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Old 07-06-2024, 04:30 PM   #1
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Default Extremely sluggish UI (Win10, i9-10900k, RTX3060, 64GB RAM)

Hey there, experiencing an extremely sluggish UI.



My system listed above should be flying through this, instead I'm always struggling with like 5fps responsiveness on projects with many Audio items specifically.

MacOS is smooth as butter.

I noticed there's a connection between the Mixer and Arrange View redraw sluggishness -- notice the way higher framerate when Mixer is on. Notice the even higher framerate when I enlarge the mixer!




Please chime in if also experiencing this (I know there's a lot of us! It keeps coming up, but never centralized to one post). This feels like Windows 95, and I'm really trying not to catastrophize lol but it truly is like 5 frames per second. So disruptive And I just do not see this with any other DAW (I just tested 3 of them on the same machine), and not with MacOS Reaper at all.

Thank you! Happy to test always.
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Old 07-06-2024, 05:46 PM   #2
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does it happen always or when certain windows are open? eg midi editors, fx, etc?

what version of reaper? of 7.18, does 7.17 do the same? What about 7.0? 6.8x?

any scripts running? does a fresh portable install have the same issue?

if the project in question has fx, does bypassing all fx help? how about opening with all fx offline?

Last edited by Justin; 07-06-2024 at 06:05 PM.
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Old 07-06-2024, 06:40 PM   #3
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Will do all of the above. Just need a bit!

It is appreciated -- has been a longstanding thing that's in direct contrast to MacOS's buttery 2024 smoothness, on the exact same versions of Reaper.
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Old 07-06-2024, 07:28 PM   #4
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additionally:

if you set all media offline, does that speed it up?

where are the peaks and media files stored? are they all .wav files or are they compressed media?

the likely reason that the mixer being open speeds it up is that there are fewer pixels being drawn in general. if you show the mixer but in a separate window (e.g. on a diff monitor) I assume it would be slow, right?

what resolution is your display? is your macOS test a similarly large resolution?

also what audio device mode, blocksize, samplerate? if you have the audio device closed, does it perform significantly different?

Last edited by Justin; 07-06-2024 at 07:38 PM.
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Old 07-07-2024, 01:21 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin View Post
does it happen always or when certain windows are open? eg midi editors, fx, etc?
Always, especially when Arrange View is the Only thing on screen.

The sluggishness is mitigated when DOCKED Mixer/MIDI Editor are open, and proportional to how much screen they take up. If Mixer/MIDIEditor open UNDOCKED it does not have that mitigating effect -- the sluggishness remains.

Quote:
what version of reaper? of 7.18, does 7.17 do the same? What about 7.0? 6.8x?
This has been around for years, dating back to v6. Let me do a portable install of 6.8x and import my current config, so I can test this specific project in 6.8x. Note : can't find 6.8x on landoleet...

Quote:
any scripts running? does a fresh portable install have the same issue?
No scripts.

VANILLA portable install (7.18):
-blank project with no media items, smooth as butter
-above test project, sluggish like OG

IMPORTED-CONFIG portable install (7.18):
-identical to vanilla and OG

Quote:
if the project in question has fx, does bypassing all fx help? how about opening with all fx offline?
Bypassing all FX, no difference.
Offlining all FX, no difference.
Deleted all FX, no difference.

Creating a completely fresh project, zero effects, simply importing the same media, again no difference.

Cutting down the number of tracks in the project again mitigates the sluggishness. However, even with minimal tracks, there's still a sluggish "redraw" effect happening that isn't present on MacOS's instantaneous 120Hz refresh.
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Old 07-07-2024, 01:32 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin View Post
additionally:
Quote:
if you set all media offline, does that speed it up?
Yes! Seems related to drawing peaks?

I've noticed that it's even worse when importing 48k media into a 44.1k project.


Quote:
where are the peaks and media files stored? are they all .wav files or are they compressed media?
Peaks stored in alternate path : F:\REAPER Media\REAPEAKS
Media stored in F:\REAPER Media\Incomplete when unsaved, then kept with Project Folder with RPP upon save.

Everything in my test project is WAV 44.1 24bit.


