Old 08-16-2018, 09:18 AM   #1
enroe
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 141
Default How do you correct "p"- and "t"-consonants?

How do you correct "p"- and "t"-consonants in reaper?

Imagine you have a long vocal track. The "p"s and "t"s need a
volume-reduction and some need an eq applying a bass-
reduction. The volume-reduction is easy. But what about
applying an eq?

In other DAWs (Cubase, Logic) you just doubleclick on the
audio-clip, select the section which needs a correction. Then
you apply a VSTi offline - e.g an EQ - and say <proceed>. The
VST is calculated and a new audio-clip - non-destructive - will
be created. That's it - fast with only 4 clicks.

How do you do the same in Reaper? I am really wondering ...
__________________
free mp3s + info: andy-enroe.de songs and weird stuff: enroe.de
enroe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2018, 10:49 AM   #2
ivansc
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 17,428
Default

Dont actually need to use a separate VST.
If you select the item area you want to affect & split either side of it, you can then right click on it and access the inbuilt tools under media item properties.

Works for me and because nothing in Reaper is really destructive you can play about to your heart`s content, safe in the knowledge that if you over-cook something, you can always get it back.
__________________
We are in a rudderless ship with a fool at the wheel who doesnt even realise it ain`t working any more
ivansc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2018, 10:56 AM   #3
poetnprophet
Human being with feelings
 
poetnprophet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 210
Default

I'm curious, how does it create a new clip, but is non-destructive?

Anyway, you can do this a few ways:

- item FX as ivan mentions
- volume and FX (eq) automation
- use a dynamic eq (this won't necessarily affect volume but it may be a twofer)

All non-destructive
poetnprophet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2018, 11:01 AM   #4
karbomusic
Human being with feelings
 
karbomusic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 22,214
Default

Sometimes a single split of the item at the consonant then a small adjustment of the fades will be just enough to drop the volume without artifacts, or EQ can be used as item FX when splitting on both sides and there's always the spectrograph edit mode.

I could dream up more I'm sure.
karbomusic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2018, 11:07 AM   #5
Tod
Human being with feelings
 
Tod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Just outside of Glacier National Park
Posts: 11,836
Default

What Ivan says is good.

I used to use EQ some but I've found that the "Take Volume" envelope can take care of 99%
of it. I always take the time anyway to adjust the take volume envelope on the whole vocal
track, so I catch the P/B-pops along with the s, c, t, type consonants as I go, all with the
take volume envelope.
__________________
Kontakt Vid Tutorials->Create Outputs / Create Templates -|- SMDrums Free drums -|- Elk Video Productions -|- Tod's Music
Tod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2018, 11:19 AM   #6
karbomusic
Human being with feelings
 
karbomusic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 22,214
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
What Ivan says is good.

I used to use EQ some but I've found that the "Take Volume" envelope can take care of 99%
of it. I always take the time anyway to adjust the take volume envelope on the whole vocal
track, so I catch the P/B-pops along with the s, c, t, type consonants as I go, all with the
take volume envelope.
Yep, same thing with the split but the take volume is probably more control and less messy.
karbomusic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2018, 11:30 AM   #7
enroe
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 141
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ivansc View Post
D... you can then right click on it and access the inbuilt tools under media item properties.
Here I can only see a volume- (and a pan-)slider.
Nothing else. Is that what you mean by "inbuilt
tools"?
__________________
free mp3s + info: andy-enroe.de songs and weird stuff: enroe.de
enroe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2018, 11:35 AM   #8
enroe
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 141
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by poetnprophet View Post
I'm curious, how does it create a new clip, but is non-destructive?
You refer to Apple Logic and Steinberg Cubase?

Here you have an an undo-history per audio-clip. And
in the undo-list you can go back and forth -
arbitrarily.
__________________
free mp3s + info: andy-enroe.de songs and weird stuff: enroe.de
enroe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2018, 11:40 AM   #9
EpicSounds
Human being with feelings
 
EpicSounds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,941
Default

Hi Enroe

I did a video on the topic a while ago, it sounds like you want to do it the same way as I do.

https://reaperblog.net/2017/05/eq_for_editing/
__________________
REAPER Video Tutorials, Tips & Tricks and more at The REAPER Blog
EpicSounds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2018, 11:57 AM   #10
enroe
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 141
Default

Thanks everyone!

Now I get a better picture about
handling explosives in reaper.
__________________
free mp3s + info: andy-enroe.de songs and weird stuff: enroe.de
enroe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2018, 11:59 AM   #11
enroe
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 141
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EpicSounds View Post
Hi Enroe

I did a video on the topic a while ago, it sounds like you want to do it the same way as I do.

https://reaperblog.net/2017/05/eq_for_editing/
Yeah, thank you.

