Old 01-05-2018, 03:03 PM   #1
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Default OSC -> MMC script?

Has anyone written an OSC to MMC script?

It needs to just support play/stop and also very importantly to locate to a specific frame when stopped, so nudges work.

I've got an external app that supports OSC and I want to sync with REAPER but it ignores locate, so I can't use OSC for it.
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Old 01-05-2018, 04:38 PM   #2
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I'm interested in this kind of stuff and I already successfully did some OSCII-Bot scripting, but I fail to understand what you mean by "MMC" and by "locate".

-Michael
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Old 01-05-2018, 04:48 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
I'm interested in this kind of stuff and I already successfully did some OSCII-Bot scripting, but I fail to understand what you mean by "MMC" and by "locate".

-Michael
MMC is Midi Machine Control
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIDI_Machine_Control

Basically the issue is that just supporting transport operations such as play, stop, rewind isn't enough awlays. Sometimes you need to move the playhead to a specific place and have another app follow.

For instance using an external video engine app (many support MMC but not OSC). You want nudge operations to also nudge the video player when editing and playback stopped, not only watch the video in sync while playing back.

This is why 'locate to a specific frame' is necessary. So you can seek frame by frame.

So while nudging REAPER sends commands like these.

/frames/str ,s 0:01:02:00

But more typical transport are

/stop ,f 1
/play ,f 0

So to translate REAPER's OSC output into MMC midi messages would be very useful.
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Old 01-06-2018, 04:11 AM   #4
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I was trying to sync my video machine with Reaper. But unfortunately Reaper only sends Start and stop, no frame nudging or forward/rewind with picture. I guess as long as Reaper does not support this natively, a OSC -> MMC translation isn't possible.
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Old 01-06-2018, 05:03 AM   #5
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If Reaper does not send the appropriate messages via OSC or Midi, OSCII-Bot is out of luck.

But Reaper dopes feature additional interfaces, such as HTTP/HTML and "Beyond" (via OSC). Here an external program might be able to fetch the appropriate information via Network.

Of course a Reaper extension (DLL done in C) might be another option.

-Michael
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Old 01-06-2018, 07:59 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Stevie_ View Post
I was trying to sync my video machine with Reaper. But unfortunately Reaper only sends Start and stop, no frame nudging or forward/rewind with picture. I guess as long as Reaper does not support this natively, a OSC -> MMC translation isn't possible.
If you sync with MTC then that happens. Nothing is sent if you just move the cursor. MMC should work but reaper doesn't support it natively.

However I have checked listening to the OSC messages from reaper and it does seem to send a frame update when moving the cursor even when not playing.

So in theory converting to MMC goto/locate messages should work better than using MTC.

Moving the cursor in reaper when project stopped still produces frame updates in OSC.

Code:
06.01.2018 14:56:49 - [9000] /time ,f 3.15286
06.01.2018 14:56:49 - [9000] /time/str ,s 0:03.152
06.01.2018 14:56:49 - [9000] /beat/str ,s 2.3.31
06.01.2018 14:56:49 - [9000] /samples ,f 151337
06.01.2018 14:56:49 - [9000] /samples/str ,s 151337
06.01.2018 14:56:49 - [9000] /frames/str ,s 0:00:03:03
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Old 01-06-2018, 08:10 AM   #7
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I didn't know that, that sounds brilliant. I'm still hoping for a native MMC solution, since I'm using the computer keyboard to control the transport and OSC won't work for non MIDI devices.
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Old 01-06-2018, 08:17 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by _Stevie_ View Post
I didn't know that, that sounds brilliant. I'm still hoping for a native MMC solution, since I'm using the computer keyboard to control the transport and OSC won't work for non MIDI devices.
I'm not sure I understand. I've just checked that using the keyboard to scrub and move the cursor etc definitely sends the right OSC timecodes.

