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Old 11-10-2011, 09:00 PM   #1
gwok
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Default Kontakt extreme load times drag and dropping from OS

on osx here, kontakt is taking up to 2 minutes to load samples dragged from the OS browser, and sometimes freezes so long a haven't waited to see what happens. I've checked on a fresh DL of reaper with factory settings and same deal.

the strange thing is, I can drag files from reaper's media explorer - and once I've done that twice, to create two or more kontakt intruments, DnD from the OS then works.

I've tried plugin buggy mode, separate process etc etc

any ideas?

ohya, also tested in ableton with no problems
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Old 11-10-2011, 09:36 PM   #2
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vid and crash report

http://**************/clip/my-videos/585/4ib.mp4/

Last edited by gwok; 06-28-2012 at 12:36 AM.
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Old 11-11-2011, 01:01 PM   #3
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bump.
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Old 11-11-2011, 11:35 PM   #4
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I will bump this again for you.

I'm trying to assess how big a factor Kontakt is in making my life miserable. So threads like this are of interest to me. Sadly.

I'm on Windows 7/32. But one thing I know for sure is that K does not like running anywhere near the limits of available memory. Dunno if that would be a factor in what you're seeing.
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Old 11-12-2011, 01:44 AM   #5
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I run in 32 bit, so I am limited to 4 gb, but I don't thing that is the issue as I'm not running anywhere near that. As well, importing from reaps media explored works fine.

I haven't used kontakt extensively, though I do use it fairy often for light tasks, and haven't had problems generally. It is a powerhouse though so I am starting to use it more now. Generally I'm not dissatisfied with it's performance, and for the quirk to work ratio, so far Its acceptable

Really would love drag and drop from my os though

As for memory - ram I assume you mean, being the cause, though thats now low on my list of causes, I'll keep it on my list for sure

Btw, one thing for stability improvements I read was to disable multitude processing in vst mode....

Last edited by gwok; 11-12-2011 at 01:50 AM.
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Old 11-14-2011, 10:35 AM   #6
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bump.
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Old 11-15-2011, 10:52 AM   #7
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bump.
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Old 11-15-2011, 11:15 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwok View Post
Really would love drag and drop from my os though
Hi gwok,

I've never tried pulling in samples as you show in your video. Actually I didn't realize you could do that. Where do the samples end up in the Mapping Editor?

I've always used Kontakts browser to locate the samples and then drag them into the Mapping Editor. I can drag 50 or more wav files at a time and it's almost instant.

Tod
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Old 11-15-2011, 11:22 AM   #9
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well if you drag them into an empty space (no instrument) it'll automatically make a range from like c0 to c6 or somethin. THough if you drag onto the mapping editor of an instrument, then you can define the range by draggin up or down on the mouse pre-drop.

ya, dropping sample from kontakt's browser or Reaper's media explorer is right snappy, though from the OS browser, as you see, is failing. Personally I prefer to use my OS browser as much as possible, as all my locations on my system are right handy, and it's my central hub for everything....

btw, depending on your uses, kontakt's browser may be fine, if your using library instruments etc, or wave some nicely archived sample packs. Though making "sound effects" from scratch, and pulling samples in from many different directories would be a serious PITA from kontakts browser (for me anyway)

Last edited by gwok; 11-15-2011 at 11:28 AM.
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Old 11-15-2011, 04:40 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwok View Post

Personally I prefer to use my OS browser as much as possible, as all my locations on my system are right handy, and it's my central hub for everything....
me too.

By coincidence, see this post from a few minutes ago, 2nd para in partic.

I suspect this is more common that we might imagine.

http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...1&postcount=29
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Old 11-15-2011, 05:42 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwok View Post
Though making "sound effects" from scratch, and pulling samples in from many different directories would be a serious PITA from kontakts browser (for me anyway)
I just tried pulling waves into Kontakt in Reaper and your right. Strangely the first one I pulled in loaded instantly but the second one froze.

There are workarounds depending on just what you're trying to do with the sound FX. For instance you can load an empty nki, open the Mapping Editor and load the samples there from the folders. From there you can load each sample into it's individual group and then direct them to individual outputs. Also that way you've got the FX on individual Key(s). You can also save the groups to load in other nki files.

Still I don't blame you for trying to get Reaper and Kontakt to do it your way.
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Old 11-15-2011, 09:14 PM   #12
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Have you tried Kontakt in it's own process via firewalling in Reaper? Just in case that helps?
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Old 11-15-2011, 10:01 PM   #13
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Tod - for sure there are workarounds, and decent ones at that, though DnD should\was (according to some thread I remember) be supported

MBN - despite the fact that separate\dedicated process modes kill my latency\performance , I did check, as well as in buggy plugin mode, save vst state etc etc, with no success

btw DnD from the os to Kontakt works in:

Ableton
Numerology
Plogue Bidule
AudioMulch

and thanks to Tod it's confirmed on another system - btw windows or mac?
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Old 11-15-2011, 11:20 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marah Mag View Post
me too.

By coincidence, see this post from a few minutes ago, 2nd para in partic.

