Old 11-22-2017, 10:05 AM   #1
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Default v5.65pre16 - November 22 2017

v5.65pre16 - November 22 2017
+ Ruler: control+shift+drag on tempo markers adjusts tempo on both sides of marker
+ Ruler: display linear tempo transitions in the ruler
+ Tempo markers: insert first marker no longer defaults to linear transition mode
+ macOS: improve disk image window initial size on 10.13
# MIDI editor: respect preference to show/hide gridlines for project markers and regions
# Ruler: alwaus show gridlines for project markers and time signature changes while editing [p=1914477]
# Ruler: avoid situation where a single ruler label appears/disappears while scrolling
# Ruler: support copying a region at the same position [p=1914822]

Full changelog - Latest pre-releases
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Old 11-22-2017, 10:13 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edgemeal View Post
v5.65pre16 - November 22 2017
+ Ruler: control+shift+drag on tempo markers adjusts tempo on both sides of marker
I am almost crying of joy, but to make me actually cry give us the possibility to select several tempo markers (or all the markers in the time selection) and use the same two actions (control and control+shift) so that they keep their relative position. This would be a dream come true for people working in the film world!
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Old 11-22-2017, 10:19 AM   #3
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Now that time signature markers exist they should be able to exist at the same time position as a tempo marker. Currently we cannot drag a time signature marker under a tempo marker.

An action to add only a time signature marker would be great (window opens with TS checked and tempo unchecked)

A mouse modifier or an action to unlink the time signature from the tempo would be great.

Thanks for the hard work!
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Old 11-22-2017, 10:19 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edgemeal View Post
# Ruler: alwaus show gridlines for project markers and time signature changes while editing [p=1914477]
Why not tempo markers, and why not regions, too? Sure we get the upwards pointing arrow for regions, but moving region gridlines also makes sense. And is consistent
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Old 11-22-2017, 10:27 AM   #5
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BUG: Project attached. Using control+shift on the TS markers at 4.3 and 9.2 changes their bpm value without changing it's position. OSX 64
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File Type: rpp TS Bug.RPP (2.1 KB, 76 views)

Last edited by swiiscompos; 11-22-2017 at 10:35 AM.
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Old 11-22-2017, 11:54 AM   #6
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This issue is back, too much space lost above and below the tool bar.
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Old 11-22-2017, 12:01 PM   #7
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You can't really have it any other way once you add that second row for tempo/timesig markers.
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Old 11-22-2017, 12:02 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edgemeal View Post
# Ruler: avoid situation where a single ruler label appears/disappears while scrolling
thank you!!!
marking the thread as fixed https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=134677
it works perfectly now. almost 4 years since reported... my life is complete now.. I knew this day was coming
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Old 11-22-2017, 12:54 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swiiscompos View Post
BUG: Project attached. Using control+shift on the TS markers at 4.3 and 9.2 changes their bpm value without changing it's position. OSX 64
Thanks, fixing for the next build. The current build should be fine for tempo markers that do not have a time signature-only marker on either side.
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Old 11-22-2017, 12:59 PM   #10
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Trying to CTRL+SHIFT+drag.. no success sometimes
also the line that appears indicating gradual tempo, is over the text(decimal places) and over signature



it works well with the SWS action "SWS/BR: Move closest grid line to mouse cursor (perform until shortcut released)"
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Old 11-22-2017, 01:20 PM   #11
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Unlikely usage but if you make a Region small and then move or copy it, it disappears.



EDIT Oops sorry, just noticed this happens in 5.62 also, so nothing new here!

Last edited by Edgemeal; 11-22-2017 at 01:28 PM.
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Old 11-22-2017, 01:49 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edgemeal View Post
Unlikely usage but if you make a Region small and then move or copy it, it disappears.



