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08-08-2010, 03:23 PM
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#81
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 21,551
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Well this thread has certainly become entertaining.
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08-08-2010, 03:33 PM
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#82
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 627
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawrence
Well this thread has certainly become entertaining.
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yeah, all outa popcorn though.
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08-08-2010, 03:45 PM
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#83
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,295
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtthw
I like the MIDI, especially with the recent updates.
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Totally
you can also ask people how was it before a year, when I just came here...
the midi was unusable...
the problem is mostly with the priority of things..
as he said and I fully support:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renan L.B
gridline per octave is URGENTLY needed. This is a really basic and mandatory feature that should've been implemented from day one.
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There are things (like the gridline per octave) that are so basic and essential, it doesn't make any sense not to have them from day one...so at least give them higher priority today...
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08-08-2010, 03:51 PM
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#84
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reflected
Totally
you can also ask people how was it before a year, when I just came here...
the midi was unusable...
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I came a year and a half ago and MIDI was usable.
Now it's better, but it wasn't abysmal back then. v2 was abysmal.
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08-08-2010, 03:59 PM
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#85
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Basel, Switzerland
Posts: 4,715
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I came to Reaper with V2 - MIDI was far from being unusable even back then.
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08-08-2010, 04:02 PM
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#86
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Right between the resonance and the cutoff knob
Posts: 1,907
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reflected
Totally
you can also ask people how was it before a year, when I just came here...
the midi was unusable...
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I respectfully disagree with you; I was using it just fine 2 years ago.
It has made huge strides, and I would agree that there is work to do.
Edit
I came to Reaper around 1.5 something
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08-08-2010, 05:08 PM
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#87
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,295
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I can even use Impulse Tracker...
it is just not usable according to 2010...it has too much focus stoppers issues..
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08-08-2010, 05:10 PM
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#88
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,798
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If you can, then you should.
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08-08-2010, 06:41 PM
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#89
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,565
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i have to agree with Reflected on this.
its getting better, but still has a long way to go.
but i find it to be a real PITA to get anything substantial done in a short amount of time.
EDIT: Lawrence, im diggin the new UR avatar.
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08-08-2010, 06:45 PM
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#90
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: I am the elephant
Posts: 88
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08-08-2010, 07:04 PM
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#91
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 21,551
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strunkdts
EDIT: Lawrence, im diggin the new UR avatar.
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That's Riley Freeman. Coolest cartoon character ever behind Snoopy.
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08-08-2010, 07:05 PM
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#92
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Scribe
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Van Diemen's Land
Posts: 12,204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowellben
Well, then what did a previous poster above mean when he said that there are no "tools" in Reaper for velocity edits and erasing?
(Sorry...new to Reaper!) - SONAR convert
Ben
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Yes, ED's response gives you most of the answer ... in SONAR you edit mostly (audio and MIDI) using toolbars, right? You select a tool, then do with it as you will.
REAPER doesn't use toolbars in the same way. So for example, to change velocity just display velocity cc lane, then click and drag the bar up or down .. . to delete a block of notes, right click and drag around them to marquee then press Delete. There are other ways, this is an example.
You can also create custom actions and use those. But the short answer to your question is yes, you can do all the kind of things you are asking about in REAPER MIDi Editor, just the method is different.
Come to think of it, you should grab the Sonar to Reaper quick start guide ... here you are:
http://www.cockos.com/reaper/usergui...ARtoREAPER.pdf
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08-08-2010, 07:08 PM
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#93
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 21,551
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholas
REAPER doesn't use toolbars in the same way. So for example, to change velocity just display velocity cc lane, then click and drag the bar up or down .. . to delete a block of notes, right click and drag around them to marquee then press Delete. There are other ways, this is an example.
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Hey Nicholas,
I know I risk being redundant but of course the apps that use optional toolbars also allow editing the other way. I mean, I suspect in Sonar you can also marquee select a group of notes and hit delete and/or click drag velocity bars up/down. I think the part many people simply overlook is that either of those methods are optional?
