New EuCon project

[benmiller]

just updated to a mac with M2 chip (from one with intel) and reaper 7, and the reaper_csurf_eucon.dylib crashes reaper, the moment i clic ok when adding it as a control surface. After that reaper crashes before it can start until i delete the reaper_csurf_eucon.dylib file.

I don't need it right away so no stress, but is this a known issue? if not any idea what i can check?
as i am typing i realise i don't have eucontrol installed yet. could that be the source of the issue?

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by benmiller

as i am typing i realise i don't have eucontrol installed yet. could that be the source of the issue?

Yes, you need to install EuControl first.

[made]

Hey Geoff,
I was wondering about the state of the Eucon implementation. Right now my S3 can only control Volume and Pan and Soft Keys. If I remember correct the old Eucon Beta was able to control EQ as well?
Now I only see generic parameters for EQ, Reverb and Dynamics, but they don't do anything.
Is there anything I can help with? Do we have to make a call for donations?
Thank you for all your work...

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by made

Hey Geoff,
I was wondering about the state of the Eucon implementation. Right now my S3 can only control Volume and Pan and Soft Keys. If I remember correct the old Eucon Beta was able to control EQ as well?
Now I only see generic parameters for EQ, Reverb and Dynamics, but they don't do anything.
Is there anything I can help with? Do we have to make a call for donations?
Thank you for all your work...

There has been very little ongoing interest in this project, unfortunately, donations included, so no new development is planned at this time.

One single donation wouldn't be enough to pick this up, there would have to be a substantial change in the monthly donation rate.

Sorry I don't have a better answer for you.

[Nick Morris]

Originally Posted by made

Hey Geoff,
I was wondering about the state of the Eucon implementation. Right now my S3 can only control Volume and Pan and Soft Keys. If I remember correct the old Eucon Beta was able to control EQ as well?
Now I only see generic parameters for EQ, Reverb and Dynamics, but they don't do anything.
Is there anything I can help with? Do we have to make a call for donations?
Thank you for all your work...

Unfortunately its been abandoned. Whats there is kind of working ok for some, but I would look elsewhere for control surface needs.

The whole ongoing development of these sorts of things with donations is NOT practical and nothing ever really gets finished. Participate and you'll have donated quite a bit of money over time for something that never gets you to where you want to be. Look for finished solutions to use/purchase

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by Nick Morris

Unfortunately its been abandoned. Whats there is kind of working ok for some, but I would look elsewhere for control surface needs.

The whole ongoing development of these sorts of things with donations is NOT practical and nothing ever really gets finished. Participate and you'll have donated quite a bit of money over time for something that never gets you to where you want to be. Look for finished solutions to use/purchase

Fair points all.

The only response I can offer is that it becomes even more complex when a one man shop like mine has to interact with a large corporate third party to get things done -- in this case Avid...

[made]

Oh, that's bad news...

Nick, I thought I bought a finished solution when I got my S3. It took Avid some time to make it a usable console, but now the Eucon Universe is very usable (in ProTools). Not sure what the alternative would be.
Not planning to get different controllers for each DAW :-)

Is there anything Eucon users could do? Shouldn't Cockos put in some money for this? Or is AVID holding back important info.
I'm sure Eucon users (including me) would pay for a "Eucon Option" in Reaper.

[Geoff Waddington]

I've reached out to Avid one last time, we'll see what they come up with...

[RobinGShore]

Originally Posted by made

I'm sure Eucon users (including me) would pay for a "Eucon Option" in Reaper.

I would absolutely pay for a Eucon option in Reaper, if it meant we got a fully featured Eucon implementation and continued support as new versions of Eucon are released, but additional sales/money doesn't seem to be a driving force behind Reaper's development and even if it were I'm not confident there'd be enough other paying users to make it worth the effort. Having watched Geoff tried to put something together multiple times over the years it's clearly no small task and the engagement from the user side (at least on this forum) has always been pretty low.

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

I've reached out to Avid one last time, we'll see what they come up with...

Eddie Jones, Avid's product manager for Eucon is very accesible and responsive on both Avid's forums (https://duc.avid.com/forumdisplay.php?f=135) and their official Eucon facebook group, might be worth trying to reach out to him through those channels if you have trouble getting a response elsewhere.

[dna598]

My perception of the avid controllers as pro tools outsider is that they are "becoming" open to control other daws.
I really like the look of that channel strip module. Looks kinda ideal. Unfortunately, the price is absurd.

[J Riley Hill]

Originally Posted by dna598

My perception of the avid controllers as pro tools outsider is that they are "becoming" open to control other daws.
I really like the look of that channel strip module. Looks kinda ideal. Unfortunately, the price is absurd.