EDIT Oops sorry, just noticed this happens in 5.62 also, so nothing new here!

just tested that here and don't see it... yes, very unlikely and I made a region and edited it way smaller than yours... have turn off snap to do this
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Old 11-22-2017, 02:02 PM   #13
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@schwa, thanks for the tempo draging function, that's kick ass! Cubase Time Warp, here we come!
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Old 11-22-2017, 02:11 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by heda View Post
Trying to CTRL+SHIFT+drag.. no success sometimes
also the line that appears indicating gradual tempo, is over the text(decimal places) and over signature
Could you post that project (without media or FX) please?
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Old 11-22-2017, 02:25 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
Could you post that project (without media or FX) please?
Yes. Here it is
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File Type: rpp gradual tempo.RPP (1.7 KB, 20 views)
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Old 11-22-2017, 02:27 PM   #16
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Quote:
+ Ruler: control+shift+drag on tempo markers adjusts tempo on both sides of marker
Any chance to see this implemented "the breeder way"? directly OVER items without need to insert a tempo marker before warping the grid

"SWS/BR: Move closest grid line to mouse cursor (perform until shortcut released)"

Is simple and ergonomic. it works as a charm and make tempo mapping easy as hell
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Old 11-22-2017, 03:40 PM   #17
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^^^ My thoughts also.
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Old 11-22-2017, 05:54 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edgemeal View Post
+ macOS: improve disk image window initial size on 10.13
This is still goofy for me. The window still opens as a square and the Applications alias is still not visible.

The strange thing is that instead of opening in a normal place on the screen, it always wants to open in the top right corner of the screen, but still a square and the Applications alias is still not visible.
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Old 11-22-2017, 05:56 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heda View Post
Yes. Here it is
I don't see this issue in that RPP:

Quote:
Originally Posted by heda View Post
the line that appears indicating gradual tempo, is over the text(decimal places) and over signature
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Old 11-22-2017, 06:51 PM   #20
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I don't see what heda says in his project either

it all looks proper, ..no line over text

However ...using control+shift drag on a given point I don't see any diff in the adjustment compared to just dragging with no modifiers....

am I not doing something correctly???
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Old 11-22-2017, 07:27 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRMJP View Post
This is still goofy for me. The window still opens as a square and the Applications alias is still not visible.

The strange thing is that instead of opening in a normal place on the screen, it always wants to open in the top right corner of the screen, but still a square and the Applications alias is still not visible.
is it still opening with the sidebar?
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Old 11-22-2017, 08:41 PM   #22
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I saved this one at the point at the end where the error is ABOUT to occur, as soon as you copy Region 4 to it's end to produce Region 5. Seemed like a good idea, but maybe the problem is introduced even earlier. Dunno.

It appears the problem is at the joint. (If I jiggle the segment or last point there before copying, it "pastes" an apparently identical/correct region. Not shown.)


I show a "paste" starting at bar 13 that apparently succeeds, then undo that [0:05-0:08],

Then "paste" at the end of Region 4 itself [0:10], This "paste" fails to produce a region with length of whole number of measures,

Then undo that to prepare to save[0:12].

I just zoom in a little at the end so you can see that I have lines like heda in the decimal places. Bonus. (But still no way to tell from marker lanes alone, that there are 2 points at the same position.)



PS, it seems a change occurred that made the errors occurring in pre 15, which seemed to be at the start of the region, go away, at least in the limited testing I have done so far. In those ones, the points within the region shifted as well.

Now the error appears to be at the end segment. Points remaining on grid otherwise in the region that has the error.
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File Type: rpp nov17pre16c-rjIII-saveas 2.RPP (3.0 KB, 17 views)
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Old 11-22-2017, 11:42 PM   #23
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Quote:
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is it still opening with the sidebar?
Yep, that's what different about it. Good call.

Here's a screen shot of the latest:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/n3s8z8t7yo...%20AM.png?dl=0
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Old 11-23-2017, 01:57 AM   #24
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Quote:
+ macOS: improve disk image window initial size on 10.13
On OSX 10.11.6 it now look this (see attached screenshot). Not an improvment IMHO, but YMMV.
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Old 11-23-2017, 02:27 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reno.thestraws View Post
Any chance to see this implemented "the breeder way"? directly OVER items without need to insert a tempo marker before warping the grid

"SWS/BR: Move closest grid line to mouse cursor (perform until shortcut released)"

Is simple and ergonomic. it works as a charm and make tempo mapping easy as hell
Yes please....
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Old 11-23-2017, 03:32 AM   #26
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Re-tweaking the macOS dmg for the next pre -- 10.13 really did a number on them .DS_Store files... sigh.
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Old 11-23-2017, 07:12 AM   #27
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Default Ouch!

