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Old 01-29-2020, 07:26 PM   #1
amagalma
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Default I think I have found the bug that causes Melodyne lost data! (FIXED)

Familiar with this? :





1) I made a simple test project. Just one track with one media item and Melodyne loaded on it as Track FX and did some edits. The audio file was in the same directory as the project file.

2) I set to automatically backup every 1 minute.

3) Added a track FX after Melodyne.

4) I was pressing Save manually and kept closing Reaper and re-opening the project to see when the bug appears.

5) The bug appeared and then I opened the faulty project and the last working backup in Notepad++ and compared the two files..


Guess what?
These are the only lines changed between them:

Code:
Faulty project:

<REAPER_PROJECT 0.1 "6.03/x64" 1580347453
FILE "2020-01-20_0125.wav"

Code:
Working automatic backup:

<REAPER_PROJECT 0.1 "6.03/x64" 1580347446
FILE "G:\REAPER RECORDINGS\2020-01-20_0125.wav"

The additional FX was added when the project timestamp was 1580347324. Which is 129 seconds and two automatic backups before the faulty project. I do not think that it has something to do with the bug.


Looking at the differences between the two projects:

1) As you see I happened to press Save 7 seconds after the automatic backup. I think it is probable that this triggered the bug. Manually saving very close in time with the automatic backup.

2) The file is a totally valid Reaper project. Melodyne's data is not corrupted!

3) The file path is referenced relatively in the faulty project and with the full path in the backup. Actually all automatic backups (I opened all of them) do not reference the file relatively as the original file does. Should it be like that? (This is correct since the audio file path is not any more in a folder residing in the same path as the backup file)

4) I opened the faulty project in Notepad++ and changed the file reference to the absolute path and... the project opened and Melodyne had all my edits! Which means:
IN CASE YOU LOST YOUR EDITS: open the faulty project with a text editor and reference the absolute path for all affected files. You will have your edits back!


So, the truth is that I have not found what causes the bug nor the faulty code, but I hope these observations will help the devs to fix the bug, and fellow Reaper users to get their edits back.

P.S. My backup references:


Project settings:
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Last edited by amagalma; 01-30-2020 at 07:30 AM.
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Old 01-30-2020, 02:20 AM   #2
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I CAN ALWAYS REPRODUCE THE PROBLEM

Reaper 6.03 x64, Windows 10 Pro x64 Version 1909

Steps to reproduce:

1) Open Reaper and drag an audio file inside
2) Load Melodyne and do some edits
3) Save the project without asking Reaper to Move or Copy the audio files
4) Make sure that automatic backups are set every 1 minute (see my settings in the previous post)
5) Open your file explorer and keep an eye to the backup folder
6) Just move around the edit cursor in the project - do not do anything else - and press Save (I did it via the shortcut) whenever you see a new automatic backup created.


I did this with a new test project. The bug appeared the second time I saved. The first time, after having seen the automatic backup created, the original project was still ok. As you can see in the timestamps (by comparing the differences of the texts of the faulty project and the working automatic backup), I manually saved 2 seconds after the automatic backup creation.

Code:
faulty project

<REAPER_PROJECT 0.1 "6.03/x64" 1580374871
FILE "2020-01-20_0125.wav"

Code:
Working automatic backup

<REAPER_PROJECT 0.1 "6.03/x64" 1580374869
FILE "G:\REAPER RECORDINGS\New Test\2020-01-20_0125.wav"


This is the test project folder:



And this is the automatic backup folder (/Backups):





Hope this helps!
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Last edited by amagalma; 01-30-2020 at 02:30 AM.
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Old 01-30-2020, 03:15 AM   #3
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Thanks a lot for your work!


To Clarify: Reaper has a bug that causes the use of relative paths instead of absolute paths for audio-files in the .rpp-file under some circumstances, right?
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Old 01-30-2020, 03:32 AM   #4
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No! There is a bug when using Melodyne ARA with Reaper that causes edits in Melodyne to be lost. We are trying to find under what circumstances this happens. And then the Devs will figure out if this is on Reaper's or Melodyne's part (or both).
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Old 01-30-2020, 04:09 AM   #5
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Thanks for the work amalgama, this is a really annoying bug.
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Old 01-30-2020, 06:47 AM   #6
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Thanks so much for writing this up. We are working with Celemony to try to figure out a solution!
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Old 01-30-2020, 07:26 AM   #7
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Great! Thank you!

Btw, why the automatic backups were done every two minutes (see pic above) whilst I had chosen every one?
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Old 01-30-2020, 02:31 PM   #8
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Yes! Thank you!
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Old 01-31-2020, 07:31 AM   #9
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Thank you very much for your time and effort to figure all this out. Can't wait for a fix!

