Go Back   Cockos Incorporated Forums > REAPER Forums > newbieland

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-20-2020, 05:17 PM   #1
SFChuckLogan
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 11
Default Windows 10 64 bit Or Stay in Win 7 64 bit ?

I am getting back into to the DAW Audion Recording World and things have changed a bit.

As an old PT user everyone when I was using PT Stayed we all stayed at Win 7 64bit/. With the understanding that all updates are stopping for Win 7, I upgraded to Windows 10 64b, but as an IT professional I can say with certainty that Win 10 is Microsoft's attempt to gather meta data & activity data on ALL of their users, similair to Facebook.

I have software that monitors firewall out bound attempts by software package. Windows 10 is constantly taking up band width trying to send massive amounts of data back to Microsoft. This eats up internet bandwidth, and processor resources.

Is everyone using Reaper on Win 10, or are they holding at Win 7 64b? And if most are using Win 10, what are people doing to mitigate the op systems constant usage of internet band width and CPU usage?

Thank you
SFChuckLogan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2020, 05:32 PM   #2
heda
Human being with feelings
 
heda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Spain
Posts: 7,239
Default

Windows 7 will work faster in old hardware, but at some point you need to update to windows 10 for new hardware. Windows 7 also got the telemetry features installed in some of the updates.
I think in both you can disable or minimize a lot of it. Probably not everything. The only way is to go offline.. and have another computer for Internet. Linux would be the best if you are worried about it.

What firewall software do you use? Is there an open source firewall for windows? I haven't found any, there must be a good reason. I don't know if any software firewall could be really trusted, including the windows firewall of course. Once I blocked svchost, and it tries to connect to Internet all the time to many different IPs. svchost aggregates many different services under it and it makes difficult at least for me to know where the traffic is really going to. It's all a mess.
heda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2020, 07:08 PM   #3
Toasterbath
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 7
Default

During install of Windows 10, there are many questions it asks if you would like to participate in this and that. By default, everything is turned on allowing it to send all kinds of data back to the mother ship. I always turn everything off. Not that it's never going to send data, but at least I turned off what I can. If you have a pre-built PC, you can assume that all of it is turned on. Install Win10 yourself and you know that you turned it off.
Toasterbath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2020, 07:54 PM   #4
SFChuckLogan
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 11
Default Response to Heda's Question About Firewall Blocker

I am currently using Glasswire https://www.glasswire.com/ free version.
It's a little taxing on the processor, but its a very good start to get an idea exactly which software and how much activity there is.
SFChuckLogan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2020, 12:46 PM   #5
lerian
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 442
Default

One can also use this as a guide to speed up win10 - http://www.blackviper.com/service-co...onfigurations/

TinyWall is also a good lightweight firewall, basically just a better interface for win10 own firewall.
lerian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2020, 01:11 PM   #6
foxAsteria
Human being with feelings
 
foxAsteria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Oblivion
Posts: 10,255
Default

If you're concerned about privacy and data collecting, keep your machine offline. Alternatively, Reaper runs fine on Ubuntu and can even load VST's with the help of Carla, though some activation software like Native Access won't work.

The majority of the telemetry stuff can be turned off in Win10 as well. In particular turn off background apps and pretty much anything you find under "privacy" in PC Settings.
__________________
foxyyymusic
foxAsteria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2020, 07:45 PM   #7
grinder
Human being with feelings
 
grinder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 2,905
Default

I am using Windows 7 Pro
Our home has Windows ten
I will go forward with Windows 7 on my audio computer
Why
I am pretty much pleased with Windows 7 and what vst's I have and I have plenty
My music does not go over 40 tracks on the screen.
I plan to stop purchasing new programs.
I plan to knuckle down and work on my music and
avoid needing new gear (apart from Hardware!)
A side note many manufacturers in the Audio recording business are now going on the rent idea this will become the norm as they seek to sunbathe on the Mediterranean sands and while it is not my business I would prefer to own.
My gear thus far is running well aside from replacing my Orpheus if it goes belly up which I hope it will not it is a great piece of work.
I do have an emergency copy of an update to Windows ten on a flash drive....
Grinder

Last edited by grinder; 01-27-2020 at 02:35 PM.
grinder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2020, 04:01 AM   #8
uksnowy
Human being with feelings
 
uksnowy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: 6950 DK
Posts: 659
Default

I pretty much echo the feelings of many. I am sticking with Win 7 until this machine needs to be replace. I do run ESET NOD32 but I have still taken the machine offline and only connect when I need to update something. I would upgrade but that would be about a weeks worth of f**king about, so no. I think I have got two more years in the i7 laptop. When that needs replacing. I'll have to get a win 10 machine. I would go Linux if it was properly supported by the VST developers. But I have invested too much money in windows vsts. I know one can run them through WINE but that just adds another layer of complexity and processing.
__________________
REAPING HAVOC SINCE 2008
uksnowy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2020, 09:59 AM   #9
Larry Kriz
Human being with feelings
 
Larry Kriz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Elgin, IL
Posts: 184
Default

I'm on Windows 7 (Home) and planning on staying there as long as I can. I use Win 10 on my home laptop but that's just for general purpose stuff. I'm ok with it there. It hasn't hurt me lol. The forced updates on my laptop haven't ever rendered my laptop unusable.