Hi devs! 5.65pre16 has broken -badly - two of Breeder´s SWS actions on which I heavily rely for my workflow :

- SWS/BR : Freehand draw envelope while snapping points to left side grid line (perform until shortcut is released)

-SWS/BR : Set closest envelope point´s value to mouse cursor (perform until shortcut is released)

V5.65pre15 does not show the awful behaviour at all, so I´ll have to stick with it until this can be solved. This is simple : you assign those actions to shortcuts and, i.e., with the freehand draw one you see on pre16 that the envelope is completely messed at the moment you start applying it. On pre15 it works just fine. The same applies to the "Set closest point" one. Probably, other related actions could be broken, but those are specifically the ones that I use on a daily basis (I even comissioned them to Breeder, originally, due to the lack of a native freehand tempo drawing function).

Of course, this could lead to the discussion (stated in a thread of mine somewhere) about the need of a native freehand drawing on the tempo envelope, but clearly, beyond the technical aspects of such hypothetical implementation (or re-implementation indeed), I hope this scripted functionality can be back to work as usual, since its current state will harm my workflow in a considerable manner.

Thanks so much in advance!

Greets!

[EDIT] Excuse me if this is not the place to report about SWS, but since these actions cover some basic, missing functionality that I use on a daily basis, it´s a serious problem in my case.

Last edited by Soli Deo Gloria; 11-23-2017 at 07:19 AM.
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Old 11-23-2017, 07:22 AM   #28
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Hm, those actions work here.
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Old 11-23-2017, 07:28 AM   #29
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Really? And do they work smoothly, creating, i.e., a fluid envelope?
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Old 11-23-2017, 07:33 AM   #30
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Yeah!
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Old 11-23-2017, 07:33 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reno.thestraws View Post
Any chance to see this implemented "the breeder way"? directly OVER items without need to insert a tempo marker before warping the grid

"SWS/BR: Move closest grid line to mouse cursor (perform until shortcut released)"

Is simple and ergonomic. it works as a charm and make tempo mapping easy as hell
You can accomplish this by linking left-click mouse modifiers in the Ruler context with Breeder's actions.

(Unfortunately, these actions are not 100% compatible with the new timesig-without-tempo-change markers, and will fail if such a marker is immediately to the left or right. Hopefully SWS will be updated.)

Last edited by juliansader; 11-23-2017 at 07:40 AM.
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Old 11-23-2017, 07:43 AM   #32
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Let me show a couple of pictures to show the problem :

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/xj89rmxh9...cdK-gojxa?dl=0

They´re self-explanatory. Time signatures and tempo markers are combined randomly in pre16, creating cluttered and unpredictable envelopes that are, for me, unusable. Probably due to the new settings, in which case some of you guys can point me in the right direction to solve this (?)
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Old 11-23-2017, 07:48 AM   #33
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Ah you're using those commands on a tempo envelope? Yeah that is bound to create problems because grid size is constantly changing depending on the tempo value that is entered.


Actually, the problem seems to happen when you drag mouse right-to-left. It's perfectly fine when dragging left-to-right. Also if you try to overwrite current envelope, it gets worse (if you use "freehand draw envelope") - in this case I would use the "set envelope point value" action instead.


I was initially checking those commands on regular envelopes - where they indeed work great.
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Old 11-23-2017, 07:57 AM   #34
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As mentioned in the thread Allow time signatures with partial measures when timebase=time:

Quote:
Originally Posted by juliansader View Post
If the Timebase for tempo/time signature envelope is set to Time in Project Settings, the time signature dialog box greys out the option to "Allow a partial measure before this marker", and adds the message "(option disabled because project tempo envelope timebase is set to time)".

To insert such timesig markers, the user has to switch the timebase to Beats, insert the marker, and switch the timebase back to Time.

I do not see a reason why timesigs with partial measures should be restricted to Timebase = Beats. To the contrary, when I do tempo mapping, I am much more likely to be working in Timebase = Time.
In the new pre-releases, this help text ("option disabled because project tempo envelope timebase is set to time") has been removed from the Tempo/Timesig dialog box:

Previous versions (tempo envelope timebase = time):



v5.65 (tempo envelope timebase = time):


Preferably, the restriction on partial measures should be removed. However, if there is a technical reason why insertion of partial measures is not possible when timebase = time, the help text is useful to avoid user confusion.

Last edited by juliansader; 11-23-2017 at 08:30 AM.
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Old 11-23-2017, 08:11 AM   #35
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The linear tempo line is a nifty new feature!


