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07-20-2018, 07:41 AM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 13,333
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v5.94pre2 - July 20 2018
v5.94pre2 - July 20 2018
- + linux: ALSA rawmidi support
- + linux: do not show ALSA MIDI-only devices in audio device configuration
- + linux: fix launching external editors
- # wiring diagram: fix folder receive positioning [p=2013577]
Changelog - Pre-Releases
Generated by X-Raym's REAPER ChangeLog to BBCode
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07-20-2018, 06:20 PM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 89
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When the wiring diagram is docked, I can drag a drag a track over to the right and the page scrolls but it will not scroll back to the left. It scrolls both ways if not docked. (Sorry, if this was already mentioned in previous thread, I may have missed it in all the noise)
Can attach gif if that's not clear.
I really hope this kind of thing makes it into the track FX plugin view, that would be incredible.
Win 7 64 bit
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07-21-2018, 03:05 AM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 739
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Two issues with Track Wiring:
1. Vertical scroll bar is not working as expected. Clicking on it starts scrolling in horizontal.
2. If height of window is reduced so that wires are outside of window, horizontal scrolling is unreliable, it scrolls also in vertical direction.
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07-21-2018, 04:47 AM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 635
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckwood
I really hope this kind of thing makes it into the track FX plugin view, that would be incredible.
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Yes, please, +10000000!!! I would LOVE to see this kind of wiring/routing available in the FX plugin window so we can create some truly powerful plugin chains... an effective variation of this idea for FX chains is already in Studio One, where you can set up Extended FX Chains with splits, channel splits and even frequency splits. It's absolutely fantastic for sound design. You can also do this with Instruments, and build a multi instrument preset with macro knobs.
PLEASE consider this for FX!
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07-21-2018, 05:28 AM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Krefeld, Germany
Posts: 14,688
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fetidus
I would LOVE to see this kind of wiring/routing available in the FX plugin window ...
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You can do all you describe by pin routing, but just not in a graphical way.
see -> https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...&postcount=175
-Michael
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07-21-2018, 05:29 AM
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#6
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 635
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Yup, already replied there!
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07-21-2018, 06:40 AM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Adelaide, South Australia (originally from Geelong)
Posts: 5,598
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I've just read about this wiring diagram view and I'm VERY keen to check it out. Great stuff guys!!
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07-21-2018, 07:44 AM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 739
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell
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Yes, as you say, just not in a graphical way. To be able to do it in graphical way would be very welcome.
Imagine moving items on timeline, just not in a graphical way. I think graphical way is very handy.
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07-21-2018, 07:49 AM
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#9
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 635
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell
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The point I was suggesting is to hopefully, ultimately bring this kind of graphical interface to the FX window with easy, flexible routing to create complex FX routing presets, then maybe slap a simple macro interface on top of that and you have the ULTIMATE FX sound design interface, which then coupled with all of Reaper's other wonderful sound design tools, would create the Godzilla of sound design toolsets. Workflow is supreme. I can emulate that kind of workflow with 100 other steps, but it's unusably, overly complex compared to that kind of elegance. Taking what Justin and Schwa are doing with this feature and applying it to FX would be BRILLIANT.
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07-21-2018, 08:08 AM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Adelaide, South Australia (originally from Geelong)
Posts: 5,598
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fetidus
The point I was suggesting is to hopefully, ultimately bring this kind of graphical interface to the FX window with easy, flexible routing to create complex FX routing presets, then maybe slap a simple macro interface on top of that and you have the ULTIMATE FX sound design interface, which then coupled with all of Reaper's other wonderful sound design tools, would create the Godzilla of sound design toolsets. Workflow is supreme. I can emulate that kind of workflow with 100 other steps, but it's unusably, overly complex compared to that kind of elegance. Taking what Justin and Schwa are doing with this feature and applying it to FX would be BRILLIANT.
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I'll add a HUGE +1 to this!!
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07-22-2018, 12:55 PM
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#11
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,409
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReaDave
I'll add a HUGE +1 to this!!
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Absolutely -- fingers crossed that it's part of the master plan. I do much more crazy routing in FX chains than I do between tracks.
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07-22-2018, 03:12 PM
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#12
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 3,669
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i finally got a chance to look at the wiring diagram today. i'm a huge Plogue Bidule user and have been FRing this for years, so i'm psyched to see this happening.
* first impressions: it looks great. this should appease some g.u.whiners.
* i'm REALLY missing a "maximize" button on the wiring diagram window. i miss it on all REAPER windows that don't have it.
* without the ability to zoom out as shown below in Bidule, it's unusable on a project of any complexity.
my "cables" hang low, offscreen, as they reach between each other.
* the default display of all tracks horizontally probably isn't the best way to do it. some sort of x by x grid might be best to quickly show as many tracks as possible at once. edit: but i don't know - maybe this is just necessary for old projects. new projects will be organized in the wiring diagram differently from the start as it gets used.
