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Old 07-24-2016, 07:20 AM   #1
eviluess
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Default Project get freezed when click on the FX button

I opened a project to continue editing tonight.
However, I click on the FX button of Bass/Drums/Guitar,... it just NOT RESPONDING.

And I'd tried it over 6 times.

I think my reaper tour is ended up because of the bad stability.

I packed my project into 2 7zip file and uploaded to the attachment.

Rename them to xxx.7z.001, xxx.7z.002 then it's ok to unpack.


============ Project Uploaded to DropBox ==============

https://www.dropbox.com/s/htqtyqe1hb...kagami.7z?dl=0

Includes: Repaer Project, Audio File, Cubase Project (Adapted from the MIDI file exported from Reaper)

============ Project Uploaded to uploadedto ==============

Hey, I upload the project to http://ul.to/c2v7e7k9

I hope you can unpack it this time.

++ I exported to midi file and adapted in Cubase, also load 6 Kontakt 5.5.1, load 6 same Virtual Instrument, and Cubase 5 loaded the project very stable and fast. Showing all the 6 Kontakt interface without any delay, and the playback is smooth, no audio drop occurs.

Last edited by eviluess; 07-30-2016 at 09:19 PM.
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Old 07-24-2016, 07:50 AM   #2
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Not sure what you did but neither unzipping with winzip or 7zip works on those files - they all come up as "not valid".

And fwiw nobody else seems to get bad stability with Reaper, quite the opposite.
Tell us a little more about your setup and what -if any - plugins you are using.
Are you on Mac or PC what cpu what ram and what operating system (inc 32 or 64bit)
Will the project actually play normally, even if you cant access the FX?
Are the recordings actual audio of real instruments or Virtual Instrument plugins?
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Old 07-24-2016, 09:46 AM   #3
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Love to help, but can't open files.
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Old 07-25-2016, 03:51 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VinodXAgent View Post
Love to help, but can't open files.
I tried to renamed to xxx.7z.001 and xxx.7z.002, and it can be unzip by 7-zip.

And when reaper is frozed in this situation, it can't even be terminated by killing its process in the task manager. Only rebooting the system can help exiting it.
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Old 07-25-2016, 04:14 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivansc View Post
Not sure what you did but neither unzipping with winzip or 7zip works on those files - they all come up as "not valid".

And fwiw nobody else seems to get bad stability with Reaper, quite the opposite.
Tell us a little more about your setup and what -if any - plugins you are using.
Are you on Mac or PC what cpu what ram and what operating system (inc 32 or 64bit)
Will the project actually play normally, even if you cant access the FX?
Are the recordings actual audio of real instruments or Virtual Instrument plugins?
Fine, here's the answers to each questions:

Are you on Mac or PC what cpu what ram and what operating system (inc 32 or 64bit)
- Windows 7x64 Pro, 16 GB DDR 3, Intel i7 4790 running without overclocking. SSD * 1.

Will the project actually play normally, even if you cant access the FX?
- It can be played with some instruments dropping sounds. All instruments are loaded by Kontakt 5.5.1, which is running well in cubase with 21 instance loading LASS2 * 16 + Abby Road Drum + Ilya Guitar + .... without freezing.

- An audio track with one FX (FabFilter Q2) can be shown as soon as I clicked the FX button.

- All other tracks with ONE Kontakt in its FX cannot be shown and causes reaper frozen when I click the FX button.

Are the recordings actual audio of real instruments or Virtual Instrument plugins?

- 1 Audio track with FabFilter Q2 (Normal to open the FX window)
- 6 Virtual Instrument tracks with ONE kontakt 5.5.1 attached for each track, cause reaper frozen when I click the FX button.

Besides, If I have enough time, say 12 minutes, to wait for the FX window showing, it might open after such a long time.


Compared to Cubase 5 32-bit, I bridged the 64-bit Kontakt 5.5.1 to used it in Cubase is very stable, and reaper x64 directly uses 64-bit kontakt, I think it should be more smooth than cubase 5.

The 6 virtual instruments are:
Ilya Acoustic Guitar
Ilya TC Guitar
Abbey Road 80's Kits
Kontakt Library Strings Ensemble
Kontakt Library E-Piano
Ilya Morden Bass


Hope this info is enough for resolving the issue.
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Old 07-25-2016, 04:23 AM   #6
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Would be worth updating to the current version of Kontakt before you start fiddling with anything else.
I think it is er um 5.5.2.8 or similar?

Also, have you tried running one instance of Kontakt and routing your various instrument MIDI & audio output of library to different outputs for each library? More efficient use of resources and coincidentally the way most of us do it.
The only Kontakt libraries I have in common with is the factory one, so I cant really try to reproduce your problem.