I suspect this is more common that we might imagine.

http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...1&postcount=29
ya, I much prefer to use my OS browser wherever possible. Most apps are just a tangle to get to directories quickly. Though I must say, the SWS resources is really shaping up to be an awesome Reaper specific archiver and database manager - not for audio files and such, but for project and track templates, fx chains (now these media slots too - though different application sort of), it rocks - now we just need those location bookmarks......anyway OT

back on topic, same behaviour in 64bit
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Old 11-16-2011, 05:16 AM   #15
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Default Komplete 8 in Reaper?

I'm planning on getting Komplete 8 pretty soon. And I would love for it work with R4, but now I'm worried. Is Reaktor alright with R4?

I'm watching this thread eagerly!
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Old 11-16-2011, 07:33 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwok View Post
and thanks to Tod it's confirmed on another system - btw windows or mac?
Win7 with 8gig although I was using the 32bit version with 4gig. I simply opened Reaper and loaded Kontakt from a track templet so memory had nothing to do with it.

I'll try it in standalone later today when I go in the studio.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bharath View Post
I'm planning on getting Komplete 8 pretty soon. And I would love for it work with R4, but now I'm worried. Is Reaktor alright with R4?

I'm watching this thread eagerly!
Hey bharath, Komplete should work fine fine with no problems. What we're discussing here is a rather unorthodox way of loading a sample and creating an instrument.
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Old 11-16-2011, 07:38 AM   #17
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What about disabling undo states for kontakt?
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Old 11-16-2011, 08:12 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musicbynumbers View Post
What about disabling undo states for kontakt?
I'll be in the studio shortly and give that a shot.
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Old 11-16-2011, 08:27 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musicbynumbers View Post
What about disabling undo states for kontakt?
Hey musicbynumbers, that worked. I unchecked minimum undo and loaded a half dozen wave files from a folder without a problem. Also they loaded instantly.

That seems to be the ticket gwok, at least on my Win7.
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Old 11-16-2011, 10:48 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post

That seems to be the ticket gwok, at least on my Win7.
no dice here
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Old 11-16-2011, 11:00 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
What we're discussing here is a rather unorthodox way of loading a sample and creating an instrument.
not out to start a debate, as I appreciate your assistance in sleuthing this out, though (personally) i wouldn't say this is unorthadox at all, I though it was par for the course to be honest.


Supossedly you windows guys even have drag and drop from Reaper's arrange view into kontakt iirc.

Like I say, not out to debate, I just didn't think twice that this was anything other than a completely normal thing to do.
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Old 11-16-2011, 11:41 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwok View Post
no dice here
Humm, sorry about that, as soon as I unchecked minimum undo they seemed to load fine. It was almost instant.

Quote:
not out to start a debate, as I appreciate your assistance in sleuthing this out, though (personally) i wouldn't say this is unorthadox at all, I though it was par for the course to be honest.


Supossedly you windows guys even have drag and drop from Reaper's arrange view into kontakt iirc.

Like I say, not out to debate, I just didn't think twice that this was anything other than a completely normal thing to do.
Sorry about this too, I didn't mean to make it sound like it shouldn't be done. Like I mentioned above, I'd never done it that way before. I've been using Kontakt from it's inception (when K2 first came out) and never even heard of it being done that way until your post here. That's why I mentioned unorthodox so please forgive me.
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Old 11-16-2011, 01:00 PM   #23
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hey man no worries, I aprreciate you looking into it -



as for you using Kontakt since it's inception and never having once tried to drag and drop from the OS - LOL - wtf - hilarious!
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Old 11-16-2011, 03:34 PM   #24
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@gwok - hey, this may seem random and unrelated, but are you connected to any kind of network? WiFi or Ethernet? I only ask because there was/is an issue in Pro Tools where draggin in media from finder into PT would take much longer than directly importing from the menu. Turns out network scanning etc when accessing files in that way was the cause of the bug.

I even had a problem with PT loading up any session taking up to 10 minutes when i had my iMac using WiFi, and changing to ethernet fixed it. Prob a combination of my router being funny and OSX checking the other shared computers causing issues. Try making sure you're not connected to any network or the internet, worth a shot and 1-2 mins to test but if you're not connected to any network then disregard! I only suggest because of the similarities in draggin over audio from finder.

I will test later today to see if i have the same issues as you anyway.

Cheers!
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Old 11-16-2011, 03:45 PM   #25
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just tested CaptainHook, a nice thought, but unfortunatly it didn't make a difference

tx
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Old 11-16-2011, 04:57 PM   #26
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Quote:
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as for you using Kontakt since it's inception and never having once tried to drag and drop from the OS - LOL - wtf - hilarious!
Absolutely true my friend, I'm not sure how many libraries I've made over the years but it's been quite a few and I've never seen it mentioned before in any of the regular forums I visit. That's why I thought it was a little unorthodox. Of course I might have missed it and I'm not sure I'll ever have a reason to do it this way but you never know.

One thing I will say is that if I had another program running (like LICEcap) then it would freeze even with minimum undo unchecked. However if I had no other software running it would load almost instantly.
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Old 11-16-2011, 05:17 PM   #27
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Quote:
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just tested CaptainHook, a nice thought, but unfortunatly it didn't make a difference

tx
Gwok, how much RAM is installed on that Mac?

