Old 05-20-2018, 12:30 PM   #1
mykrobinson
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Default Drum Editing Workflow

Curious about how some of you edit drums for tight timing. I have strong feelings about modern production and how folks want the drums 100% grid aligned, but at the same time, if you don't have the luxury of tracking the whole band at once, it is nice to have things lined up..

Anyways, here's my first real attempt at drum editing. We tracked my drummer in my meager home studio. He was very tight, but a few spots needed some love.

https://slack-files.com/TAJCJQQ74-FASLR6BDJ-e54091b72f


This took me quite some time, as I would section off a piece of music, group the drums in that section (11 mics used), use transient detection on the most important instrument, the manually slide a small piece at a time. Grouping ensured that all pieces in the vertical axis move together.

The results were FANTASTIC, and it doesn't seem noticeable to me at all, so long as your cross fades are shifted to the "right" place.

But this took me quite some time. Wondering what some of you do to do this faster? I like the results of doing this manually, but I feel it could be faster. May just take me some time to get used to the process.

Last edited by mykrobinson; 05-20-2018 at 12:31 PM. Reason: Link Edited
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Old 05-20-2018, 01:08 PM   #2
karbomusic
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I have strong feelings about modern production and how folks want the drums 100% grid aligned
That's the quickest way I know to suck all the groove/feel out of a recording, assuming it had any to begin with. I never use an automated process for it, I slip edit using alt-drag, and go section by section, and only move what doesn't sound feel right, regardless of what the grid says. I also split on both sides of what I slip edit as to not upset the feel of everything that comes after.

I haven't had a chance to listen to the track but what you'll have to do is listen to every track multiple times if automatic because anomalies/artifacts have a way of sneaking up and biting you long after the edits are complete. Also be aware that if the tune did have feel before, aligning to the grid has a wow factor at first but it often doesn't have staying power because exact divisions bore the listener with repeated listening due to thier predictability.
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Old 05-20-2018, 02:58 PM   #3
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bit hard to tell if there are artifacts when hearing the click track too but I think there's something off at 1:07 and 1:09.

the transition from fast kicks to trash cymbal at 1:26 feels unnatural

snare is glitching at 1:38. hard click at 1:48 and it starts to get worse from there
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Old 05-20-2018, 03:26 PM   #4
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bit hard to tell if there are artifacts when hearing the click track too but I think there's something off at 1:07 and 1:09.

the transition from fast kicks to trash cymbal at 1:26 feels unnatural

snare is glitching at 1:38. hard click at 1:48 and it starts to get worse from there
Good times Gotta crawl before you walk, i recon. I'll revisit these spots and take a look a bit deeper.

Definitely gotta get a better chair if I plan to sit at this desk for long
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Old 05-20-2018, 03:29 PM   #5
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snare is glitching at 1:38. hard click at 1:48 and it starts to get worse from there
Curious if you could expand on the "glitching" comment? He was playing ghost notes, and I have not shifted those. My guess would be less than stellar capture, but I am open to suggestions.




Thanks
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Old 05-20-2018, 05:24 PM   #6
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ignore if there's no edit there, it just sounded like a stutter to me where the exact same sound is on either side of the edit.
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Old 05-20-2018, 06:00 PM   #7
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@EpicSounds have you done a video on drum editing?
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Old 05-20-2018, 06:17 PM   #8
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Hey myk, to me it sounded pretty well lined up with the tempo, and wow, ha ha, that guys got quick kik drum feet.

Without hearing it in context with the rest of the band, it's hard to say how it works.

Did you put all the mic tracks into a monolith file?

I think Kenny has some good videos about doing this.
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Old 05-20-2018, 07:44 PM   #9
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Hey,

It would be wise to upload a version without the click track since it is harder to tell if something is off when you hear the click mixed with the drum hit, especially since they often (if not always) occur at the exact same time.

I didn't listen to it all but to me there is a pretty obvious glitch at 0:31.

I am starting to have to edit drums and I have to say it is a seriously tedious job. I will usually favor poor timing over an edit that can be heard. I have done a lot of editing on vocals and acoustic guitars, and that helps a lot in being able to tell if the outer world is going to hear it as an edit or an actual single take but now that I am working on drums I realize that my workflow is crappy and that I should seriously learn more efficient methods if I don't want to spend my whole life at this.

Nice drums performance though, not an easy one to get spot on timing-wise, IMO.
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Old 05-20-2018, 08:29 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Tod View Post
Hey myk, to me it sounded pretty well lined up with the tempo, and wow, ha ha, that guys got quick kik drum feet.

Without hearing it in context with the rest of the band, it's hard to say how it works.

Did you put all the mic tracks into a monolith file?

I think Kenny has some good videos about doing this.
What is a monolith file?
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Old 05-20-2018, 09:18 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by mykrobinson View Post
What is a monolith file?
You take all your tracks and audio items and put them into one multi-channel file. That way when you edit the item, you edit them all at once keeping all the audio in phase, or in the same position where they were recorded.

When you're all done you can explode them into their own tracks.

This is the best way to keep the integrity of all the mics together, and makes the editing very simple.
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Old 05-21-2018, 12:26 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by mykrobinson View Post
@EpicSounds have you done a video on drum editing?
Earlier this year I recorded several videos for URM Academy's Ultimate Drum Production course. Unfortunately that course is closed right now and that's the only way to see them.

My recent video on my toolbars hints at a function that is the foundation of my drum editing service "fast edit mode" and my video on advanced nudging has some more tools I use for drum editing. My video on setting up zoom presets is pretty important as well.

I'd say your technique is probably fine but you just need more experience and confidence with it.

Quote:
"This is the best way to keep the integrity of all the mics together, and makes the editing very simple."
really not a fan of that. Grouping the tracks works perfectly and there are times you need to ungroup for detailed editing.
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Old 05-21-2018, 01:50 AM   #13
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Check out Alex Wilkinson's video, he demonstrates technics for fast drum editing. Especially the second: https://youtu.be/y7rPJ5Q40lg?t=3m18s
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Old 05-21-2018, 04:54 AM   #14
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That's the quickest way I know to suck all the groove/feel out of a recording, assuming it had any to begin with.
Amen to that. Musicians aren't robots and the "groove" is in the small timing variances.

The thought of someone quantizing War or Funkadelic or Geroge Duke makes me want to puke.
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