You said that the project you are having problems with "can be played with some instruments dropping sounds". Might help if you could be more specific about what is getting dropped... Surely this isn`t as simple as note stealing combined with (hardly dare suggest this) you having core parking engaged in windows? What is the performance meter in Reaper saying when you have all the plugs loaded and running? What does your Windows Performance tab show in Task Manager when the project is running?

And an obvious one I forgot to ask: What are you using for an Audio/MIDI interface and are you using its ASIO driver?
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Old 07-25-2016, 04:26 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivansc View Post
Would be worth updating to the current version of Kontakt before you start fiddling with anything else.
I think it is er um 5.2.8 or similar?
I think I might try you advice if I get Kontakt 5.2.8.

And ....
I tried to freeze all the virtual instrument tracks and unfreeze them one by one.

After I unfreezed the 4th one, reaper freezed again.

And the phisical memory is still remaining 44%. It should not causes such low-memory-like issue when I doing this.


I also tried to completely uninstall reaper, reboot system, install repaer without any extensions(without sws, without ReaPack), and the issus still exists.

I also tried to install as portable.

Last edited by eviluess; 07-25-2016 at 07:12 AM.
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Old 07-25-2016, 07:19 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivansc View Post
Not sure what you did but neither unzipping with winzip or 7zip works on those files - they all come up as "not valid".

And fwiw nobody else seems to get bad stability with Reaper, quite the opposite.
Tell us a little more about your setup and what -if any - plugins you are using.
Are you on Mac or PC what cpu what ram and what operating system (inc 32 or 64bit)
Will the project actually play normally, even if you cant access the FX?
Are the recordings actual audio of real instruments or Virtual Instrument plugins?

Hey, I upload the project to http://ul.to/c2v7e7k9

I hope you can unpack it this time.

Thanks!
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Old 07-25-2016, 09:37 AM   #9
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Gave up after it had made me wait 30 seconds and then STILL shuffled me off to yet another ad site.

You don`t have dropbox????
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Old 07-25-2016, 11:08 AM   #10
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As I don't own the full version of Kontakt, neither the instruments you used this may be of little help. Anyway, I used the latest Kontakt Player(64) with Instruments of the factory selection. No problems here. Win 10 Pro.
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Old 07-25-2016, 04:05 PM   #11
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OP you forgot to tell us this: "And an obvious one I forgot to ask: What are you using for an Audio/MIDI interface and are you using its ASIO driver?"

If your ram usage is at over 40% and you are trying to do this on an internal soundcard I would be amazed if you didnt have problems.

I didnt think to ask you what ASIO buffer size you are using either.
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Old 07-25-2016, 06:48 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivansc View Post
OP you forgot to tell us this: "And an obvious one I forgot to ask: What are you using for an Audio/MIDI interface and are you using its ASIO driver?"

If your ram usage is at over 40% and you are trying to do this on an internal soundcard I would be amazed if you didnt have problems.

I didnt think to ask you what ASIO buffer size you are using either.

The RAM used over 50% because of the heavy load of Virtual Instruments, and the same situation is in Cubase but cubase won't get frozon and reaper does.

I don't have a standalone Audio Interface, I just used the ASIO4ALL and the integrated SoundCard (RealTek High Definition Audio).

Besides, I also tried WaveOut, DirectSound, WASAPI, ASIO(4ALL) in Reaper but it doesn't help.

I'll try to upload to dropbox, with Cubase project, MIDI file, audio file, and reaper project.
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Old 07-26-2016, 12:15 AM   #13
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Game over.
ASIO4ALL is only going to get you so far and I think you just got there.
FWIW I dont have a clue about Cubase - tried the demo several times and never got on with it - so I have no idea why Cubase isn`t choking, or indeed whether or not you are comparing apples with pears here.
Also your 50% ram usage isn`t what I asked about. What percentage CPU usage is reaper showing when it is running?
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Old 07-26-2016, 12:53 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivansc View Post
Game over.
ASIO4ALL is only going to get you so far and I think you just got there.
FWIW I dont have a clue about Cubase - tried the demo several times and never got on with it - so I have no idea why Cubase isn`t choking, or indeed whether or not you are comparing apples with pears here.
Also your 50% ram usage isn`t what I asked about. What percentage CPU usage is reaper showing when it is running?

Fine, I collected the data, please see below:

1. Quit As many as possible application: CPU 2%, RAM used 5.32 GB (33%)

2. Start Reaper, load the project, wait until the ram stop growing: CPU 2%, RAM used 7.73 GB (48%)


Besides, I also tried to use ASIO/WASAPI/DirectSound/WaveOut audio interface in reaper and the issue could not get resolved.

3. Click the FX button on Guitar, reaper is NOT RESPONDING: CPU 3%, RAM used 7.75 GB (48%). CPU & RAM didn't grow during this period. I've been waiting and watching over 2 minutes.