* navigating this new screen: i'm really missing the ability to middlemouse-drag hand scroll in the wiring diagram. moving the horizontal slider to view more objects makes the vertical slider bar jump down. moving around this view feels jerky and mousewheel is too slow, as others noted.
* +1 for this concept making its way to FX ins/outs. though bidule already does this, certain things are better handled within REAPER without running an instance of bidule as vst.
* it's already been really useful to show me how many of my control/system tracks have unnecessary parent sends
* when i played back a project, i kinda hoped to see midi activity displayed, and some sort of super rudimentary VU. the former is more important than the latter. one thing i always wished Bidule could do was have the "cables" indicate when a certain signal was flowing through it, such as turning a specific color as midi data passes through
* i hit return before i was done so expect a followup please
Last edited by mccrabney; 07-22-2018 at 03:29 PM.
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07-22-2018, 03:28 PM
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#13
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 3,669
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* dragging and dropping sends: use shift to drop a single channel rather than the default stereo. nice. figured that one out as i was writing that i couldn't.
* based on my experience with Bidule, i was expecting to not only be able to drag a send "cable" TO another track, but be able to drag a receive FROM a track to the sending track. like this:
* i like how you've incorporated the FX into the wiring diagram. however, to expand on what i said in the last post, i wish we could enter another wiring diagram for a single track, which shows the different FX as individual blocks instead of tracks.
* i wish we could move the "output" block around the diagram in the same way we can move around the tracks. i also wish that the "inputs" block could remain present -- i can only seem to see it while
* FRs:
drag and drop fx
rename tracks
cut, copy, paste, delete tracks
lasso select multiple tracks
ability to collapse folder tracks, hiding children
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07-22-2018, 03:49 PM
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#14
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 3,669
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* i feel like clicking on a track in the wiring diagram should (optionally?) select it. i keep clicking tracks and then expecting my controller's "when selected" assignments to work.
* FR: minimize all tracks in wiring diagram
* FR: main screen action: open wiring diagram focusing on selected track. open wiring diagram showing selected tracks, hiding others
* at first i didn't like how minimizing tracks moved other children tracks, but now i do. i am getting behavior where certain tracks don't move later tracks, seemingly arbitrarily. will attempt to create repro steps
i think that does it for me for now.
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07-22-2018, 09:38 PM
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#15
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Krefeld, Germany
Posts: 14,688
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mccrabney
though bidule already does this, certain things are better handled within REAPER without running an instance of bidule as vst.
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Knowing that people feel forced to use Bidule (or whatever audio handling plugin) just to pimp the user interface for something that Reaper can internally do just by defining the appropriate routing seems like a very sad story to me.
In fact Bidule seems to be able to serve as a decent boilerplate for such a GUI...
Quote:
Originally Posted by mccrabney
... much more decent stuff ...
when i played back a project, i kinda hoped to see midi activity displayed, and some sort of super rudimentary VU, ...
... even more decent stuff ...
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Obviously - and as was to be expected - the devs opened a can of worms by demonstrating a partly "new GUI" for Reaper. And now everybody - including myself - feels like adding a new worm to the lot. I am not sure that I should be happy about this non sound-engine related huge effort coming up to the devs.
-Michael
Last edited by mschnell; 07-22-2018 at 10:28 PM.
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07-22-2018, 10:11 PM
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#16
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,409
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell
Knowing that people feel forced to use Bidule (or whatever audio handling plugin) just to pimp the user interface for something that Reaper can internally do just by defining the appropriate routing seems like a very sad story to me.
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For me the advantage isn't as much in the establishment of routing; it's when I open a project from three months ago that has a bunch of weird routing going on and I have to click through 27 little dialogs and try to put together a mental map of what is routing to where, what is automation-linked to what, what faders control what, etc. It will be amazing to pull up a fancy GUI that just draws what I would otherwise need to draw by hand on a piece of paper. And of course it's the same issue with intra-track pin routing among FX, so here's hoping that happens someday too!
Quote:
Obviously - and ex was to be expected - the devs opened a can of worms by demonstrating a partly "new GUI" for Reaper. (I am not sure that I should be happy about this non sound-engine related huge effort coming up to them.)
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Given the apparent speed with which Schwa knocked out the score editor, I'm not too concerned, personally, but we all have our priorities. I think this is going to be a much-loved feature among the user base, especially once whatever coming improvements are implemented.
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07-22-2018, 10:36 PM
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#17
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Krefeld, Germany
Posts: 14,688
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clepsydrae
Given the apparent speed with which Schwa knocked out the score editor, I'm not too concerned, ...
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But see the huge amount of (decent) feature requests regarding the "wire" interface that already have been uttered within just two days.
-Michael
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07-22-2018, 10:40 PM
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#18
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,409
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell
But see the huge amount of (decent) feature requests regarding the "wire" interface that already have been uttered within just two days.
