Old 12-14-2019, 09:38 AM   #1
sproost
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Default Midi CC doesn't obey default curve shape

Hi,

when I record some midi and CC information, it seems the default CC curve shape isn't obeyed. See attached gif: when I insert a point, it makes it square, even though the default shape is set tot bezier.

This doesn't work the same as the automation envelopes.

Am I doing something wrong or is this a bug?

Hope someone knows, thanks
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File Type: gif midi curve.gif (53.6 KB, 97 views)
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Old 12-14-2019, 12:27 PM   #2
Eddy
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yes, I have posted about this recently with no responses. It either doesn't work or is obscurely hidden. As far as I can tell there are global settings at the top of the midi editor and track over-ride settings for each lane. Buy they dont work consistently and dont get remembered consistently between projects. Or maybe they do and there is a setting somewhere else yet again
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Old 12-14-2019, 12:32 PM   #3
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Ah, I hadn't seen your post yet although I looked. The forums are getting proper busy..

Midi settings not remembering and carrying over to other projects or between midi tracks is unfortunately a reality about Reaper's midi editor afaik.

For now I've made a little custom action shortkey that selects all CC events and turns them into a bezier. But it's yet another thing to remember..

Hope there's another, more sticking, way to make this work. (like this: https://i.imgur.com/UJ8aARc.png)

Last edited by sproost; 12-14-2019 at 12:41 PM.
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Old 12-14-2019, 12:35 PM   #4
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In the current released version, the default curve shape is respected when drawing (default click+drag) but not inserting (default shift+click or double-click). This should be fixed in the current development version, and 6.02 should be released in a couple of days with the fix.
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Old 12-14-2019, 12:38 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
In the current released version, the default curve shape is respected when drawing (default click+drag) but not inserting (default shift+click or double-click). This should be fixed in the current development version, and 6.02 should be released in a couple of days with the fix.
Ah, awesome!

Right now "the default curve shape is respected when drawing", but only if drawing in an empty space in the CC lane -- not when drawing in between points (as in the first .gif i posted).
Great it's getting fixed. Thanks for the reply.
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Old 01-29-2020, 04:06 PM   #6
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Default At the risk of necro-posting...

I have done a search on this problem, and this is the only post that offered a ray of hope.

It appears that despite what was discussed earlier in this thread, this problem still isn't fixed in 6.03, unless I'm missing a new setting in a MIDI menu somewhere.

Context:
I "write" my piece in Musescore, then export the MIDI file, in order to expose it to Reaper using these settings:

http://www.tightbytes.com/images/pub...Settings01.png

As I posted in NewbieLand (and I hate cross-posting, but I think I must have posted this issue in the wrong forum, as I had 65 views and no replies, i.e., too-hard-basket): in the MIDI Editor, in the 07 Volume MSB CC lane, I have the default CC curve shape set to Bezier. However, the CC curve shape shows up as Square. If I select all points and change it to Bezier, save the MIDI file, close Reaper and re-open it, it will have set the CC curve shape back to Square again.

http://www.tightbytes.com/images/pub...Settings01.png

http://www.tightbytes.com/images/pub...Settings02.png

Today, I have tried setting it to Slow start/end but it went straight back Square even before closing Reaper. It's like the setting only works while that MIDI Editor window is up. Saving the MIDI to disk does not preserve that setting.

Forgot to say... thank you to sproost for the suggestion of creating a recorded action: that will speed things up a fair bit!
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Old 01-29-2020, 08:34 PM   #7
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In Preferences > Media > MIDI, the defaults for "Create new MIDI items as:" and "Import existing MIDI items as:" are both set to "MIDI items (in project, recommended)" by default. If the media is in the project as a .mid file reference, as in your screenshots, CC curve shapes will not persist, because these shapes are not part of the MIDI spec -- there's no universal way to write them to the file. We should gray out all of the relevant menu items and actions when there is a .mid file reference open in the MIDI editor.
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Old 01-30-2020, 03:32 PM   #8
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Thank you, schwa... I'll change how I import my files. Thanks for that!
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Old 01-31-2020, 10:47 AM   #9
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Interesting. I had come across this one when converting all my old SMFs into Reaper & assumed it was either me doing something weird in the programming of the original SMF or having something that I couldn`t find set wrong!
Thanks for the explanation, Schwa!
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Old 04-11-2020, 09:16 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
In Preferences > Media > MIDI, the defaults for "Create new MIDI items as:" and "Import existing MIDI items as:" are both set to "MIDI items (in project, recommended)" by default. If the media is in the project as a .mid file reference, as in your screenshots, CC curve shapes will not persist, because these shapes are not part of the MIDI spec -- there's no universal way to write them to the file. We should gray out all of the relevant menu items and actions when there is a .mid file reference open in the MIDI editor.
I must be missing something because I'm still running into issue. My recorded pitch CC's are always square, despite my defaults being set to linear.
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Old 04-12-2020, 06:04 AM   #11
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Because CC envelopes are not part of the MIDI specification, recorded events do not include any CC curve information. If REAPER applied the default curve shape to recorded events, then playback would sound different from what you heard when you recorded the MIDI.
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Old 04-12-2020, 12:31 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
Because CC envelopes are not part of the MIDI specification, recorded events do not include any CC curve information. If REAPER applied the default curve shape to recorded events, then playback would sound different from what you heard when you recorded the MIDI.
I understand this, but is there any way to prevent this behavior? See gif.