Thanks for looking into this, Schwa!
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Old 01-31-2020, 09:09 AM   #10
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Had the same issue. I've sent this link to Celemony. Hopefully why will give a hand in solving the issue.
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Old 01-31-2020, 09:15 AM   #11
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Can you see if the +dev0131 build that was just posted improves this problem?

https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=230922
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Old 01-31-2020, 12:19 PM   #12
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Thanks!! Off to test and I ll report in the pre-release thread.
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Old 02-13-2020, 08:18 AM   #13
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I´m glad cockos is working with melodyne devs to solve this problem but I just lost 3 Hours of editing...and i am not happy.
Reaper 6.03, windows 10, melodyne 4.2.4.001 VST3 64 bits.
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Old 02-16-2020, 06:37 AM   #14
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I don´t know if this information would help but i´ve been testing melodyne ARA in cakewalk and it works great .
The way cakewalk deals with melodyne is using region FX. When you create a region Fx cakewalk analyses the audio and makes a copy on the disk of that audio with a different name. If you delete the region fx and create another region effect it duplicates again the audio. I guess that is it´s way of making sure melodyne will keep the right information on what is dealing with.
Auto save is enabled in Cakewalk and melodyne does not crash when opening the session again.
If i use melodyne in cakewalk in the insert effect method , like we always did back in the day before ARA, it creates a folder inside the project "Transfers" that it will use for the audio transfers.
I believe this method could solve Reaper problem in two ways. Organization with folders and crashing when using ARA. Could i be wrong ? Maybe.
like i said , just trying to give my input to solve this problem in Reaper, that is the DAW i use, not cakewalk.
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Old 02-20-2020, 07:39 PM   #15
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Is v6.03+dev0131 still the version to test the Melodyne/ARA fix? I'm working on a big project right now that got the document corruption issue, and I'd really like to avoid having to manually fix all the source paths if possible...
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Old 02-21-2020, 02:27 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arithmeticulous View Post
Is v6.03+dev0131 still the version to test the Melodyne/ARA fix? I'm working on a big project right now that got the document corruption issue, and I'd really like to avoid having to manually fix all the source paths if possible...
For big client works i wouldn't recommend , unfortunately, has Cockos still working on the bugs of using melodyne with ARA. I ´d go for the rewire option or the old type..transfer audio non-ARA.
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Old 02-21-2020, 04:58 AM   #17
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6.03+dev0215 [edit: now 6.04+dev0221] is the latest build with ARA improvements. Those changes haven't been tested enough to make it into 6.04 which should be released today. I would expect them to be in the next release, though.

Last edited by schwa; 02-21-2020 at 11:51 AM.
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Old 02-21-2020, 06:44 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
6.03+dev0215 is the latest build with ARA improvements. Those changes haven't been tested enough to make it into 6.04 which should be released today. I would expect them to be in the next release, though.
Great!
Did you check my post ?

https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...8&postcount=14
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Old 02-21-2020, 11:36 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
6.03+dev0215 is the latest build with ARA improvements. Those changes haven't been tested enough to make it into 6.04 which should be released today. I would expect them to be in the next release, though.
Ah, that's a shame. What kind of testing do you need for those? I use Melodyne a lot, and would be happy to lend a hand; this bug is driving me nuts :/
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Old 03-05-2020, 04:40 PM   #20
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thanks for putting in the work to figure this out. i haven't been able to fully test but i really hope its fixed. i posted about this months ago but was struggling to be to recreate but kodos to amagalma for making that happen and the devs for getting the fixes out

https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?p=2237536
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Old 03-06-2020, 08:06 AM   #21
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https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...6&postcount=22
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Old 04-03-2020, 02:32 PM   #22
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Hey all, hopefully at this point all the lost edit scenarios are squashed - but just wondering something:

Does Melodyne internally have any sort of alert/interrupt flag that would alert the DAW right as a reanalysis is happening, and allow the DAW the opportunity to either cancel or continue the action? This seems like such an obvious sort of behaviour when dealing with a destructive action like reanalysis that would potentially cause loss of hours of work (intentional or not).