I used to try to convince people that nobody has to (for instance) use most if not any of the mouse tools in Cubase. I kinda just gave up because they never hear me anyway. The only thing that Cubase requires a tool for to make happen are things that Reaper doesn't do under any circumstance so it's kinda moot. Like the audition tool or the tempo warp tool.
Last edited by Lawrence; 08-08-2010 at 07:14 PM.
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08-08-2010, 07:17 PM
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#94
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: They put me in a home.
Posts: 3,432
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholas
Yes, ED's response gives you most of the answer ... in SONAR you edit mostly (audio and MIDI) using toolbars, right? You select a tool, then do with it as you will.
REAPER doesn't use toolbars in the same way. So for example, to change velocity just display velocity cc lane, then click and drag the bar up or down .. . to delete a block of notes, right click and drag around them to marquee then press Delete. There are other ways, this is an example.
You can also create custom actions and use those. But the short answer to your question is yes, you can do all the kind of things you are asking about in REAPER MIDi Editor, just the method is different.
Come to think of it, you should grab the Sonar to Reaper quick start guide ... here you are:
http://www.cockos.com/reaper/usergui...ARtoREAPER.pdf
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Yup, I grabbed that PDF first thing
And now I do understand the Reaper approach to editing velocities/note data....
Thanks!
Ben
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08-08-2010, 07:36 PM
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#95
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Scribe
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Van Diemen's Land
Posts: 12,204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawrence
Hey Nicholas,
I know I risk being redundant but of course the apps that use optional toolbars also allow editing the other way. I mean, I suspect in Sonar you can also marquee select a group of notes and hit delete and/or click drag velocity bars up/down. I think the part many people simply overlook is that either of those methods are optional?
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Lawrence, I'm at least 95% certain that you're right ... I was just responding to lowellben's original concern that it might not be possible to do some of these tasks at all in REAPER.
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08-08-2010, 07:40 PM
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#96
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 21,551
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholas
Lawrence, I'm at least 95% certain that you're right ... I was just responding to lowellben's original concern that it might not be possible to do some of these tasks at all in REAPER.
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Thanks Nick.
While you're here (being the official manual guy ) can you tell me why midi velocity doesn't go to 0 (in the piano roll)? It only goes to 1. Thanks.
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08-08-2010, 08:01 PM
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#97
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 390
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Reaper's reflected is still the WORST compared to all the members i know.. :P
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08-08-2010, 08:15 PM
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#98
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,295
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FarBeyondMetal
Reaper's reflected is still the WORST compared to all the members i know.. :P
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worst and the best at the same time...
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08-08-2010, 08:16 PM
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#99
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Scribe
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Van Diemen's Land
Posts: 12,204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawrence
Thanks Nick.
While you're here (being the official manual guy ) can you tell me why midi velocity doesn't go to 0 (in the piano roll)? It only goes to 1. Thanks.
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No idea, sorry. I'm just the humble scribe who documents it, not one of those who craft the program.
You'd have to direct that one at Justin or Schwa ...
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08-08-2010, 08:31 PM
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#100
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 22,572
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jens
I came to Reaper with V2 - MIDI was far from being unusable even back then.
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its hyper-troll-bole
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08-08-2010, 08:55 PM
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#101
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,565
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08-08-2010, 09:20 PM
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#102
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,572
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon
You do have ghosted MIDI items, but you need to convert a MIDI item to a ghostable item, which will write that MIDI item to MIDI file on your hard drive. It is a bit cumbersome, but possible. We're all waiting for in-project ghosted items!
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What the heck are ghostable items?? Could someone please explain this? I think I missed the secret meeting! :P
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08-08-2010, 10:00 PM
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#103
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Basel, Switzerland
Posts: 4,715
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawrence
can you tell me why midi velocity doesn't go to 0 (in the piano roll)? It only goes to 1.