It's a little odd to have stuff going on behind my back without any explanation of what's being changed or added. It's like that with my Office 365 licence too. Features are added without any prior advance notice of what's changing and why. I know I can go search for that stuff but really... I guess I'm old school. I like to pick and choose the features I want to add. This smacks of the old dumb terminal days. That's basically what our devices are becoming. Dumb terminals. Maybe dumb isn't the right word. But some days it seems dumb lolol

At the top of the food chain of excuses, I don't have to concern myself with a forced update that may, or may not, render the machine I use to conduct business on a daily basis... inoperable. So there's that. Also, my current DAW setup works perfectly with Win 7. I haven't quite figured out what advantage there would be to upgrading for no specific reason other than bragging rights. It used to be like that. I used to always be on the bleeding edge. Those days are long gone.

I know that at some point, I'll have to deal with all this but I'd like to prolong that agony as much as possible. Luckily, for people like me, companies like Cockos are happy to support systems going all the way back to Windows XP. I'll bet Reaper runs great on Windows XP. I miss XP. Some of my best running DAWs were XP based machines. Everything turned to shit with 64 bit (hey that rhymes lol).

It's companies like Waves that seem happy to abandon older OS users. Probably for no other reason than to keep the cash flow moving in their direction.
__________________
Reaper V6.19, Samplitude Pro X4 Suite, Cakewalk Sonar 8.5, Sonic Core XITE-1/Scope V5, Sonic Core A16 Ultra A/D converter, Windows 10 Pro 64

Last edited by Larry Kriz; 01-24-2020 at 10:40 AM.
Larry Kriz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2020, 08:43 AM   #10
CEART
Human being with feelings
 
CEART's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: LAITW
Posts: 176
Default

Hi, we all already know that some companies like Steinberg (Cubase)Avid ProTools, Zenaud.io (ALK)and others don't remind, dropped Windows 7 support for their most recent versions, and they did it BEFORE Windows 7 time line was fulfilled. IMHO this scorning disdain for WIN7 (supposedly and "strongly" based on technical or security reasons) has caused them to lose many followers, who have chosen to "convert" to Reaper, Studio One and others who continue to support W7 without sacrificing an apex of performance.

Honestly I don't believe the performance and power demands of many of those Win 7 dissidents does need Windows 10 to work. I think it is a mistake, despite the security issues that even can be compensated and solved, Windows 7 was and still is one of the best and most stable operating systems until now.

I have some doubts:

- Is there a list of audio software developers available that no longer support Windos 7?
- Why the vast majority of small, medium and large developers and companies still supporting Windows 7 even if Windows 10 is supposed to be "better"?
- Is the performance difference that Windows 10 over Windows 7 offers really big enough to discard Windows 7?
CEART is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2020, 10:25 AM   #11
toleolu
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 2,423
Default

There have been a number of posts on this subject lately, FWIW, my take on all of this is, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".

People who are happy with Windows 7 shouldn't worry about Microsoft support, it's support, or should I say, the lack of support, from a software developer or hardware manufacturer that will eventually force you to upgrade.

That day may never come, but knowing that day may come gives Windows 7 users the luxury of planning when and how they go about upgrading.

Start putting a little money away, start working on organizing your data on your current Windows 7 machine and when the day comes that you are forced to upgrade because of a new program or hardware device, buy a whole new rig, install a clean copy of Windows 10 on it, then run both machines in parallel as you begin moving from the Windows 7 machine to the Windows 10 machine.

Plan ahead so you can spend your time making and recording music instead of dinkin around with computers. That is unless you like dinkin around with computers which is OK as well.
toleolu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2020, 12:01 PM   #12
grinder
Human being with feelings
 
grinder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 2,905
Default

Excellent advice toleolu empower your place in recording performing audio with computers.

Grinder
grinder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2021, 07:43 AM   #13
SpiritOfMusic
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 4
Default It's W7 for me

I am so thankful that the Reaper developers have not abandoned us W7 users, many of us who have no intention of upgrading to W10. There appear to be far too many other DAW producing companies abandoning W7, although I'm sure there is no real reason to do so. Long may Reaper continue support older OS's and I will continue to support Reaper.
SpiritOfMusic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2021, 12:25 PM   #14
JamesPeters
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Near a big lake
Posts: 3,943
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpiritOfMusic View Post
There appear to be far too many other DAW producing companies abandoning W7, although I'm sure there is no real reason to do so.
I can imagine one potential reason.