4. Terminate Reaoer in the Task manager, and wait until the CPU and RAM usage goes stable:
CPU 1%, RAM used 5.46 GB (34%)

5. In the same computer, Start Cubase 5, load the adapted project, and wait until the Ram stop growing:
CPU 1%, RAM used 8.82 GB (55%)

6. Click each "e" button to show the kontakt UI and all are OK to show, and the playback is smooth.


Besides, I also tried WaveOut, DirectSound, WASAPI, ASIO(4ALL) in Reaper but it doesn't help.

Last edited by eviluess; 07-26-2016 at 02:30 AM.
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Old 07-26-2016, 03:41 AM   #15
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What plug-ins exactly are you using on the "Guitar" track that triggers the issue?
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Old 07-26-2016, 04:17 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie View Post
What plug-ins exactly are you using on the "Guitar" track that triggers the issue?
Only Kontakt 5.5.1 (x64)

And all other virtual instrument track causes this issue.
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Old 07-26-2016, 04:32 AM   #17
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Open the project, from the "Open project" window, with the FX off-line. Thne put them on-line one at a time. Let us know how that goes.
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Old 07-26-2016, 04:43 AM   #18
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Can you still disable multiprocessor support in Kontakt? Is Kontakt set to "save minimal undo states" (right-click Kontakt in the FX browser)?
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Old 07-26-2016, 07:18 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkStar View Post
Open the project, from the "Open project" window, with the FX off-line. Thne put them on-line one at a time. Let us know how that goes.
Followed your instruction, and it could reach the 5th Virtual Instrument and was hung at the 6th.


I terminated reaper and did it again, still hung at the 6th.

I terminated reaper and did it again, this time I activated the virtual instruments reversely, and all of them are opened. BUT finally reaper was NOT RESPONDING.

Hope this info useful.
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Old 07-26-2016, 07:28 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie View Post
Can you still disable multiprocessor support in Kontakt? Is Kontakt set to "save minimal undo states" (right-click Kontakt in the FX browser)?
Can you still disable multiprocessor support in Kontakt?

-- I set the miltiprocessor from 8 to off, and exited reaper, launch reaper, load the project. click on the FX button, it was fine to show all the kontakt window. However, when I try to play by pressing the spacebar, reaper was NOT RESPONDING again. But after about 8 seconds it started playback. Seemed sweet. So this is the multiprocessor issue? I had to say here, Cubase 5 is all ok when the multiprocessor option is set to 8.

Is Kontakt set to "save minimal undo states" (right-click Kontakt in the FX browser)?

-- No, the option is unchecked.
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Old 07-26-2016, 07:52 AM   #21
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^^^
Try checking that option. Then retry my suggestion and Ollie's suggestion.
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Old 07-26-2016, 08:21 AM   #22
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Quote:
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^^^
Try checking that option. Then retry my suggestion and Ollie's suggestion.

With the "minimal" option checked, and load the project in FX-offline mode:

1. Multiprocessor = 8: hung at the 3rd virtual instrument

2. Multiprocessor = off: hung at the 3rd virtual instrument
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Old 08-05-2016, 05:40 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eviluess View Post
With the "minimal" option checked, and load the project in FX-offline mode:

1. Multiprocessor = 8: hung at the 3rd virtual instrument

2. Multiprocessor = off: hung at the 3rd virtual instrument


After I moved all the virtual instruments to SSD, the problem get resolved.

Compared to Cubase 5 (32-bit), all the virtual instruments in used can be stored in NON-SSD and the Kontakts can show normally.

I couldn't find other solutions on this issue.
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Old 08-05-2016, 06:15 PM   #24
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I found this thread has been marked as [SOLVED] and actually it's not.

I forgot to report the result when setting kontakt in separate process:

With this option checked, reaper is fine, but reaper_host64.exe will halt and reside in the task list and even ban be able to terminate!

I have to reboot the system to get the memory back.

I also tried the dedicated mode, this time reaper_host64.exe will be created 6 times, but seams stabler than other modes.

However, when more than one track uses same instrument, such as XXX drums, the memory will be doubled compared to other modes.

In separate or native mode, Kontakt will share the memory among instnaces when loading same virtual instruments.

If I have to use Kontakt in reaper under dedicated mode, I prefer continue to use Cubase 5 with jbridge.

Last edited by eviluess; 08-05-2016 at 07:34 PM.
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Old 08-10-2016, 02:52 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eviluess View Post
After I moved all the virtual instruments to SSD, the problem get resolved.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eviluess View Post
I found this thread has been marked as [SOLVED] and actually it's not.
???

Quote:
Originally Posted by eviluess View Post
I prefer continue to use Cubase 5 with jbridge.
Then by all means do it!
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Old 08-11-2016, 01:23 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoulOne82 View Post
???