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it's clearly an error (a buglette you might say) - if you enter the value 0 in the piano-roll then the note disappears.
Perhaps then one who coded the editor (Justin I guess) doesn't normally use MIDI himself and thus overlooked than 0=1?
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08-08-2010, 10:04 PM
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#104
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Ljubljana, Slovenia
Posts: 3,801
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeyBwah
What the heck are ghostable items?? Could someone please explain this? I think I missed the secret meeting! :P
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It means that ghost copies of original item are instances
of it, instead of real copies. In effect that means if you
make a change in any of the instances, it will be applied
to all instances, rather than to that copy alone.
It's also known as shared copy.
Currently in Reaper this is only possible by storing a
.midi file to disc and referencing it.
e
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08-08-2010, 10:07 PM
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#105
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Scribe
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Van Diemen's Land
Posts: 12,204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeyBwah
What the heck are ghostable items?? Could someone please explain this? I think I missed the secret meeting! :P
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If you copy/paste a normal MIDI item it creates new discrete items - so that if you then edit one the others remain unchanged.
If you convert to ghost item (right click, Item Processing) to a ghost copyable file before copying, any changes you make to one copy are automatically made to all.
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08-08-2010, 10:15 PM
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#106
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Basel, Switzerland
Posts: 4,715
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeyBwah
What the heck are ghostable items?? Could someone please explain this? I think I missed the secret meeting! :P
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if you copy an item and then edit it or one of its copies, all these items which belong together change accordingly.
The term 'ghost' was first used for this function on Notator, Logic's predeccessor (which was a real joy to use b.t.w.).
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08-08-2010, 10:44 PM
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#107
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-blänk-
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 11,359
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Quote:
can you tell me why midi velocity doesn't go to 0 (in the piano roll)? It only goes to 1.
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MIDI Note-on messages with a velocity of zero are handled as Note-off in the MIDI world (keyword = "running status" if you want to look further into it). It really doesn't make much sense to have note-on with velocity zero in a piano roll editor. They wouldn't produce any sound.
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08-08-2010, 10:48 PM
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#108
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,572
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricM
It means that ghost copies of original item are instances
of it, instead of real copies. In effect that means if you
make a change in any of the instances, it will be applied
to all instances, rather than to that copy alone.
It's also known as shared copy.
Currently in Reaper this is only possible by storing a
.midi file to disc and referencing it.
e
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholas
If you copy/paste a normal MIDI item it creates new discrete items - so that if you then edit one the others remain unchanged.
If you convert to ghost item (right click, Item Processing) to a ghost copyable file before copying, any changes you make to one copy are automatically made to all.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jens
if you copy an item and then edit it or one of its copies, all these items which belong together change accordingly.
The term 'ghost' was first used for this function on Notator, Logic's predeccessor (which was a real joy to use b.t.w.).
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Ah thanks guys, just was unclear about the terminology. I know that behavior and have tagged "ghost item" to it in my personal database.(brain)
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08-09-2010, 12:26 AM
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#109
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Pixel Pusher
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Blighty
Posts: 4,985
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An inflammatory thread title always gathers replies ...but if I were to think to myself "hmm, I wonder what the collective wisdom of the Reaper community sees for the future direction of the MIDI editor..." would I read this thread?
Would I bollocks.
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08-09-2010, 12:33 AM
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#110
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 678
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawrence
That would have been one of about 50 similar examples I can describe. Try raising the velocity of any note with a velocity under 20 by +20 or any kind of complex edit like that in a 5 minute two-handed piano track. Make some coffee.
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Maybe you have lots of better examples but actually the one you mentioned shows exactly the beauty of REAPER, IMHO. That task is so simple and logical that I don't know how it could be better. Just lasso select these low velocities from velocity lane and hit note properties dialog (ctrl+F2 by default, I have it on F3) and write +20 to velocity field.
