Go Back   Cockos Incorporated Forums > REAPER Forums > REAPER General Discussion Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-29-2021, 08:44 AM   #41
xpander
Human being with feelings
 
xpander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Terra incognita
Posts: 7,670
Default

You got it Jon, that's what I meant.
xpander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2021, 01:21 PM   #42
bolgwrad
Human being with feelings
 
bolgwrad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: On my arse in Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 2,053
Default

If it's a Reaper plugin you want, couldn't you experiment (I haven't yet) with ReaPitch on your bass track, and some laptop speakers? ReasPitch can generate any audible harmonic you like.
__________________
www.sachetsofrelish.com
bolgwrad is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2021, 01:17 AM   #43
bigjoe
Human being with feelings
 
bigjoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 323
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bFooz View Post
Could you explain this a bit more? Lovend definitely generates low frequency harmonics and is more like a low shelf than a resonant HPF (checked with pink noise and also in PluginDoctor). But I do not completely understand allpass filters, so maybe I am missing something.
Sorry for being late, but i had quite a few nightmares to deal with :P

I analyzed lovend when i understoog what's doing and, definitely, it does not generate any harmonics in a different way of a standard saturation tool.
You can check it out, just throw a 1kHz sine, or even a 8kHz sine and you still see harmonics, so my conclusion is that the saturation is not the "bass enhancer" at all.
Is just generic saturation on top of a resonant shelf (yes, i made a mistake in the previous post) with a couple all-pass filters or something in this ball park.
And it's kinda obvious if you train you ears to tell if there's pre-ringing (it's pretty audible on bass frequency, since transients seems to be sort of "dealyed").

I'll share a preset for ReaEQ which mimics the 80hz settings of Lovend so you can experiment.
I'm not telling Lovend is a terrible plugin!!! i'm only saying i really don't like that kind of preringing artifact which is a side effect of this method.

Then, yeah...it's free, so...

EDIT: Missed the part about all-pass filters.
Those filter are just meant to rotate the phase of a signal around a certain frequency, altering in a certain amount the frequencies around the center (the Q determines the "zone" altered by the rotation).
This rotation can lead to some effects like breaking signal symmetry (increasing or decreasing the peak value while maintaining the same RMS) in fact you can even use all-pass filter to fix asymmetric waveforms (some mastering engineers do this when needed, to obtain a lower peak level).
Also, if heavy rotation are applied in the same spot things start to get weird since the impulse response start to change and phase is also related to time.
So some frequencies comes in earlier than other and this is how pre-ringing appear.
Be aware that also linear phase eqs lead to some pre-ringing but for very different reasons, mostly based on how they have to deal with impulse response.

Sorry for being long, but i think that's a fascinating subject, i may have made mistakes because i'm always learning, but i think that's kinda correct

Cheers
Attached Files
File Type: fxp Lovend 80hz.fxp (232 Bytes, 119 views)

Last edited by bigjoe; 12-01-2021 at 01:30 AM.
bigjoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2021, 01:48 AM   #44
bFooz
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Slovakia
Posts: 2,588
Default

Thanks for the explanation and for the preset! I'll look into it more.
bFooz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2021, 08:20 AM   #45
bigjoe
Human being with feelings
 
bigjoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 323
Default

By the way it's kinda different from RBass (quite a lot actually).
But like other said RBass is not a subharmonic generator, we can consider it a "bass enhancer" but what it does involves allowing bass frequencies to be heard on small speakers (wich is the opposite of a subharmonic generator).

But resonant HPF based enhancer can do a decent job on this purpose (since they resonate at higher frequencies), even all-pass based echancer can give something to a small speaker (mostly because of the dislocation of attack transient and mid portion of the envelope in response to the very low frequencies being stretched a bit).

In the meanwhile, just out of curiosity i tried to analyze RBass (i really never did before).
And i found there's no magic, it's really simple in reality.
If you want to recreate what RBass does just follow these steps (in this example i'll go with the 80hz default setting in Rbass):

- insert a clean digital EQ (ReaEQ is good for this), leave it alone for the time being.