I'm recording a few notes and even though the default curve shape is bezier, adding a point in the CC lane will make it square.

Thanks
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File Type: gif ezgif-1-ce8ef04be4a8.gif (62.3 KB, 38 views)
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Old 04-12-2020, 12:54 PM   #13
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The curve shape is attached to the event itself. If you add two or more events in a row with the mouse, you should see that the curve that immediately follows the new events is the default shape, but the curve that immediately follows a recorded event will remain square unless you specifically change that point shape, or change the shape for all points after recording.

This is consistent with how curves work on track envelopes, but we'll think about if it makes sense to add an option that would change both the previous and the current event shape when a new event is added.
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Old 04-12-2020, 02:37 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
Because CC envelopes are not part of the MIDI specification, recorded events do not include any CC curve information. If REAPER applied the default curve shape to recorded events, then playback would sound different from what you heard when you recorded the MIDI.
I don't totally understand the technical aspect of CC curves and how they related to recorded MIDI data, but when I go to adjust points in the envelope that I've recorded live, they are always square and it would seem like having an option to turn them into my default curve selection automatically after recording would be pretty ideal.

I would think an option to have recorded CC be set by the user (either independently of default CC, or to reference default CC) would be very useful. Speaking for myself, it would create a more expected/unified outcome, as I am expecting my default curves to ALL be linear. I find square to be rarely useful.

Last edited by explodingPSYCH; 04-12-2020 at 02:49 PM.
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Old 04-14-2020, 06:50 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
the curve that immediately follows a recorded event will remain square unless you specifically change that point shape, or change the shape for all points after recording.

This is consistent with how curves work on track envelopes, but we'll think about if it makes sense to add an option that would change both the previous and the current event shape when a new event is added.
Thanks, that's it.

I think it would make sense and I would really like this option. Selecting a point shape specifically is finicky.
I would also like this not in the last place because I agree with above post that the default square cc envelope is rarely useful.
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Old 07-11-2020, 11:37 AM   #16
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Adding to this, would love this feature. As it stands now (6.12c) when I draw in CC events the default curve shape is obeyed. however, when I record CC events in the shape defaults to square. if I'm understanding schwa's responses correctly the issue is that I'm using a midi controller to record in the CC's and because that controller is adhering to the midi spec, there cannot be a curve shape so the data is written with the square curve shape, which just means independent events with no relation to each other.

while this makes sense from a technical standpoint, in practical use I want the ability to edit the written CC data using my default curve shape. right now I just run an action after recording to force the shape to linear, but an option to do this by default would be very useful.

has anyone found a workaround for this yet?
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Old 07-13-2020, 08:01 AM   #17
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Is added in 6.12 dev0712:
+ MIDI: add option to apply default CC shape to recorded events [p=2270410]
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Old 07-24-2020, 09:06 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ericson View Post
Is added in 6.12 dev0712:
+ MIDI: add option to apply default CC shape to recorded events [p=2270410]
Yes! I'm loving this feature! This will save a lot of messing around for me.

One little issue with it so far though. Unfortunately when I turn it on, it applies the bezier shape to events recorded on CC64, (which is the hold pedal). Using the bezier shape on the hold pedal causes some strange behavior - i.e. the the hold effect cuts off earlier than it should thanks to the shape of the curve which is added.

Would love to be able to turn the "apply default CC shape to recorded events" setting on... with an exception of the hold pedal - or an exception for all of the on/off lanes.

Unless I'm missing something, I don't seem to be able to find a way to do this?
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