Support staff will need to be fluent with various versions of the OS instead of "one version of Windows", including all the different steps for troubleshooting and configuring hardware and software related to the DAW. Windows 10 has been around long enough that some (younger) support staff may just not have experience with using the DAW software in Windows 7.

Also some audio hardware and plugins have support dropped for older versions of Windows. That leaves the DAW company's support staff with an extra burden of figuring out why (for example) "Cubase isn't working anymore" even if Cubase itself should still work in Windows 7.

This is one reason Cockos doesn't have to be as concerned. Most customer support happens on these forums, and lots of people with different backgrounds can help. I use Reaper in Linux for instance, and have used it in Windows XP, 7, 10, and OSX...with lots of different audio devices.
JamesPeters is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2021, 01:18 AM   #15
SpiritOfMusic
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 4
Default

JamesPeters: Many thanks for your reply.

Yes, there are the support and hardware/plugin compatibility issues as you rightly point out. However, if development & testing can still continue as it did once before on the older OS (there must be companies that still have this capability and there are in fact many users who still prefer to use W7), then instead of dropping W7 all together from the list of minimum system requirements, it could be stated that the software does in fact still work, but support for it has been withdrawn and that there may be associated hardware/plugin compatibility issues which cannot be avoided.

This may put off new users from using it on W7, but it means that existing/experienced users can still proceed with future upgrades if they want to without having to upgrade.

Thankfully, both Reaper & Bitwig developers manage to carry on and it is unfortunate that the majority of other developers have not.
SpiritOfMusic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2021, 08:29 AM   #16
JamesPeters
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Near a big lake
Posts: 3,943
Default

Windows 7 should be considered obsolete for most people anyway, at least anyone who uses the Windows-based computer on the Internet.

You're probably aware that Microsoft has dropped support for Windows 7, not providing security updates anymore. It's worth mentioning here though due to all the posts of people saying "I'm sticking with Windows 7!" and not explaining whether they understand that leaving a Windows 7 computer connected to the Internet has a relatively high security risk (whether for their sake, or anyone else reading this thread thinking about continuing to use Windows 7 on a computer connected to the Internet).

Given that some DAW software requires online license verification (sometimes periodically and not just during initial activation), or connection to the Internet to download updates in specific "software managers", or that Windows updates might be important for proper functioning of the DAW hardware/software, it's considered that people generally will be using the computer connected to the Internet. Perhaps Steinberg software requires online license verification, and that's one of the reasons for this.

If someone is choosing to keep the computer disconnected from the Internet, and doesn't update anything, then whatever works on it now is going to work in the future. That's not a problem. Update one thing but not another, and that can be a problem. Getting "offline" updates for software or the OS (even if possible) might be confusing for people. If a DAW company tech support has to walk someone through how to troubleshoot and update a computer that's not connected to the Internet, that can add a level of complexity they're not prepared to deal with.

New libraries for OSes require software to be written "to" them. Doing so often involves considering backward compatibility, and sometimes that's either not feasible or it's costly. Companies want to move forward and find themselves wondering when it's reasonable to drop support for older OSes. I have to say I'm actually surprised Cockos hasn't dropped support for XP by this point. Then again it's a development team of 2 people as far as I know, not a development team that continually changes (such as some other DAW companies). Remembering their guidelines for compatibility is probably easier since it's been the same 2 people for years.

Anyway it's hard to imagine a company saying "here's a list of requirements for our software" then providing another list of "it *should* work with this, but I guess that's up to you because we don't support it?" It's not exactly confidence-inspiring. People want to see that something is supported or not. It's not good enough to say "if you're an experienced user, you can make this work somehow". People don't know the level of experience that makes them qualified for that (some would presume they are knowledgeable enough when they're not, and vice versa).

Maybe it's easier for me to see the potential issues with this, since I've helped people with technical issues with DAWs on a few different OSes. Most people don't even provide enough info in their first report of a problem, leaving the support rep to "dig for it". I keep seeing posts on these forums which have basically no info other than "I get clicking sounds! It worked fine yesterday!" (Here comes a game of 20 questions, I guess?)

Also: Linux. Just do it.
JamesPeters is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2021, 03:33 PM   #17
ummagumma
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 32
Default

I am glad reaper still runs on W7. Thanks guys.

I keep my DAW offline, am using older gear that still functions perfectly fine, and I'd rather spend my time writing music than dealing with various updates that screw things up & chasing down incompatibilities.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it rings true for me.
ummagumma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2021, 05:00 PM   #18
grinder
Human being with feelings
 
grinder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 2,905
Default

I have just found out recently that my UAD Satellite seems to have no one to fix it so I am not going to replace it.
This thing about windows 7.
I have posted here twice I think.
My thoughts have strengthened on the subject.
I will only changed my OS when my current Computer gives up the ghost!

Time for a change then and there, meantime I am better off learning to use my gear and ears better and try to stop purchasing every plugin I think I might want which may or may not work with Windows 7!

Grinder
grinder is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:10 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.