- insert a multiband saturation tool with just TWO bands and set the crossover at EXACTLY 80hz.
Set the first band with a forgiving algorhythm (i use fabfilter Saturn on "gentle saturation" setting) and turn off saturation completely on the second band (the higher one).
You can also use the JS crossover and use wathever saturator you like.
From my analysis no need to search for even harmonics, rBass generate all the first three in the series in descending order of magnitude, so even a slight touch of any saturator capable of that should do the trick (MSaturator from Melda on soft2 setting should be good and free). Be sure to compensate the output level if gain increases

- Once saturation is set and ready to go just go to the EQ and put a PEAK band CENTERED at 80Hz,in ReaEQ give it a bandwidth of 1.3 and a gain of +2.5dB

- Add a second PEAK band and center the frequency at 40Hz (half the crossover frequency) and CUT -1dB

Done, this should null A LOT with the most beloved setting of RBass (80Hz, -24dB)

To boost the bass just add gain to the FIRST peak band anc CUT the second by the same amount (kinda...there's a relationship between, but since RBass bell shape and behaviour is a bit complex is hard to say without further investigation).

For the RBass 0dB setting things are a bit different just because of the bell shape that ReaEQ can't replicate very well.

That's the EQ setting for the default 0dB RBass:
1st band: 80hz, BW:1.5, gain +16dB (THAT'S A LOT!)
2nd band: 30hz, BW: 0.38, gain -11.5 (had to shift the frequency because of the bell shape)

To change the frequency just change the crossover frequency AND both the EQ bands frequency.

That's all, maybe some good JS programmer can come out with something useful and less messy than this plugin chain, but this is what i found and it sound very similiar to RBass.

Cheers and sorry for the loooong post
bigjoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2021, 11:56 AM   #46
Jorgen
Human being with feelings
 
Jorgen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 5,465
Default

I like the Waves' RBass, but find that the Lovend mentioned here has a pleasing sound on the stereo bus if needed. Just put it on there, without moving the controllers. And listen. It's subtle but it's there. Works well for folk-rock and acoustic stuff.
Jorgen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2021, 02:34 PM   #47
xpander
Human being with feelings
 
xpander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Terra incognita
Posts: 7,670
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjoe View Post
In the meanwhile, just out of curiosity i tried to analyze RBass (i really never did before).
And i found there's no magic, it's really simple in reality.
Thanks for your tests Bigjoe! I happen to have Saturn, so I must try that at some point.
xpander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2021, 11:11 AM   #48
clepsydrae
Human being with feelings
 
clepsydrae's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,409
Default

Renaissance Bass is free for 48 hours: https://www.waves.com/account/free-r...devvon-terrell

Waves account required, and Waves Central to activate.
clepsydrae is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2021, 05:19 PM   #49
Trogdor
Human being with feelings
 
Trogdor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Niagara
Posts: 159
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by clepsydrae View Post
Renaissance Bass is free for 48 hours: https://www.waves.com/account/free-r...devvon-terrell

Waves account required, and Waves Central to activate.
I just picked this up. Awesome, now I don't have to buy it as I was thinking about it but hoping I could get it free as it seems Waves always gives away free plugins all the time.
Trogdor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2022, 03:25 PM   #50
bladerunner
Human being with feelings
 
bladerunner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Kent, UK
Posts: 4,846
Default

Here is a genuine alternative that's very cheap and actually more flexible than Maxxbass/Rbass.

Soundspot Halcyon. I totally forgot about this plugin hiding in my folder. You can apply saturation to a given frequency area and gently blend it in. If you know where to affect the frequency spectrum you can get a very similar effect to the Waves algo.

https://www.soundspot.audio/download...-audio-plugin/
bladerunner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2022, 07:04 PM   #51
richie43
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 9,090
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bladerunner View Post
Here is a genuine alternative that's very cheap and actually more flexible than Maxxbass/Rbass.