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Yeah, but wasn't there was a similar pile of requests for the score editor? Maybe I'm misremembering. Anyway, hopefully it's just an indication of how excited folks are about the potential of the new wire display. (Looking on the bright side. :-) )
AFAIK the devs haven't given us an indication of whether this feature is going to be much extended in the future, so that's an open question.
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07-22-2018, 11:48 PM
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#19
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Krefeld, Germany
Posts: 14,688
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clepsydrae
Yeah, but wasn't there was a similar pile of requests for the score editor?
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Yep. But not is such elaborated detail.
Hoping for the devs to wisely manage their resources, and hoping that they enjoy great fun with any of their moves !
-Michael
Last edited by mschnell; 07-23-2018 at 03:15 AM.
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07-23-2018, 05:08 AM
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#20
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 3,669
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell
Knowing that people feel forced to use Bidule (or whatever audio handling plugin) just to pimp the user interface for something that Reaper can internally do just by defining the appropriate routing seems like a very sad story to me.
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oh don't worry about that. doing something like this arbitrary screenshot of [1 small part of 1 small group in my default bidule project] in REAPER using the previous routing system would be akin to building a ship in a bottle, or thimbling an ocean dry. "it could be done internally," but nobody would ever, ever want to. just ask me pre-2014 (before i bought bidule).
^ this is still relatively linear compared to some of the stuff i have going on
some of this stuff i do in bidule for that reason, even though it means i have to use virtual midi ios and accept 2x the latency (still negligible) as signal runs from my controller into bidule, out of bidule, into REAPER, and then back to my controller (led feedback)
this is not a reinvention of the wheel, this is putting retractable wheels on a surfboard and hitting the road
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07-23-2018, 05:52 AM
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#21
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Krefeld, Germany
Posts: 14,688
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Fun, but not convincing
-Michael
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07-23-2018, 06:09 AM
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#22
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 3,669
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then there is no convincing you.
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07-23-2018, 08:54 AM
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#23
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Krefeld, Germany
Posts: 14,688
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No.
In fact some years ago, I chose Reaper instead of Bidule for my live playing setup.
A Bidule VST work-alike functionality remote-controlling Repar's Audio and Midi routing, while not grabbing the Audio and Midi streams would be convincing.
- optimum latency
- JSFX plugins usable
- no additional afterthought when using 32/64 Bit VSTs or DX plugins
- Automation of plugin parameters
- ...
The Reaper devs might be up to something like this, but I suppose it's a long way.
-Michael
Last edited by mschnell; 07-23-2018 at 01:23 PM.
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07-23-2018, 11:03 AM
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#24
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 739
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mccrabney
^ this is still relatively linear compared to some of the stuff i have going on
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I don't want to see anything like that in Reaper.
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07-23-2018, 11:11 AM
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#25
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,790
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Well, it looks better than the current state of wiring diagram in Reaper in large projects.
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07-23-2018, 11:23 AM
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#26
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 739
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I think current state of wiring in Reaper would work much better on a single track. It would also be much more useful to just use it for plugin routing within a single track.
Current wiring could be renamed to "Project Wiring", and there could be new "Track Wiring" for a single track.
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07-23-2018, 11:26 AM
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#27
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 3,669
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonicowl
I think current state of wiring in Reaper would work much better on a single track. It would also be much more useful to just use it for plugin routing within a single track.
Current wiring could be renamed to "Project Wiring", and there could be new "Track Wiring" for a single track.
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Quote:
I don't want to see anything like that in Reaper.
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i guess i don't really care, but which is it? because it's the essentially same concept with a different ui.
edit - any perceived rudeness was not intended, on rereading this i see how it could be interpreted that way
Last edited by mccrabney; 07-23-2018 at 11:43 AM.
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07-23-2018, 02:03 PM
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#28
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clepsydrae
Absolutely -- fingers crossed that it's part of the master plan. I do much more crazy routing in FX chains than I do between tracks.
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Me too.
+ 1000
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07-24-2018, 12:45 AM
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#29
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 739
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mccrabney
i guess i don't really care, but which is it? because it's the essentially same concept with a different ui.
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The graphic presentation of your example - it looks too agressive to me. IMO Reaktor UI looks much more polished and easier on the eyes.
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07-24-2018, 12:48 AM
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#30
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Krefeld, Germany
Posts: 14,688
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonicowl
I don't want to see anything like that in Reaper.
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Of course it should be enabled optionally and/or only pop up as a result of an action.
Technically, maybe it should/could be done as an extension rather than in the main executable. But this of course is up to the devs.
-Michael
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07-24-2018, 12:50 AM
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#31
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,790
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonicowl
The graphic presentation of your example - it looks too agressive to me. IMO Reaktor UI looks much more polished and easier on the eyes.
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It doesn't look aggressive, it looks zoomed out, so things are a little bit jaggy. Bidule looks really smooth at its default zoom level (and more compact compared to Reaktor, since modules are not unnecessarily big rectangles).
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