Cubase and Logic have had good support for Eucon for a long time I think back before Avid bought Euphonix out. Avid said something like, "we are keeping this an open protocol" and have at times said that everything you can do with Eucon is open to other developers to implement in their software.

AFAIK this is the only other project to seriously try and implement Eucon in a DAW outside of those 3. And even in Logic and Cubase, it always seems like they aren't up to date with all the features and things Pro Tools can do with Eucon.... so it must not be very well documented or supported, or else you'd think other implementations would be better or other DAW's would have enabled support. It seems like it's been a real pain for Geoff to try and work on.

Anyway, it's a real shame because the Eucon protocol itself is awesome and it works soooo well with Pro Tools and Logic and Cubase, It's so high resolution and responsive and low latency, awesome for automation. I also think the standardized "EQ", "Dynamics" control thing in Eucon is great, and for plugins that support it, it's a great way of jumping around and controlling channel strips easily.

[afalout]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Fair points all.

The only response I can offer is that it becomes even more complex when a one man shop like mine has to interact with a large corporate third party to get things done -- in this case Avid...

@Geoff - if you dont intend to continue with it, would you possibly consider opensourcing the code as it currently stands? If nothing else, it could provide a starting point for someone in the future to run with it, but I wont be surprised if some of the very clever people on these forums start hacking it immediately...

Thanks
Andrej

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by afalout

@Geoff - if you dont intend to continue with it, would you possibly consider opensourcing the code as it currently stands? If nothing else, it could provide a starting point for someone in the future to run with it, but I wont be surprised if some of the very clever people on these forums start hacking it immediately...

Thanks
Andrej

Not a possibility.

Avid has strict NDAs etc., on their stuff.

[reded23]

Hi this is Eddie Jones the Product Manager for Control Surfaces at Avid. There's a number of things here. We did drop the ball last year because the emails were going to a QA guy and the engineer was only on cc and missed it. They are talking now though. Unfortunately Reaper wasn't designed for EUCON, and EUCON wasnt designed for Reaper, so getting acceptable performance is going to be hard. The EUCON SDK is well documented and been implemented by many (Apple, Steinberg, Merging, Adobe, Motu, NTP etc.) but that is not the issue here.
I have just had a meeting about this with our software team so maybe we can give it another go :-) Thanks Geoff for your patience!

[Trakz]

Originally Posted by reded23

Hi this is Eddie Jones the Product Manager for Control Surfaces at Avid. There's a number of things here. We did drop the ball last year because the emails were going to a QA guy and the engineer was only on cc and missed it. They are talking now though. Unfortunately Reaper wasn't designed for EUCON, and EUCON wasnt designed for Reaper, so getting acceptable performance is going to be hard. The EUCON SDK is well documented and been implemented by many (Apple, Steinberg, Merging, Adobe, Motu, NTP etc.) but that is not the issue here.
I have just had a meeting about this with our software team so maybe we can give it another go :-) Thanks Geoff for your patience!

Wooooooooooo!!!!! Watching this space closely.

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by reded23

Hi this is Eddie Jones the Product Manager for Control Surfaces at Avid. There's a number of things here. We did drop the ball last year because the emails were going to a QA guy and the engineer was only on cc and missed it. They are talking now though. Unfortunately Reaper wasn't designed for EUCON, and EUCON wasnt designed for Reaper, so getting acceptable performance is going to be hard. The EUCON SDK is well documented and been implemented by many (Apple, Steinberg, Merging, Adobe, Motu, NTP etc.) but that is not the issue here.
I have just had a meeting about this with our software team so maybe we can give it another go :-) Thanks Geoff for your patience!

Thanks Eddie, would be great to get as much as we can out of it, even if it's not ideal.

[Nick Morris]

Ok! crossing my fingers on this one.

[fakemaxwell]

Thanks for keeping up with this Eddie. Anything that improves Eucon performance is welcome, even if it doesn't get quite "perfect."

[PYM]

Originally Posted by reded23

Hi this is Eddie Jones the Product Manager for Control Surfaces at Avid. There's a number of things here. We did drop the ball last year because the emails were going to a QA guy and the engineer was only on cc and missed it. They are talking now though. Unfortunately Reaper wasn't designed for EUCON, and EUCON wasnt designed for Reaper, so getting acceptable performance is going to be hard. The EUCON SDK is well documented and been implemented by many (Apple, Steinberg, Merging, Adobe, Motu, NTP etc.) but that is not the issue here.
I have just had a meeting about this with our software team so maybe we can give it another go :-) Thanks Geoff for your patience!