Soundspot Halcyon. I totally forgot about this plugin hiding in my folder. You can apply saturation to a given frequency area and gently blend it in. If you know where to affect the frequency spectrum you can get a very similar effect to the Waves algo.

https://www.soundspot.audio/download...-audio-plugin/
Good one! I totally forgot this, too! I bought it long enough ago to not know when.
__________________
The Sounds of the Hear and Now.
richie43 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2022, 05:54 PM   #52
bFooz
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Slovakia
Posts: 2,588
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by richie43 View Post
Good one! I totally forgot this, too! I bought it long enough ago to not know when.
The problem with Halcyon is the filters are steep and non-linear phase thus when mixed back they are creating phase cancellations close to the filter frequencies. And it sounds bad.

Last edited by bFooz; 01-05-2022 at 05:31 AM.
bFooz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2022, 07:36 PM   #53
Daodan
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,182
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bFooz View Post
The problem with Halcyon is the filters are steep and non-linear phase thus when mixed back with they are creating phase cancellations close to the filter frequencies. And it sounds bad.
+1. I couldn't believe it was so bad so I even tried reinstalling several times
Daodan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2022, 06:17 AM   #54
bFooz
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Slovakia
Posts: 2,588
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjoe View Post
I'll share a preset for ReaEQ which mimics the 80hz settings of Lovend so you can experiment.
I've tried things and you're right. The allpass filter does change a sound a lot for the low frewuencies.

There's a somehow related video from Dan Worall https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZ9WQDojQt8 . As I've been experimenting with sound and PluginDoctor, I found out that the phase button on SlickEQ does almost the same thing that Lovend does.
bFooz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2022, 07:21 AM   #55
bigjoe
Human being with feelings
 
bigjoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 323
Default

Yeah, All-pass filters are pretty powerful and very dangerous (in the wrong hands).
You can achieve a lot through them, from phase alignment to sound mangling.
It's just a matter of becoming familiar with them.
Also just experiment with filter stacks to alter phase of a particular frequency range, with the added effect of a filter.

Steep Notches, HPF or LPF filters chan rotate the phase pretty heavily if you try to stack the very same filter multiple times, one filter on top of the other.
The result is a very steep filter or notch and a transient shifting, especially on bass frequencies.

It's actually a lot of fun when it comes to percussive or SFX sound design
bigjoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2022, 01:32 PM   #56
bFooz
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Slovakia
Posts: 2,588
Default

denise's BassXL is on sale in PluginBoutique https://www.pluginboutique.com/produ...gins-for-5-5-5

It does almost the same thing as RBass.
bFooz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2023, 02:20 PM   #57
DreamDisease
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 248
Default

I tried BassXL it doesn't seem quite right...it's comparable to reaper's Bass Manager/Booster JS. I mostly use it on vocals and RBass seems to be a bit different.

Which sucks because I want to get off this Wave and I've mostly found replacements for everything else. Waves is expiring soon for me.
__________________
You got the music in you
DreamDisease is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2023, 02:35 PM   #58
Hermetech Mastering
Human being with feelings
 
Hermetech Mastering's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Milan, Italy
Posts: 512
Default

Basslane Pro is great

https://www.toneprojects.com/basslane-pro.html
Hermetech Mastering is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2023, 05:12 PM   #59
dug dog
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,802
Default

Dan Worrall did a deep dive on RBass and alternatives. I've attached a track template that I made, based on his video, that uses ReaEQ and ReaComp. EDIT: Send the original bass to this track and mix it back in with the original.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSnSBnp0HS4
Attached Files
File Type: rtracktemplate R BASS Emulation.RTrackTemplate (1.9 KB, 44 views)

Last edited by dug dog; 05-09-2023 at 10:42 AM.
dug dog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2023, 06:28 PM   #60
sekim
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 473
Default

Not free but a great product IMO is Unfiltered Audio Bass Mint. Its several different bass enhancing algos in a single UI and for me has been very good. Of course ymmv, but its definitely worth a demo IMO.
sekim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2023, 08:24 AM   #61
Magicbuss
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,958
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bladerunner View Post
Bark Of Dog is simply a one band EQ. You could do the exact same thing with ReaEQ.
Yes. Its just a resonant lowpass IIRC.