Then by all means do it!
Although I left a post containing "the problem get resolved" but it's after all the virtual instruments moved to SSD.

So if this is caused by my HDD.
However, when the HDD is so bad to make reaper halt, it's fine in Cubase 5, with all other conditions same.

I can hardly believe the HDD is working wrong. I had even done a deep disk check on the HDD and everything is fine.

And also, I post another thread to announce that I am willing to install a debug version to help reaper resolve this issue.

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=180172
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Old 08-11-2016, 03:43 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eviluess View Post

-- I set the miltiprocessor from 8 to off, and exited reaper, launch reaper, load the project. click on the FX button, it was fine to show all the kontakt window. However, when I try to play by pressing the spacebar, reaper was NOT RESPONDING again. But after about 8 seconds it started playback. Seemed sweet.
Unless you have a system with 8 physical cores, try '4'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eviluess View Post
Is Kontakt set to "save minimal undo states" (right-click Kontakt in the FX browser)?

-- No, the option is unchecked.
Well, check it then!

Also, try reducing the number of instances by using the multi-timbral properties of Kontakt and its multiple outputs.
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Old 08-11-2016, 05:29 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie View Post
Unless you have a system with 8 physical cores, try '4'.



Well, check it then!

Also, try reducing the number of instances by using the multi-timbral properties of Kontakt and its multiple outputs.
Yes, i4790 has 8 cores.

For this project, each kontakt only activates its first stereo pair, no extra audio outputs are activated.

And the option "save minimal undo steps" is not helping whether it's checked or not.

Last edited by eviluess; 08-11-2016 at 05:41 AM.
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Old 08-11-2016, 11:20 AM   #29
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Yes, i4790 has 8 cores.

For this project, each kontakt only activates its first stereo pair, no extra audio outputs are activated.

And the option "save minimal undo steps" is not helping whether it's checked or not.

i4790 has 4 real physical cores, not 8. i4790k is the same.
No idea if this will help or not, but thought you should know, just in case.
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Old 08-11-2016, 10:15 PM   #30
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Quote:
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i4790 has 4 real physical cores, not 8. i4790k is the same.
No idea if this will help or not, but thought you should know, just in case.
Set to 4 cores, and try other option combination, issue still exists.
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Old 08-11-2016, 10:22 PM   #31
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Damn! This is turning into one of those things where it would be nice to sit next to you at your computer and see what the hell is going on.
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Old 08-14-2016, 07:35 AM   #32
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One more result:

I copy the project and portable reaper to another computer, here's its system and hardware info:

Windows 7x64 Pro, 32 GB DDR 3, Intel i7 4770K running without overclocking. SSD * 2.
And all of the virtual instruments in use are copied to the NON-SSD.

Kontakt 5.5.1 x64 in Native Mode, "Save minimal undo states" is UNCHECKED.

Everything is FINE.

Now, the System, Reaper, Kontakt, Libraries, Storage and project are completely same except the RAM (32GB vs 16GB). Could this be the problem?

I don't think the project needs 32GB ram to run.

I already checked the DFD option of kontakt, they are same (60KB).
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Old 08-14-2016, 09:25 AM   #33
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looking more and more like you have an issue on that original computer then.

Just so we know exactly what the baseline is, are you using the same Audio MIDI interface for both computers?
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Old 08-14-2016, 10:25 AM   #34
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Now, the System, Reaper, Kontakt, Libraries, Storage and project are completely same except the RAM (32GB vs 16GB). Could this be the problem?

I don't think the project needs 32GB ram to run.
Check closely in the Resource Monitor / Task Manager what resources are used on that system. And let us know.
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Old 08-14-2016, 06:48 PM   #35
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Quote:
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Check closely in the Resource Monitor / Task Manager what resources are used on that system. And let us know.
As post before, CPU lower than 6%, RAM lower than 9GB ( with about 4GB increasement after the project loaded). Phisical RAM is 16GB.
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Old 08-16-2016, 02:01 AM   #36
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Upgraded to 5.32 x64, portable install, overwriting the original folder.
Issue gets resolved.

Should I celebrate?
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Old 08-16-2016, 05:43 AM   #37
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Would be well worth comparing the old and new .ini files just in case it is something weird in your settings?

But.... YAY! for a solution.
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Old 08-16-2016, 08:06 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivansc View Post
Would be well worth comparing the old and new .ini files just in case it is something weird in your settings?

But.... YAY! for a solution.
I'll do this recently. I have a lot of new job to finish these days.
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Old 08-25-2016, 04:28 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by eviluess View Post
I'll do this recently. I have a lot of new job to finish these days.
Strange, both the portable pre-version and the new version won't freeze any more.
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