A native MMC support would be great, but it does seem possible to script this in the meantime.
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Old 01-06-2018, 08:49 AM   #9
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Perhaps my knowledge is too limited in the OSC area, but I had the impression, that OSC commands can only be sent by MIDI devices (OSCIIbot). It would be awesome, if we were able to incorporate the MMC functionality via a script! This would finally solve my video machine issues.
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Old 01-06-2018, 08:54 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Stevie_ View Post
Perhaps my knowledge is too limited in the OSC area, but I had the impression, that OSC commands can only be sent by MIDI devices (OSCIIbot). It would be awesome, if we were able to incorporate the MMC functionality via a script! This would finally solve my video machine issues.
OSC messages are just simple lines of text sent over a normal computer network. Not midi related at all.

But OSCII-BOT does allow creation of midi messages, so a converter seems possible.
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Old 01-06-2018, 09:04 AM   #11
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That would be awesome, are you able to pull off something like that?
Would love to help, but I'm new to OSC.
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Old 01-06-2018, 09:10 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Stevie_ View Post
That would be awesome, are you able to pull off something like that?
Would love to help, but I'm new to OSC.
OSC is much simpler than midi. Listening to commands on the network, here are some that relate to play and position status.

The format of each OSC line is <address> which is similar to a file path, then the <type of data>, then the <value>.

So this is an example of hitting play for a while, then stop.

Code:
06.01.2018 15:50:52 - [9000] /stop ,f 0
06.01.2018 15:50:52 - [9000] /play ,f 1
06.01.2018 15:50:52 - [9000] /frames/str ,s 0:00:01:11
06.01.2018 15:50:52 - [9000] /frames/str ,s 0:00:01:13
06.01.2018 15:50:52 - [9000] /frames/str ,s 0:00:01:15
06.01.2018 15:50:52 - [9000] /frames/str ,s 0:00:01:18
06.01.2018 15:50:52 - [9000] /frames/str ,s 0:00:01:20
06.01.2018 15:50:52 - [9000] /frames/str ,s 0:00:01:22
06.01.2018 15:50:52 - [9000] /frames/str ,s 0:00:02:00
06.01.2018 15:50:52 - [9000] /frames/str ,s 0:00:02:02
06.01.2018 15:50:52 - [9000] /stop ,f 1
I am currently trying to find out more about MMC midi messages, to know which are the appropriate ones to send.
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Old 01-06-2018, 09:53 AM   #13
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I've found some basic information on necessary midi messages for MMC here.

http://midi.teragonaudio.com/tech/mmc.htm

http://www.somascape.org/midi/tech/spec.html#rusx_mmcc

http://peterelsea.com/Maxtuts_advanced/Max&MMC.pdf
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Old 01-06-2018, 11:19 AM   #14
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MMC requires sysex midi messages.

Is that possible in OSCII-bot? Anyone know how? Do you just send two messages?
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Old 01-06-2018, 11:42 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrlimbic View Post
MMC requires sysex midi messages.

Is that possible in OSCII-bot? Anyone know how? Do you just send two messages?
Yep. The newest version of OSCII-Bot can send and receive SysEx.

See the OSCII-Bot documentation -> https://www.cockos.com/oscii-bot/oscii-bot-doc.html

(Receive in OSCStr. Send: just a string.)

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Old 01-06-2018, 11:49 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
Yep. The newest version of OSCII-Bot can send and receive SysEx.

See the OSCII-Bot documentation -> https://www.cockos.com/oscii-bot/oscii-bot-doc.html

What do you suppose is the problem with sending two messages ?

-Michael
Just wondered why it seems to assume 3 bytes for messages. The locate MMC command is 12 bytes.

In fact, one issue I can potentially see is that the MMC timecode for locate also requires the framerate encoded, but I don't see such an OSC message from reaper. So not sure how to get the info to translate that properly. Any ideas?

Hours and Type : 0yyzzzzz
yy = Type: 00 = 24 fps, 01 = 25 fps, 10 = 30 fps (drop frame), 11 = 30 fps (non-drop frame)
zzzzz = Hours (0-23)

Looking at the "goto/locate" message spec here..

http://www.somascape.org/midi/tech/spec.html#rusx_mmcc
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Old 01-07-2018, 09:50 AM   #17
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OK. I am going to have an attempt at doing this but am a total OSCII-bot newbie.

How do you give a script parameters, or let the user select relevant settings when running?