Thanks a lot Eddy for this renewed support : as soon as there's some progress, lots of people will be very happy !

[Berg]

Originally Posted by reded23

Hi this is Eddie Jones the Product Manager for Control Surfaces at Avid. There's a number of things here. We did drop the ball last year because the emails were going to a QA guy and the engineer was only on cc and missed it. They are talking now though. Unfortunately Reaper wasn't designed for EUCON, and EUCON wasnt designed for Reaper, so getting acceptable performance is going to be hard. The EUCON SDK is well documented and been implemented by many (Apple, Steinberg, Merging, Adobe, Motu, NTP etc.) but that is not the issue here.
I have just had a meeting about this with our software team so maybe we can give it another go :-) Thanks Geoff for your patience!

Hi Eddie and thanks for this message, I hope to get the basic functions work soon into Reaper with my Avid S1 !

[studiosus]

Hi Goeff, Hi Eddie,

Yes, it would be great to get eucon and reaper working well together.
I have kind of half of my workload in reaper, the other one in protools. A lot of clients come with protools sessions. It's annoying not to get my eucon controlsurface working well with both worlds.
I'm considering to buy a second set of surfaces compatible with csi for reaper. But then I would need to change the physical surface a couple of times a day, not so exciting.

[spicytripe]

I had an older Eucon plugin installed (2014 I think?) and now I'm updating it because Reaper is running a bit slow with Eucon (like adding/removing tracks actually gives me the pinwheel and slow project loading times). I can't seem to find the original installation instructions for Eucon itself. Do I just put the new dylib into the UserPlugins folder and that's it? Select Eucon in CSI and leave Euphonix MIDI ports disabled under MIDI Devices?

Thanks!

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by spicytripe

I had an older Eucon plugin installed (2014 I think?) and now I'm updating it because Reaper is running a bit slow with Eucon (like adding/removing tracks actually gives me the pinwheel and slow project loading times). I can't seem to find the original installation instructions for Eucon itself. Do I just put the new dylib into the UserPlugins folder and that's it? Select Eucon in CSI and leave Euphonix MIDI ports disabled under MIDI Devices?

Thanks!

Yup, here's the page, with instructions:

https://stash.reaper.fm/v/42522/EuCon%20Exp.zip

[spicytripe]

Oh cool thanks, that's where I got the latest Eucon plugin. For some reason I can't get the new plugin to work. My Artist Mix briefly showed track information but then disappeared. However, in the limited time that it worked, it looks like it the functionality is limited to Vol and Pan. Is this correct? Because the older plugin (which was working, but slowed Reaper down a bit) was able to control Sends and Inserts as well.

Thanks again!

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by spicytripe

... it looks like it the functionality is limited to Vol and Pan. Is this correct? Because the older plugin (which was working, but slowed Reaper down a bit) was able to control Sends and Inserts as well.

Thanks again!

Yes, that is correct.

[mahasandi]

Thanks so much for implementing this. I have an mcmix euphonix that works
However i am getting fader resistance is there a setting that i need to change?

[mahasandi]

Well i only encountered that in a session with a single stereo track - when i added tracks it went away smooth faders again...

[henriknet]

for me on osx Ventura,
stable and highest reaction speed when creating new tracks

Eucontrol 2022.12.1.34
reaper_csurf_eucon.dylib from 02.10.2021
reaper_csurf_integrator.dylib from 09.10.2021

[spicytripe]

Originally Posted by henriknet

for me on osx Ventura,
stable and highest reaction speed when creating new tracks

Eucontrol 2022.12.1.34
reaper_csurf_eucon.dylib from 02.10.2021
reaper_csurf_integrator.dylib from 09.10.2021

Awesome thanks for sharing! Any lag when instantiating a plugin or creating sends?

[Berg]

Hi Geoffrey !

Hope you're doing well, I am just looking for what's news for this Eucon complement development into Reaper ? Could you tell us today what could change the deal for coming back to new implementations ? This is important to me as Reaper is my main DAW and I need to know if the Eucon is still a future possibility or not.

thanks !

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by Berg

Hi Geoffrey !

Hope you're doing well, I am just looking for what's news for this Eucon complement development into Reaper ? Could you tell us today what could change the deal for coming back to new implementations ? This is important to me as Reaper is my main DAW and I need to know if the Eucon is still a future possibility or not.

thanks !

Totally swamped with CSI work right now, will likely get a chance to look at EuCon in a few months, but it is not the top priority.

[Berg]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Totally swamped with CSI work right now, will likely get a chance to look at EuCon in a few months, but it is not the top priority.

OK, thanks. Let us know !