Now my gripe would be MIDI filter, it should be better. Hmm, maybe it's time to go to FR section...
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08-09-2010, 01:18 AM
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#111
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 396
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gavriloP
Maybe you have lots of better examples but actually the one you mentioned shows exactly the beauty of REAPER, IMHO. That task is so simple and logical that I don't know how it could be better. Just lasso select these low velocities from velocity lane and hit note properties dialog (ctrl+F2 by default, I have it on F3) and write +20 to velocity field.
Now my gripe would be MIDI filter, it should be better. Hmm, maybe it's time to go to FR section...
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You being MUCH more knowledgable in Reaper, I thought I'de copy/paste something I wrote earlier in this thread as these are some of the MIDI editing features I can't seem to do (easily) in Reaper... any ideas would be greatly appreciated:
Quote:
Grabbing every other note in a 4 minute piano piece?
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Selecting all notes between C3 and G4 that are on the 3rd beat of every measure
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Splitting chords to seperate tracks (I know there is a JS plug for this, but it's pretty limited in function)
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Creating crecendos relative to the velocites that are already on the track
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Transposing based on user defined scales
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08-09-2010, 01:34 AM
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#112
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 22,754
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benmrx has a point, y`know.
The only reason I still have my Amiga 1200 is to do MIDI on it.
Because it DOES do all the things I ant easily do or not do at all in Reaper.
Reaper is fine but it isnt either finished or perfect.
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08-09-2010, 03:13 AM
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#113
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Brian Merrill
I have tried the following midi editors:
Sonar (older version)
Cubase (v3SL)
Acid
Tracktion
eXt
FLstudio
Reaper
Podium
Samplitude
and I would say the only one better than reaper from this list is FLstudio.
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Reaper works best for me too - I love the velocity envelope inside the note - really intuitive way to do it - the only other host i know that does that is Studio One but they have it sideways and it doesn't feel right..
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08-09-2010, 03:20 AM
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#114
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 396
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aMUSEd
Reaper works best for me too - I love the velocity envelope inside the note - really intuitive way to do it - the only other host i know that does that is Studio One but they have it sideways and it doesn't feel right..
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Yeah.... I thought that was really odd in S1.... the up/down velocity handles in Reaper just makes sense.
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08-09-2010, 04:00 AM
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#115
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 21,551
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gavriloP
Maybe you have lots of better examples but actually the one you mentioned shows exactly the beauty of REAPER, IMHO. That task is so simple and logical that I don't know how it could be better. Just lasso select these low velocities from velocity lane and hit note properties dialog (ctrl+F2 by default, I have it on F3) and write +20 to velocity field.
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I think I already mentioned that was a bad example. There are easily many examples of the relative lack of power midi editing but I won't mention them over and over again. Doing so only causes people to make more excuses as to why they don't currently need them, or will ever need them, until Reaper gets them, and then they'll be "brilliant".
These threads continue to entertain though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aMUSEd
Reaper works best for me too - I love the velocity envelope inside the note - really intuitive way to do it - the only other host i know that does that is Studio One but they have it sideways and it doesn't feel right..
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You might want to have another look at some of the other hosts. I think there are many hosts that allow adjusting velocity right on the note(s) with a display and sounding of the note. I've been doing that in one for about 8+ years.
What I personally don't get, and what I find entertaining, is how people just totally ignore the things it can't do while praising things it does as unique (even though a lot of it is not unique). People seriously cannot be that totally unaware of the many midi editing techniques and things that Reaper has yet to add.
The OP should have just made FR's instead of this thread which had no other choice but to become a competition of random justifications.
Last edited by Lawrence; 08-09-2010 at 04:09 AM.
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08-09-2010, 04:08 AM
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#116
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Greece
Posts: 3,554
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Didn't read the whole thread... I have the following thoughts:
1) Doesn't matter if reaper has the worst, the second worst, or whatever, MIDI editor among other daws. The midi editor has received a lot of improvements and still needs some more, that's all that's important to me.