Mine is going to have to let the user select:

1. OSC port to listen on
2. MIDI device name / port to send to
3. frame rate to use for sending MMC timecode messages.

Ideally this would be as a UI
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Old 01-07-2018, 02:38 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrlimbic View Post
How do you give a script parameters, or let the user select relevant settings when running?

Mine is going to have to let the user select:

1. OSC port to listen on
2. MIDI device name / port to send to
<snip>

Ideally this would be as a UI
The easy way is to initially code test values into the script as hard coded part of the @input and @output sections.

When you get going with the EEL2 code you can probably add these as changeable from a GUI or read them in from a configuration file: it depends on the ability to have variables or literal values in the code. Since the code reference is not clear on this you'll need to try it out: see http://cockos.com/oscii-bot/oscii-bot-doc.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrlimbic View Post
3. frame rate to use for sending MMC timecode messages.
The frame rate as a variable is no problem: that will be simply be a variable in your translation code.
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Old 01-07-2018, 03:41 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrlimbic View Post
but am a total OSCII-bot newbie.
You always can ask here....

Anyway... Do you have some experience with programming (e.g. in C) ?

EEL (and the OSCII-Bot framework) does have some specialties (and the documentation is a bit sparse), but it is a rather "normal" programming language after all.

-Michael
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Old 01-08-2018, 08:19 AM   #20
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@mrlimbic awesome man! Looking forward to it! I wish I could help somehow.
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Old 01-08-2018, 08:54 AM   #21
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I'm actually going to try to do this as a JSFX.

It turns out I can get play state & position from a JSFX. Also position does update when not playing, so it should work. I've written a couple of JSFX before so it should be easier for me that way.

The advantage of doing it as a JSFX is you get your parameters added to a UI automatically. No need to build one.
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Old 01-08-2018, 09:15 AM   #22
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That's even better! And to sync the two machines, we could add the JSFX to the master output?
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Old 01-08-2018, 09:18 AM   #23
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That's even better! And to sync the two machines, we could add the JSFX to the master output?
Yes. The routing will be much easier for the user to decide how they need it as a JSFX. Send it wherever you need from reaper.

I'll have to add a drop down for various frame rates as I don't seem to be able to get the current project frame rate from the JSFX api. Only position in seconds.
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Old 01-08-2018, 09:22 AM   #24
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Awwww, that sounds awesome. I can't believe it, a dream comes true, I can finally sync Nuendo to Reaper!
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Old 01-08-2018, 11:39 AM   #25
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Won't happen. ReaScript cannot access midi ports directly. But, it's still doable with oscii-bot.

Something like this:

@output midi_out MIDI "your_midi_port__exact_name"

function mmcSend () (

deviceID = "yourID"; // you should know what this is
command = "\x02"; // Play command, according to specs?
strcpy(mmcCommand=#,""); // clear mmc variable
strcat(mmcCommand, sprintf(#,"%s%s%s%s%s", "\xF0\x7F",deviceID,"\x06",command,"\xF7"; // construct (concatenate) final string from small strings
midisend_str(midi_out, mmcCommand); // send string to the device

);

Now, call this function from somewhere in your code. From @midimsg, @timer or from @oscmsg. I don't know.
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Old 01-08-2018, 11:43 AM   #26
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Won't happen. ReaScript cannot access midi ports directly. But, it's still doable with oscii-bot.
It doesn't need to access midi ports directly. It just generates the midi and the user can route the track midi somewhere sensible using a hardware output on the track.
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Old 01-08-2018, 12:03 PM   #27
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If you don't mind using an extra track in your default project, this might be a solution.
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Old 01-08-2018, 01:42 PM   #28
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Quote:
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Won't happen. ReaScript cannot access midi ports directly.
He speaks of JSFX and not of ReaScript.
JSFX can use the Midi devices with normal Midi routing. I do this very excessively. If you want to send midi to another application you can use a loop midi device.

AFAIK, also ReaScript can access a (singe) Midi Device: the "virual keyboard". Same can routed to the input of a track and from there to a midi output device.

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Old 01-08-2018, 02:13 PM   #29
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Eagerly waiting for this..😀😀😀
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Old 01-08-2018, 04:40 PM   #30
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Damn. I've just discovered a reaper bug in JSFX API.

Reaper is reporting still being in the play state while it is actually paused.