Even with 32 bit version of Reaper it doesn't hurt to have more. I have 12GB in my iMac which lets me keep any/all programs running (firefox, gobbler, quickeys, dropbox, Clementine, Automap, izotope RX) in the background along with Reaper. All the programs get as much RAM as they want and usually leaves about 6GB of spare. OSX is greedy and 4GB is the bare minimum.

RAM is incredibly cheap these days. It cost only $60 to go from 4 to 12GB including shipping from the US. Check Amazon
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Old 11-16-2011, 05:31 PM   #28
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16 gb -
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Old 11-17-2011, 11:49 AM   #29
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16 gb -
good, I thought I saw 4GB mentioned somewhere above.
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Old 11-17-2011, 11:13 PM   #30
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no word from the devs here eh? hmm.......
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Old 11-18-2011, 01:12 AM   #31
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I just tested before doing the same thing in OSX and it crashed for me also. Haven't had time to test any further but just thought i'd let you know you're not alone.
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Old 11-20-2011, 11:25 AM   #32
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cool thanks man - now confirmed on osx and Windows -

now the question is, will there be fix?
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Old 11-21-2011, 01:53 PM   #33
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Hm I can drag and drop samples in to Kontakt 5 on OSX, and it works without problem here... any ideas why?
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Old 11-21-2011, 02:18 PM   #34
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hot damn

first, did you try dragging samples a few times? sometimes it'll work for 3 or 4 drags, but then eventually it locks up

also, maybe it's a permissions thing or something? or running as admin? i dunno

I'm on snow leopard, are you on Lion?

I;ve tried with the different VST setting (save state, buggy etc) all with the same result

maybe there's some Kontakt prefs, though i tweaked all those too with no improvement.

the question is, what is different on your setup, as so far everyone who's tried has got the lockup.

btw, i also tried a fresh install, reaper v3, and winows7, 64bit and AU with the same results - windows 7 seems to work most of the time, though i did get it to lock up a few times too

edit, im on konakt 4 - looking for upadte now

Last edited by gwok; 11-21-2011 at 02:47 PM.
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Old 11-21-2011, 03:48 PM   #35
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must be Kontakt5 that is the difference

unfortunatly, NI's Komplete upgrade scheme is almost as convoluted\retarded as the PT10 upgrade, so even if I did drop the $250 for a bunch of stuff I dont want, need, or already own, I'd have to wait for a boxed version (headslap), which is about 2 week minimum where I live.....(not that any of that has to do with this issue, besides how much of a PITA it is to go to K5 atm)

though, i wonder if the other posters in this thread are on K4 or K5
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Old 11-21-2011, 04:28 PM   #36
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I tried with K4. Will try v5 later today..
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Old 11-21-2011, 04:40 PM   #37
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Actually i was able to test K5 now. No crash, drag and drop worked fine and straight away (it didn't work first try with K4). I tried dragging in 8 different samples. No probs. Seems to be K4 indeed sorry to say.
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Old 11-21-2011, 04:56 PM   #38
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On my Win7 i5 it's almost instant but I just tried it with my old XP Intel 3.2gighz 2-gig ram and it took around 2 minutes to load. I loaded four samples and it didn't crash. Processor speed definitely makes a difference, maybe ram too. This is all with K4.

Heh heh, I inadvertently found something interesting. The samples I loaded were some of my own snare samples and of course it's spread out from C-1 to B7. I decided to play around with it a little and found that about 1-1/2 octaves above C3 (the root) it almost sounds like a cowbell. Down around C-1 it has a very good explosion type sound. With 16 layers and 8 Round Robins I might be able to do something with that.
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Old 11-21-2011, 06:14 PM   #39
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well ballz, what a burn

maybe there's hope for a little tweak still, as even though we've isolated it to k4, it's still specific to Reaper. As listed above, no other apps have problems with the same task. I know that doesn't necessarily imply Reaper has to address this, though if it was known WHY it doesn't work in k4 as opposed to K5, it might be a simple tweak

one can hope

Obviously one could merely point out that I could upgrade, and there would be little ground to stand on, except that it would be cool if it worked , and there are still quite a few osx Reaper users drag and dropping from their OS into Kontakt 4 - oh shit......
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Old 12-06-2011, 11:55 AM   #40
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I have the latest Kontakt from Komplete Ultimate 8.

Loaded it and Reaper on a brand new i7 laptop with 8 GB RAM.

Opened Reaper 64 and scanned for VST folder. Seriously took like 10 minutes to scan through the Native Instrument plugins for some reason.

Opened Kontakt 32 from the track FX button. It opened fairly quickly. Tried to drop Scarbee MM Bass into the editor and it hung. I eventually killed it with task manager.

Loaded Reaper 32 and opened Kontakt 32 from the track FX button. Same thing except it did eventually load the bass samples after a crazy long time.

Once it was loaded everything was cool, but seriously slow performance trying to load that up. Plus, I don't see any presets. The preset menu is like 2 pixels tall when I open it.
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