RBass does not add sub frequencies - there seems to be lots of confusion about this. It adds harmonics ABOVE a user defined cutoff frequency. The end result tricks your ear into thinking there is more sub content (phantom fundamental) but what it really does is make your bass more present in smaller speakers which is why its so popular in the earbud era.

You can achieve something similar with a parallel chain by band limiting the bass with linear phase EQ, distorting it with whatever and mixing it with the original bass. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSnSBnp0HS4

There are more than a few plugins that do the added upper harmonics thing ((and sometimes lower harmonics as well).

https://store.solidstatelogic.com/plug-ins/subgen
https://www.meldaproduction.com/MBassador
https://www.leapwingaudio.com/product/rootone/
https://www.blacksaltaudio.com/low-control/
https://www.toneprojects.com/basslane-pro.html
https://www.plugin-alliance.com/en/p...bass_mint.html
https://www.acustica-audio.com/shop/...ts/FIRETHEBASS
https://www.denise.io/store/denise/BassXL
https://klevgrand.com/products/knorr

Last edited by Magicbuss; 05-09-2023 at 08:30 AM.
Magicbuss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2023, 06:53 PM   #62
sekim
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 473
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magicbuss View Post
It adds harmonics ABOVE a user defined cutoff frequency. The end result tricks your ear into thinking there is more sub content (phantom fundamental) but what it really does is make your bass more present in smaller speakers which is why its so popular in the earbud era.
Exactly what one of the algos in Unfiltered Audio's Bass Mint does, and it works wonders on something that sounds great on a full spectrum monitoring system but thin on computer speakers or whatever. Crank in a bit of the higher bass harmonics with the algo and it sounds great in the small speakers without screwing up the full spectrum.
sekim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2023, 08:49 PM   #63
Sid
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 516
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Bob View Post
Lots of folks use Bass Professor (free!) to enhance bass, but also use it for other instrumentation ...

dB
+1
Great on Kick Drum also.
https://plugins4free.com/plugin/2589/
https://plugins4free.com/plugin/2590/
Sid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2023, 11:15 PM   #64
Philbo King
Human being with feelings
 
Philbo King's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 3,204
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Bob View Post
Lots of folks use Bass Professor (free!) to enhance bass, but also use it for other instrumentation ...

dB
I wish there was a stereo version for putting on a drum bus. But it's great for tweaking individual drums...
__________________
Tangent Studio - Philbo King
www.soundclick.com/philboking - Audio streams
Philbo King is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2023, 04:02 PM   #65
Andreya
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 298
Default

For what it's worth, out of the ones that do *both* bass saturation and octave-down effects in the same plugin, only Mbassador is worth its salt in my opinion. I've tried the Voxengo one and a few others I can't remember, and cannot in good conscience recommend any of them. Either the octave-down effect does that intolerable glitchy stuff, or the saturation thing sounds half-baked, or there's a good sound in there somewhere but the parameter sweetspot is tiny. Mbassador's saturation controls work great, and the sub octaves work really consistently (and get the saturation as well, independently). Just a couple cents.
Andreya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2023, 05:56 AM   #66
Sid
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 516
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Philbo King View Post
I wish there was a stereo version for putting on a drum bus. But it's great for tweaking individual drums...
Bass Professor MKII (Build 170704) has a Mono/Stereo Switch (labeled Channel). I discovered this as I was setting up two copies (one left one right) and one by one linking the parameters between them. Hmm, channel, what's this do... doh!

Last edited by Sid; 06-02-2023 at 06:05 AM.
Sid is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:02 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.