Quote:
the likely reason that the mixer being open speeds it up is that there are fewer pixels being drawn in general. if you show the mixer but in a separate window (e.g. on a diff monitor) I assume it would be slow, right?
Yup, it's only when Docked that the Mixer/MIDI Editor mitigate the sluggishness.


Quote:
what resolution is your display? is your macOS test a similarly large resolution?
3840x2160, 60Hz, No Scaling.

Scaling doesn't seem to affect it.

And yup, my MacBook Pro is 2021 14" M1 fullres no scaling.

Quote:
also what audio device mode, blocksize, samplerate? if you have the audio device closed, does it perform significantly different?


Audio Device Closed makes no difference.
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Last edited by ferropop; 07-07-2024 at 01:38 PM.
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Old 07-07-2024, 01:34 PM   #7
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On the note about it being related to peaks ...

I noticed if you scroll most of the media "offscreen" and just leave a portion onscreen, it's much smoother. Again proportional --- if you zoom WAY into the peaks it becomes More sluggish.

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Old 07-07-2024, 01:39 PM   #8
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Also Melodyne ARA2 seems to really struggle with FPS. Again, only on Windows -- MacOS (same version) is running smooth 120FPS.
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Old 07-07-2024, 01:50 PM   #9
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Last tidbit here :

I use ZOOM TO MOUSE custom actions on Z/X as follows:



(and reverse for Zoom Out). These work so well they completely dominate my workflow of how to get around a project.


On Windows : you see the individual "Zoom Horiz"/"Zoom Vert" steps being executed. It's actually beneficial because your eye tracks the movement, but as things start to get sluggish these zoom actions suffer tremendously.

On Mac : it's so fast you barely see the steps -- it just zooms H/V fluidly to the mouse
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Old 07-07-2024, 01:52 PM   #10
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just trying to collect all the scenarios together that I've noticed suffering on Windows specifically, that all seem to be caused by the same behaviour.
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Old 07-08-2024, 05:44 AM   #11
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are you testing the same project on macOS? is the macOS computer of a similar resolution display?

is your F: drive a SSD? USB or sata or m.2?

Maybe exclude your custom actions for the purpose of testing. If some issue exclusive to the custom action then the subject of this should be “this custom action is slow” etc.
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Old 07-08-2024, 07:54 AM   #12
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FYI:
Older versions of Reaper can be found via scrolling down to the bottom of Reaper website... choose 'old versions'


https://www.reaper.fm/download-old.php?ver=6x

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Old 07-10-2024, 12:32 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dom64 View Post
FYI:
Older versions of Reaper can be found via scrolling down to the bottom of Reaper website... choose 'old versions'


https://www.reaper.fm/download-old.php?ver=6x

Thank you! Been using landoleet directly and wasn't able to find 6.x...this was helpful.
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Old 07-10-2024, 12:35 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin View Post
are you testing the same project on macOS? is the macOS computer of a similar resolution display?

is your F: drive a SSD? USB or sata or m.2?

Maybe exclude your custom actions for the purpose of testing. If some issue exclusive to the custom action then the subject of this should be “this custom action is slow” etc.
Yup exact same project. MacOS resolution is the native 14" MBP resolution (close to 4k).

F drive is a new SATA SSD.

And same thing when not using custom actions. Simple vertical/horizontal zooms/scrolls are obviously lagged in comparison to MacOS counterpart.
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Old 07-10-2024, 12:39 PM   #15
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I just bought a new Lenovo laptop on Amazon, just to test another Windows setup. It is smooth as silk when compared to my main studio desktop.

The laptop is 144Hz refresh, native 1920x1080 -- so those might account for the difference. But reducing it to 60Hz it's still super smooth. Reducing the Studio Desktop to 1920x1080 still has lag.

The main studio desktop is connected to a 4k TV through HDMI -- could that be a factor?


Thank you for investigating this Justin. There's a bunch of us struggling with this for years, even on the most robust systems.
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Old 07-10-2024, 07:11 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferropop View Post
I just bought a new Lenovo laptop on Amazon, just to test another Windows setup. It is smooth as silk when compared to my main studio desktop.

I dare say that this is the kind of thing that could make a person go crazy. Watching with interest.
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Old 07-10-2024, 08:09 PM   #17
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Tried different graphics drivers? Tweaking Windows FX and acceleration options?
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