Is this something that could be implemented? Even as simple as "The action you just performed will result in a Melodyne reanalysis - continue?". This would be most useful in an Undo situation...we're so spoiled in Reaper to be able to hit Ctrl-Z triggerhappily and have everything work out -- this whole situation has made me undo with extreme peril at every step, and an alert would be so useful.
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Old 06-22-2020, 01:34 PM   #23
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Hi,
I'm "happy" to discover this thread and specially researches made by amagalma.
Since i upgraded melodyne to v5 (assistant), i've lost hours of work.
It seems that the first time i open melodyne in a project, all edits are lost if i close reaper and reopen the rpp file.
Each time i reopen the project, new melodyne files are created in the separations folder because the wav files are analyzed again.
If i delete melodyne instance from the track and reopen it, edits seems to be kept.
i've contacted melodyne support, sent them the rpp and the wav file concerned but they didn't found anything suspect.
I'm gonna search now with the help of these informations to see if i can go on investigations.
I'm using v6.12c on a pC i7 16Go ram win10 Pro
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Old 06-23-2020, 07:01 AM   #24
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Hi,
after some tests, i can confirm that the first time i load melodyne in a project, data edits will be lost.
If i open the same project, delete melodyne from insert and reload it, edits will now be saved in rpp file.
I've kept the 2 rpp files, one ok and one corrupted.
With edit note i can compare them and see what Amagalma was saying:

"4) I opened the faulty project in Notepad++ and changed the file reference to the absolute path and... the project opened and Melodyne had all my edits! Which means:
IN CASE YOU LOST YOUR EDITS: open the faulty project with a text editor and reference the absolute path for all affected files. You will have your edits back!"


Edit:
No need to delete melodyne from insert when you open again the corrupted rpp file.
Juste save it again and now future edits will be saved.
Reference absolute path in the corrupted rpp file has no effect for me.

Last edited by Lau; 06-28-2020 at 04:19 AM.
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Old 03-07-2021, 07:47 PM   #25
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Here we are over a year later and this shit is still happening.

Tried changing source paths to absolute ones but my edits are still lost.

What's going on, Cockos?
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Old 03-07-2021, 09:09 PM   #26
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I've also come across a quirk and haven't tested it deeply enough, but I'll put it here.

1. Have a project crash, and open the rppbak
2. At this point you check everything and then Save As and either overwrite the original project, or save it as a new one. QUESTION -- do you check Copy Source Media to Project Folder or no?

What are the effects of this? Does Reaper auto-discover that the source media is already where it needs to be, or does it resave and overwrite because it's to the same project folder? Does that trigger Melodyne to reanalyse and discard edits?
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Old 03-07-2021, 09:50 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferropop View Post
I've also come across a quirk and haven't tested it deeply enough, but I'll put it here.

1. Have a project crash, and open the rppbak
2. At this point you check everything and then Save As and either overwrite the original project, or save it as a new one. QUESTION -- do you check Copy Source Media to Project Folder or no?

What are the effects of this? Does Reaper auto-discover that the source media is already where it needs to be, or does it resave and overwrite because it's to the same project folder? Does that trigger Melodyne to reanalyse and discard edits?
Good question. I can tell you how I recovered in this instance, maybe it will shed some light on that.

Immediately after finishing my Melodyne editing, I save a new copy of the .rpp file in a subfolder titled Manual Backups that I create within the main project folder. When saving manual backups, I use the action "File: Save copy of project as..." which isn't the same as a Save As (it doesn't give you the option to copy source media in the pop-up window).

In this case, my main project .rpp had lost its Melodyne edits. But when I opened up the manual backup in a new tab, the edits were intact. I tried copy-pasting the intact tracks to the main project tab, and a little ARA load window came up momentarily. But when I checked the edits, they were gone.

At this point, I went back to the manual backup tab and rendered the Melodyned items as new takes, cropped them as active takes, then copy-pasted those tracks into the main project. This time, the edits were burned into the items, so now I have the edited items in my main project.

It's kind of ridiculous that this is still a problem. But since Melodyne and REAPER can't be trusted to play well together, I highly recommend doing what I do and saving a copy of the project whenever you finish some Melodyne edits. At least then, you can recover your edits (presumably...unless something else goes wrong).
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Old 04-29-2021, 08:18 PM   #28
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Default about this...

Have you guy's tried opening the melodyne stand-alone app on the computer, after you open reaper? I was having this problem a few days ago. All my work in melodyne on the vocal track had disappeared. I opened the Melodyne stand alone app and all of a sudden everything appeared in reaper again.

Maybe you've tried this and it seem silly, but it actually worked for me. I hope it's going to work the next time it happens... It's just awful to loose hours of work, knowing that it might disappear again, even if i do it all again.
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Old 04-30-2021, 05:12 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jullifus View Post
Have you guy's tried opening the melodyne stand-alone app on the computer, after you open reaper? I was having this problem a few days ago. All my work in melodyne on the vocal track had disappeared. I opened the Melodyne stand alone app and all of a sudden everything appeared in reaper again.