Very efficient seems the possibilty
to just mousedrag an fx from one item
to all the other items. That is truly
fast!
__________________
free mp3s + info: andy-enroe.de songs and weird stuff: enroe.de
enroe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2018, 01:50 PM   #12
mschenkel
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Venice.it
Posts: 94
Default

I found that spectral editing does wonders with plosives, where with sibilants it’s slightly harder to achieve a good result.
While with plosives you get a ultra low freq bump, almost like a DC offset, something clearly unwanted (unless you are dealing with near-ear effects), sibilants otoh, from my perspective, detain some rhythmic character that many times needs a more precise edit rather than a that-very-frequency cut.
mschenkel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2018, 04:02 PM   #13
Tod
Human being with feelings
 
Tod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Just outside of Glacier National Park
Posts: 11,836
Default

The Take Volume envelope will take care of it nearly all the time, unless it's really bad, in which
case a little surgery is required which is what Ivan is talking about.
__________________
Kontakt Vid Tutorials->Create Outputs / Create Templates -|- SMDrums Free drums -|- Elk Video Productions -|- Tod's Music
Tod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2018, 01:08 AM   #14
enroe
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 141
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mschenkel View Post
I found that spectral editing does wonders with plosives, where with sibilants it’s slightly harder to achieve a good result.
Yes, I've tried that once. In spectral editing you have to get
familiar with the assignment of colours to frequencies. As there
is no scale or marker for frequencies it is not easy to do - for
me at least.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mschenkel View Post
While with plosives you get a ultra low freq bump, almost like a DC offset, something clearly unwanted (unless you are dealing with near-ear effects), sibilants otoh, from my perspective, detain some rhythmic character that many times needs a more precise edit rather than a that-very-frequency cut.
Yes - the low frequencies can be detected in the spectral colours,
because they are clearly different from the adjacent areas.

But the sibilants are difficult: What colours do they have?
Do you have practice in evaluating frequencies out of colours?
__________________
free mp3s + info: andy-enroe.de songs and weird stuff: enroe.de
enroe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2018, 01:44 AM   #15
shosty
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 140
Default

You could try this https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=189120
I haven't tried to target specific consonants but if you can locate them then it should take care of them quickly.
shosty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2018, 04:42 AM   #16
Judders
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 6,270
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
The Take Volume envelope will take care of it nearly all the time, unless it's really bad, in which
case a little surgery is required which is what Ivan is talking about.
Yeah, take volume envelope works for most cases.

I tend to be a bit lazy and rely heavily on dynamic EQ though. It has the added benefit of not affecting the whole frequency range, which can be very useful if you have a fair amount of unwanted proximity effect or plosives, because you don't lose the body of the vocal when attenuating.
Judders is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2018, 09:32 AM   #17
ashcat_lt
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,292
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by poetnprophet View Post
I'm curious, how does it create a new clip, but is non-destructive?
Well, it creates a new "clip", but more importantly creates a new file. It does not change the old one. Nothing has been destroyed. Just like in Reaper, you have to try really hard to actually modify an existing audio file.

I never have this problem. Maybe I'm just lucky, or maybe I'm just shamelessly savage with highpass and compression on vocals. Either way, the only trouble I ever really have with plosives is if it was loud enough to distort on input. Then it's not really dealing with thump but trying to smooth out the crackle. I tend to engage the HPF on the mic if there is one, and I usually run my levels really low, but every once in a while somebody will surprise.

Plosives in live sound are one of my biggest pet peeves. When every p and b from the vocalist is kicking me in the chest like a kick drum, but you can't actually get the vocals loud enough to be intelligible without feedback... Well, they could have paid me to do it, but instead they got Mr Pro Soundguy who was in grade school when I started mixing shows. But he's got his fancy iPad and by fuck he's gonna use it.
ashcat_lt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2018, 09:56 AM   #18
Tod
Human being with feelings
 
Tod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Just outside of Glacier National Park
Posts: 11,836
Default

Quote:
Well, it creates a new "clip", but more importantly creates a new file.
Actually it don't create a new file until you glue it or render it in some way.
__________________
Kontakt Vid Tutorials->Create Outputs / Create Templates -|- SMDrums Free drums -|- Elk Video Productions -|- Tod's Music
Tod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2018, 10:00 AM   #19
ashcat_lt
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,292
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
Actually it don't create a new file until you glue it or render it in some way.
They were talking about another DAWs process which is functionally the same as "Apply Take FX as new Take", which...
ashcat_lt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2018, 10:14 AM   #20
Tod
Human being with feelings
 
Tod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Just outside of Glacier National Park
Posts: 11,836
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashcat_lt View Post
They were talking about another DAWs process which is functionally the same as "Apply Take FX as new Take", which...
Aah, okay, I thought it was Ivan's post that it was in response to, should have looked closer.

Still, the FX can be applied to each item without rendering.

When I first started with Reaper I hated the way it worked in this regards, but now I think it's great.
__________________
Kontakt Vid Tutorials->Create Outputs / Create Templates -|- SMDrums Free drums -|- Elk Video Productions -|- Tod's Music
Tod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2018, 11:47 AM   #21
ashcat_lt
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,292
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
Still, the FX can be applied to each item without rendering.
And THAT's something you can't do in some other DAWs.
ashcat_lt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2018, 12:24 AM   #22
Bazzbass
Human being with feelings
 
Bazzbass's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: The Land of Oz
Posts: 255
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by enroe View Post
Thanks everyone!

Now I get a better picture about
handling explosives in reaper.
Don't forget to put a pop-filter in front of the mic. If the singer still pops, get them to stand further away from the mic and/or move the filter further away from the mic.
__________________
Have a GOOD time....ALL the time !
Bazzbass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2018, 04:56 AM   #23
Judders
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 6,270
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bazzbass View Post
Don't forget to put a pop-filter in front of the mic. If the singer still pops, get them to stand further away from the mic and/or move the filter further away from the mic.
Angling off the mic can work wonders too.
Judders is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:34 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.