That is creating problems for my new plugin.
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Old 01-08-2018, 04:47 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
He speaks of JSFX and not of ReaScript.
This is exactly why I mentioned an extra track in the default project for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
-Michael
+Jackson

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Old 01-08-2018, 06:13 PM   #32
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Basically my plugin works now unless you pause the project (enter key) - then it goes crazy.

However if you only use the stop/start key (space bar) it all works as expected.

I can't really do anything about the pause bug until cockos fix the api bug.

Someone else confirmed it so I have reported it in the bug forum.
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=201727

BTW I tested against the two very nice external video sync apps here below..

Video Slave (which has some great ADR features)
https://non-lethal-applications.com/.../video-slave-3

Mitti
https://imimot.com/mitti/
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Old 01-08-2018, 06:55 PM   #33
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That’s still great news, though! Any chance to test the plugin?
I hope we will see a fix from Cockos, soon.
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Old 01-09-2018, 09:36 AM   #34
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That’s still great news, though! Any chance to test the plugin?
I hope we will see a fix from Cockos, soon.
I'll put my plugin in reapack later today after tidying it up and adding other frame rates. It probably won't do 29.97DF at first. Only ND will work.

Justin responded but not great news. I don't think I can get pause working properly. So I hinted at maybe supporting MMC locate natively. Fingers crossed.

https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...94&postcount=3
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Old 01-09-2018, 11:44 AM   #35
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I'm also hoping, that Justin and schwa will take care of MMC, or a native Reaper to Reaper sync method, like VST System Link for Steinberg products.

I know this might be a bit convoluted, but to circumvent the pause issue:
wouldn't it be possible to do the following?

- create a cycle action
- put a Reaper pause command 1st
- then 2nd, add a custom script that sends the corresponding sysex MMC message for pause
- assign it to your pause keys on your keyboard

Would that work?
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Old 01-09-2018, 11:55 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Stevie_ View Post
I'm also hoping, that Justin and schwa will take care of MMC, or a native Reaper to Reaper sync method, like VST System Link for Steinberg products.

I know this might be a bit convoluted, but to circumvent the pause issue:
wouldn't it be possible to do the following?

- create a cycle action
- put a Reaper pause command 1st
- then 2nd, add a custom script that sends the corresponding sysex MMC message for pause
- assign it to your pause keys on your keyboard

Would that work?
That's a very interesting idea. Override the pause function. It may well work. It will depend on whether the ability to send the locate command is disabled or not that way. I'm not sure if this is possible but worth a try.

BTW A native custom sync method like steinberg's won't be that useful unless other apps out there also support it. They pretty much all assume MTC for playback, MMC for locate while no playback.
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Old 01-09-2018, 12:34 PM   #37
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That's a very interesting idea. Override the pause function. It may well work. It will depend on whether the ability to send the locate command is disabled or not that way. I'm not sure if this is possible but worth a try.
Alright!

Quote:
BTW A native custom sync method like steinberg's won't be that useful unless other apps out there also support it. They pretty much all assume MTC for playback, MMC for locate while no playback.
Yes, that's true. My mindset was: if it's too complicaed to incorporate something like MMC, then I might as well settle for a Reaper native solution and switch to Reaper on my video machine, too.
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Old 01-09-2018, 03:14 PM   #38
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The “MMC locate" plugin is now in my mrlimbic reapack repo.

https://github.com/mrlimbic/reascrip...ster/index.xml

Apart from the pause issue it seems to be working for me with Video Slave 3 and Mitti demos.

XJadeo doesn't support MMC locate yet but I have requested it.

Limitations: Drop-frame timecodes are not yet supported, only Non-drop timecodes.
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Old 01-09-2018, 07:11 PM   #39
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Just checking it, but no matter what setting I use, I get always 24 frames. Tested with Nuendo and Video Slave.
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Old 01-09-2018, 07:20 PM   #40
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Just checking it, but no matter what setting I use, I get always 24 frames. Tested with Nuendo and Video Slave.
Yeah there's a bug in handling the frame rate drop down. Most of the values are broken. Some seem to be one before it. Other default to 24. I actually tested with 24 originally so oops.

So for 25fps you need to select 29.97DF. I'll fix it tomorrow!
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