Quote:
Originally Posted by heda View Post
Trying to CTRL+SHIFT+drag.. no success sometimes
also the line that appears indicating gradual tempo, is over the text(decimal places) and over signature
Another little bug:
* When only timesig markers are displayed, not tempo markers,
* and there is a timesig marker that also sets a tempo, with gradual transition,
the horizontal line is drawn all the way from the timesig marker to the rightmost edge of the screen.

Last edited by juliansader; 11-23-2017 at 08:30 AM.
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Old 11-23-2017, 09:50 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Ah you're using those commands on a tempo envelope? Yeah that is bound to create problems because grid size is constantly changing depending on the tempo value that is entered.

Actually, the problem seems to happen when you drag mouse right-to-left. It's perfectly fine when dragging left-to-right. Also if you try to overwrite current envelope, it gets worse (if you use "freehand draw envelope") - in this case I would use the "set envelope point value" action instead.

I was initially checking those commands on regular envelopes - where they indeed work great.
Well ED, the grid size changes are something with which I have learnt to live with, indeed. That doesn´t seem to be the problem here : what I see is that Breeder´s actions now insert time-sig only markers everywhere. Sometimes, although I´m not 100 % sure, they seem to turn tempo markers into time-sig ones (!). If you check the jpgs I attached above, in the second, normal example, the envelope changes the grid size effectively, but anyway the drawing has a coherence and shows predictable results when you draw. The messed example shows a totally unusable behaviour : time-sig only markers are drawn caotically here and there.

@ED : I haven´t been able to make the actions work fine in the tempo envelope from left to right, sadly. The mess is created the same...

Given all of this, I have some questions for you, guys, and the devs :

- Is there any setting, somewhere, that could fix this behaviour regarding Breeder´s actions?

- @Justin & Schwa : If what I ask for above is not possible, then is there any possibility to have this functionality back again with all these new improvements? I won´t be able to update until I find a solution to this, since for the kind of music I produce, fluid tempo editing is crucial. Basically, the ability in the tempo envelope to freehand draw and set existing point´s values to mouse cursor position while shortcut is pressed are an absolute must for me, and most probably, for many MIDI composers. Excuse me if this seems to be merely a personal request, but we´re talking about fundamental things to achieve a fluid expression in the MIDI production realm. Anybody who writes pseudo-orchestral music with Reaper and strives for a detailed production will probably realize, at some point, that the tempo editing functionality is incomplete in its native form right now. Breeder´s actions have covered this issue until now, but they seem to be completely unusable after pre16 (unless, of course, I´m missing some magic, hidden setting that can bring the solution). I could always report this to the SWS thread, but I really don´t know when the fix could arrive, so I´m asking here for help. Some native replacements for the actions, or a fix for the functionality will allow me to go on updating, as simple as that. Again, please, excuse me for the begging, but I have no other choice and I´m not usually prone to these kind of desperate requests...
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Old 11-23-2017, 09:55 AM   #37
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It's likely that the newly created separation of tempo and timesig markers created this change. SWS expects only combined tempo/timesig markers. Perhaps API also changed to reflect this, and the effect is that some SWS actions will be impacted.


So, this needs to be fixed on SWS side, likely. But, who's gonna do it, when Breeder is not around?
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Old 11-23-2017, 09:57 AM   #38
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Hence my desperate begging... . (I really, really don´t like to be doing this at all).



I´ll probably have to stick with pre15 until a solution is found... if ever...

Last edited by Soli Deo Gloria; 11-23-2017 at 10:05 AM.
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Old 11-23-2017, 10:06 AM   #39
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But wait, pre15 has the same divorce of tempo and timesig markers... and it doesn't happen there?
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Old 11-23-2017, 10:22 AM   #40
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It doesn´t happen, indeed... The second jpg I attached is from pre15, and I´ve just drawn a complex, freely-drawn tempo envelope and edited it with the "set value to mouse position" action, and it all works perfectly. Tempo editing in my current project is also fine with pre15... Strange, isn´t it?

[EDIT] : I draw a lot of tempo points, and in the middle I put a time-sig only marker. BR "set to mouse" action moves the adjacent tempo point above or below, hence moving with it the time-sig marker. All of this is achieved messing anything at all. So, the actions can effectively deal with the separation of tempo/time-sig markers, it seems...

Last edited by Soli Deo Gloria; 11-23-2017 at 10:30 AM.
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