Reaper's meters
hit zero, or close to it, then turn down the interface input until Reaper reads at least a -3.0dB while you are singing loudly.

Another way is the -18dB thingy. Sing normally into the mic and adjust the interface input until Reaper's meters read right
around a -18dB. This should give you enough headroom so that you won't clip your interface pre-amps.
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Old 01-04-2019, 08:13 PM   #32
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Here is the picture of the B-1 again with an arrow to the switch I was referring to. It has three positions.

When I put the switch either in the center or far left position it adds a certain amount of Db gain directly through the MIC itself. BUT, in the far right position it does not do that and makes normal function of the Presonus interface work as far as applying gain via the interface to properly adjust the recording level in Reaper.

By having it in the far right position I am able to reach and maintain a peak level of -18. In the center position where I had it, I was not able to accurately and maintain any kind of recording level.

When configured right it has been an awesome Microphone. I have had it for at least 10 years but just never got how to set it up right. Granted I have not actively been using it all that time...

It was this extra Db caused by being in the center position that was causing the 'hissing' sound. The instant I switched it to the far right position the hiss went away! Praise God!

I don't know how to read the specs of the Microphone, but here is the very short documentation.
https://static.bhphotovideo.com/lit_files/69385.pdf

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Old 01-07-2019, 10:04 PM   #33
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Default Just Another Shout Out to Tod for all your help!

Hey, Tod!

I took the project template that you modified that now has a REVERB track as part of it and have been able to begin putting it to work in a meaningful way!

I am still in a bit of a learning curve as far as seeing how it works with my pre-recorded music, however, the most significant thing it has done for me is dramatically reduced my workflow time in the context of the initial setup of a song.

I am able to quickly import my pre-recorded tracks, I am following your example and putting the instrumental track as the first tracks in line, routing them to the Sub Inst (Instrument) track followed by hiding the instrument tracks. at least in the mixer. BUT, I keep them visible in the track panel.

I then put the volume plugin on the Sub Int track to make sure the volume of the music does not exceed -18.
You had one REVERB track included in the original template. I decided I wanted a send REVERB track for a SLAPBACK delay, so all I had to do was duplicate the existing REVERB track and puit hte SLAPBACK delay on it and link everything together properly and doing all of this is making a HUGE impact for the better of my projects.

As you stated when you first posted this template that it gives me full control over my project. Boy, were you right! Surte, it is all about practice and trial and error, but it does not take long to pifk up on how things work!

Thanks so much!

With Gratitude,

Steven
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Come join me at: https://audiomack.com/artist/bayside_studios
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Old 01-08-2019, 11:24 AM   #34
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I then put the volume plugin on the Sub Int track to make sure the volume of the music does not exceed -18.
Hi Steven, I'm glad your getting along with everything.

I'm not sure why you're putting a "volume plugin" on the "Sub Inst" track, no need for that, and no need for it on any other
track. All you have to do is use the fader volume control on each track to adjust their volumes. The real volume control is
on the "Mast FX" track, it's the limiter.

1. Use the volume faders on the "Sub Vocal" and "Sub Inst" to get a balance between the instruments and your vocal tracks.

2. The "Sub Vocal" and "Sub Inst" are going to the "Sub Mast" track, so use the "Sub Mast" Fader to adjust the level that's
going to the "Mast FX" track.

3. The "Mast FX" track has a limiter that will control the overall output to the "MASTER" track.

Incidentally, I have used the "JS: Master Limiter" a lot, and it's great. However, Sonic Anomaly recently put out a free limiter
that's simple and works very well, I'm using it a lot now. You can download it from the link below.

https://sonic.supermaailma.net/plugins

Let me know if you have any questions.
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Old 01-08-2019, 06:50 PM   #35
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I'm not sure why you're putting a "volume plugin" on the "Sub Inst" track, no need for that, and no need for it on any other
track. All you have to do is use the fader volume control on each track to adjust their volumes. The real volume control is
on the "Mast FX" track, it's the limiter.
I guess I just got in the habit of using plugins and just have not touched the faders. So, I'll just have to readjust my ways a bit .... No big deal!

But, thanks for clarification on this as well as the limiter. I will check that out too!
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Old 01-09-2019, 06:10 PM   #36
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Tod:

In the template you provided I see that the REVERB and DELAY volume envelopes you included on each track are represented by a line, but, until now I have never seen envelopes represented this way and would like to know if there might be a video that demonstrates how to work with envelopes in this way..??

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Old 01-09-2019, 06:56 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjs94704 View Post
Tod:

In the template you provided I see that the REVERB and DELAY volume envelopes you included on each track are represented by a line, but, until now I have never seen envelopes represented this way and would like to know if there might be a video that demonstrates how to work with envelopes in this way..??
Hi Steven, the only reason I included those envelopes is because you talked somewhere about automating them. So I thought
I'd put them there so you could see what they were.

If you don't touch them then they will have not affect. Also you can click on the track envelope icon and easily take them off.

In all honesty, I don't recall ever automating the sends to the Reverb, although I'm not saying I never would or never did, and
there may be times that could be beneficial. But I think the way you are using reverb, it may not be very beneficial.

However, it would be good for you to learn about using automation, one way or another I use it almost every day.

I'm sure you've checked out Kenny's videos before, but the link below has a wealth of information.

https://www.reaper.fm/videos.php

This video talks about the types of automation that are easily available on your track envelopes icon.

https://www.reaper.fm/videos.php#Un719m_7pNc
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Old 01-09-2019, 10:43 PM   #38
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The only reason I can think of using automation for in my case is if I had a certain sound effect I wanted to apply to my voice only in a certain part of the song and turned off the rest of the time.

I understand the concept of automation and right now it is just a learning curve of how to use it, but, I am into how it can really enhance the overall sound of a song when used right....
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Old 01-16-2019, 11:15 PM   #39
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Default I'm just double checking my current template configuration with you....

I have been working with the latest template that Tod provided that has the REVERB as well as the DELAY track and 3 vocal tracks.

I have been working on getting the correct plugins on each track and not putting plugins on tracks that should not have them at all!

Just for clarity, here is a list of the track names I am looking at:
  1. Master
  2. Mast Fx
  3. Sub Mast
  4. Sub Inst.
  5. Sub Vocal
  6. Reverb
  7. Delay
  8. Vox 1
  9. Vox 2
  10. Vox 3

At the moment I have the following plugins:

Track 1: MEqualizer (Melda Productions - it has 6 bands)
Track 2: Event/Horizon Limiter
Track 4: CLA-2A (Waves Compressor) & MEqualizer (Melda Productions)
Track 6: MTurbo Reverb (Melda Productions)
Track 7: ReaDelay (Set as stock -vocal slapback) (Cockos)
Track 8: CLA-2A (Waves Compressor)
Track 9: CLA-2A (Waves Compressor)
Track 10: CLA-2A (Waves Compressor)

So, I'd appreciate anyone offering your opinion, are there any other plugins I should be putting on any of these tracks, or are there any of these that I should be removing?

I'm just wanting to be sure I'm not missing anything...
I look forward to your input on this .......
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Old 01-17-2019, 10:15 AM   #40
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Quote:
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I'm just wanting to be sure I'm not missing anything...
I look forward to your input on this .......
Hi Steven, it all looks good to me, and you've got some quality plugins listed there.

The only thing I might point out, if CLA-2A compressor settings are the same for each of the vocal tracks, then you could
put the CLA-2A in the "Sub Vocal" track FX. That would cut down on CPU, but if each one is a little different then they're
good right where they are.
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