2) I agree with most points raised by the OP.
3) We need different mouse cursors to signify what you're doing with your mouse+shortcuts at any moment anywhere in the midi editor. Because the mouse cursor almost never changes, there is the perceived 'lack of tools'. You currently need to memorize and learn it by heart, all the different shortcuts and modifiers. I enjoy having visual hints and reminders as much as possible... because we cram so much into our minds nowadays.
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08-09-2010, 04:18 AM
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#117
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evan
3) We need different mouse cursors to signify what you're doing with your mouse+shortcuts at any moment anywhere in the midi editor. Because the mouse cursor almost never changes, there is the perceived 'lack of tools'. You currently need to memorize and learn it by heart, all the different shortcuts and modifiers. I enjoy having visual hints and reminders as much as possible... because we cram so much into our minds nowadays.
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Holy shit, YES, we need MORE MIDI CURSORS!!!
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08-09-2010, 04:32 AM
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#118
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 21,551
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon
Holy shit, YES, we need MORE MIDI CURSORS!!!
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Enthusiasms.
The remainder of this post removed by the author...
Last edited by Lawrence; 08-09-2010 at 05:25 AM.
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08-09-2010, 05:00 AM
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#119
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 678
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawrence
I think I already mentioned that was a bad example. There are easily many examples of the relative lack of power midi editing but I won't mention them over and over again. Doing so only causes people to make more excuses as to why they don't currently need them, or will ever need them, until Reaper gets them, and then they'll be "brilliant".
These threads continue to entertain though.
You might want to have another look at some of the other hosts. I think there are many hosts that allow adjusting velocity right on the note(s) with a display and sounding of the note. I've been doing that in one for about 8+ years.
What I personally don't get, and what I find entertaining, is how people just totally ignore the things it can't do while praising things it does as unique (even though a lot of it is not unique). People seriously cannot be that totally unaware of the many midi editing techniques and things that Reaper has yet to add.
The OP should have just made FR's instead of this thread which had no other choice but to become a competition of random justifications.
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Sorry if I wasn't clear. I didn't mean to be some fanboy who thinks REAPER is already perfect. There is lot of room to improve things, like some simple actions like move cursor to next note etc. I try to explain myself little. When I first tried to transpose in REAPER I was like WTF, where is a option for that? But then I found out from these very forums that cool +/- trick from note properties. And now I prefer that to another transpose button etc. Same here with this example. I think it is nice that REAPER isn't cluttered. And of course I am selfcentered here, it works for me, so I say it out loud. Well, of course if they would add transpose dialog where you can transpose within scales etc. that would be cool. Or that you could change scales etc.
I'm not saying there isn't room for improvement but I think REAPER has become great with MIDI too during this last year. Mind you, I get over 90% of my MIDI notes from keyboard and not with mouse so that affects my judgement too. I get things done in REAPER now that was difficult before. And no one can say that MIDI is neglected in development. I do use MIDI for drums, keys, synths etc. so it is important to me. But I'm not doing some gigantic orchestrations.
To say that REAPER's MIDI is very bad isn't true. I haven't used other big name DAWs in quite some time, but REAPER is as capable as many of them were some years ago, meaning you get the job done.
And as long as REAPER keeps stuff optional and little "hidden" I'm all for it. I for example much rather use stuff like bars with velocity, rather than envelopes (on CCs it's different matter).
For total MIDI work I wouldn't use REAPER but as a complete DAW it works well to me (and things can only get better ).
I'm all for FRs and improvement. And I believe in the positive attitude of this forum. I always learn something here, and I try to give something back to my best ability. Sorry if I gave some other impression.
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08-09-2010, 05:04 AM
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#120
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 22,572
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what i think is funny is people assuming a certain set of features is "essential" for midi when in reality, every host is different and does different things and it comes down to preference.
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