Maybe you've tried this and it seem silly, but it actually worked for me. I hope it's going to work the next time it happens... It's just awful to loose hours of work, knowing that it might disappear again, even if i do it all again.
No, but I'll try that if I lose my edits again. Thanks
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Old 05-02-2021, 06:15 AM   #30
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Thanks for the tip jullifus.

You mean you opened your project and your Melodyne work on your vocal track had disappeared. You left your Melodyned track open and then opened the standalone version and could then see your Melodyne work seemingly magically appearing on the open track?
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Old 03-17-2022, 09:51 AM   #31
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Any update on this? I've had it happen twice now and it's painful.


EDIT: things I've tried:
- open standalone Melodyne, close it and then open the project
- open standalone Melodyne and leave it running while I open the project
- making a copy of the RPP file and replacing all the "FILE "Media"s with the complete path including the Media folder

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Old 03-29-2022, 09:00 AM   #32
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Default Are no longer safing

I was working the last few weeks with Reaper 6.5 and Melodyne 5 Studio.

Since a few days i never get the "ARA safe" notification/loading bar...

And I lose my Melodyne edits when closing the project. Before the "ARA safe" prompt came up every few minutes, it was almost annoying. I don't remember if it's since one of the last Reaper-Updates...

Is there something I can check?
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Old 04-19-2022, 01:26 PM   #33
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I also lost all my edits after a session crashed and I reopened it in recovery mode. Any clues?

They just reappeared after I opened a backup file. weird but working

Last edited by eaccin; 04-19-2022 at 01:36 PM. Reason: solved
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Old 08-27-2022, 10:01 AM   #34
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Default Melodyne changes lost

This issue occurs for me in every session unless I finish the song before closing and reopening enough times for it to occur. Needless to say it's maddening and ruins my experience with Reaper, I cannot afford to have to redo hours of tuning. The only workaround is to print my tuning, but that's not ideal because I like to be able to make adjustments and sometimes I move on to something else. Will there be a permanent fix? is cockos working on this problem?
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Old 08-27-2022, 10:21 AM   #35
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Still happening for me too.

I'm convinced it's connected to Razor Edits. It usually happens when doing this:



Ie duplicating a Chorus, but because the items have some lead-up area before the Chorus boundary (see circled area) a Split happens and this tends to cause lost edits at the beginning of the duplicated area.
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Old 08-27-2022, 10:24 AM   #36
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I believe I've lost edits when doing Region Duplications.

It's something about when a Split happens, which is the case in both my above example and when duplicating regions. When a Razor/Region doesn't completely encapsulate the item and a split occurs during duplication, something is going on.
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Old 08-27-2022, 10:26 AM   #37
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Keep saving regularly and changing the file number (file, 1 file, 2 file, 3 file,...) maybe so you can always go back to an earlier version if something goes awry.

That's what I was doing until I upgraded to the Studio version last birthday and, touch wood, no problems up until now.

Although I was fiddling with a project a couple of days ago and the vocal tuning disappeared. I shut it and when it said save I ignored this and reopened the project. The earlier "unfiddled with" version reappeared.

I don't know if this helps.
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Old 08-27-2022, 10:27 AM   #38
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I'll put this here because it's all Melodyne people reading -- I've been having MADDENING issues with crossfades not playing properly!

Especially with lots of splits/takes, the crossfades will randomly click/blip and sound like either a bad crossfade or none at all. If you hit stop and revisit the click/blip area, it'll play fine! If you let it keep playing then Some Other Random Crossfade will then click/blip! Stop and revisit that one, that That one is now fine!

In a project with potentially thousands of crossfades, this is lunacy

Devs is there some interaction with buffer settings and ARA/Melodyne integration not playing nice? Anything we can try? Something related to Anticipative FX?
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Old 08-27-2022, 02:22 PM   #39
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Do you mean to say the crossfade problems are due to using Melodyne, Ferropop?

I don't know if this is of any help but if I have several takes of a bass track, for instance, where there would be a lot of splits and crossfades as a result of switching from take to take, I then glue the finished track before applying Melodyne.
One thing is if you try to copy a good note to replace a bad note in Melodyne then it is impossible without gluing the entire track first.
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Old 08-27-2022, 05:43 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burnsjethro View Post
Do you mean to say the crossfade problems are due to using Melodyne, Ferropop?

I don't know if this is of any help but if I have several takes of a bass track, for instance, where there would be a lot of splits and crossfades as a result of switching from take to take, I then glue the finished track before applying Melodyne.
One thing is if you try to copy a good note to replace a bad note in Melodyne then it is impossible without gluing the entire track first.
Hi, yes it happens when using Melodyne on a track with lots of takes and splits.

It sort of defeats the purpose of ARA if we have to flatten the audio and lose access to the takes, so this is unfortunately only a workaround. But thank you.
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