Go Back   Cockos Incorporated Forums > REAPER Forums > REAPER General Discussion Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-18-2018, 02:05 PM   #1
deeb
Human being with feelings
 
deeb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 4,812
Default any cassetes heads here? marantz PMD 221 vs Tascam portas

hello! i will buy a portable recorder.
I am thinking in Marantz PMD 221 or Tascam Porta 02 or Tascam Portastudio 424 MKIII.
I wonder if anyone knows, In exclusive terms of recording sound quality which will have better results?

thank you
deeb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2018, 05:33 PM   #2
Philbo King
Human being with feelings
 
Philbo King's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 3,201
Default

I'm not very familiar with either of these machines.

The multitrack cassette formats are somewhat comprimised in quality.That can be minimized by using the highest tape speed available, and using metal oxide tape if you can find any and if the tape machine supports it. And regular cleaning of the tape head and tape path with pure isopropyl alchohol with a cotton or foam swab.

Off topic, I still have a rackmount Teac C3 cassette machine from the 1970s that still works very well, though I don't use it much any more. I used to use it for stereo mixdowns from 4 track reel-to-reel.
Philbo King is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2018, 06:04 PM   #3
DogBBQ
Human being with feelings
 
DogBBQ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: New, New York
Posts: 221
Default Nakamichi MR-1

I have a Nakamichi MR-1 I'd Sell if you're interested
DogBBQ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2018, 07:02 PM   #4
lunker
Human being with feelings
 
lunker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Lucas, TX, USA (via Luleå, Sweden)
Posts: 2,008
Default

I’m not familiar with the Marantz, but I absolutely loved my Tascam 488 MkII.

I’d probably still be using it today if I hadn’t found out about VST/VSTi and switched to Reaper.
__________________
Best Regards, Ernie "lunker" Lundqvist
BDSM (Bad Dog Studio Musicians)
Windows 10 running on Z390 + i7-8700
lunker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2018, 07:25 PM   #5
Not_Here
Human being with feelings
 
Not_Here's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: West Coast - Sun, Sun, and more Sun
Posts: 719
Default

I used a 488 Portastudio a long while ago.
Tascam had a nice unit and they were pretty easy to use and do bouce and mixdowns on. Had to really think ahead back then, generation loss and all. Metal tapes (chromium oxide?) were the tapes of choice but definitely not more than 60 min tapes. I seem to remember on the longer length tapes it was a thinner tape construction and didn't stand up as well to repeated record passes. The rewind and FF wasn't good for those 120 min tapes.

just lookin at a pic of one, can't believe I recorded a 5 song demo on one, when I'm sitting here with Reaper.

I'm biased probably cuz of the nostalgic. But I say go Tascam.
__________________
Rockin the Not_Room... Kali LP6 |iLoud |Mackie Big Knob |AXE I/O |Bugera |Ibanez |Fender |Nektar |Amplitube |PRS Supermodels |iRig Stomp I/O |ARC 3.0 |

Last edited by Not_Here; 03-18-2018 at 07:32 PM.
Not_Here is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2018, 07:32 PM   #6
Swamp Ape
Human being with feelings
 
Swamp Ape's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Asheville NC
Posts: 1,335
Default

I've got a Tascam 414 that still sounds great all these years later. There's so much mojo in those little machines.
Swamp Ape is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2018, 07:36 PM   #7
sickamorz
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Philippines
Posts: 741
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by deeb View Post
hello! i will buy a portable recorder.
I am thinking in Marantz PMD 221 or Tascam Porta 02 or Tascam Portastudio 424 MKIII.
I wonder if anyone knows, In exclusive terms of recording sound quality which will have better results?

thank you

Why not use digital recorder that uses digital media, that can also interface with reaper?
Just curious why you would want to use cassette?
sickamorz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2018, 08:17 PM   #8
Mind Riot
Human being with feelings
 
Mind Riot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,008
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Not_Here View Post
just lookin at a pic of one, can't believe I recorded a 5 song demo on one, when I'm sitting here with Reaper.
I did two albums on one with my high school band.

Four channels of drums, two hard panned rhythm guitars, one bass, and one lead vocal. If we wanted a guitar solo or vocal harmony it was off to bounce-ville while trying to outrun the hiss monster by nailing everything in as few takes as possible.

Being under the gun like that certainly forces you to get things done. Now I'm messing around in Reaper on my twentieth re-amped guitar sound on ONE SONG.
__________________
"Mah blahkinned sole izz daw-kaw thawn thah blahkissed nye-eeeet!!!"
SQUONK SQUONK SQUEE!!! SQUIDONK SQUIDONK DONK SQUEE!!!
"Thah daaahhhk of thah nye-eeeet izz lye-eeek my-eee sole-aaah!!!"
Mind Riot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2018, 09:34 PM   #9
ChristopherT
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: South
Posts: 587
Default

I did many albums on a Tascam 244 more than 30 years ago

I have fond memories of the sound, and the (fun) process of working with only 4 tracks.
Everything was about committing, not about future choices.
This was very good homework for how I still approach working today.

As mentioned above - good metal tapes made a big difference, in how much level they could take, and signal to noise ratio much improved.

If I was now looking to get another one - I would be looking at the top of the line Tascam options.
Plus there would be much more spare parts around than the Marantz
ChristopherT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2018, 09:58 PM   #10
Liquid Fusion
Human being with feelings
 
Liquid Fusion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: New York City
Posts: 659
Default

Tascam 122MKIII = 3 head mastering cassette deck = excellent sound

2 trks - bought one in late 80's. Still going great!! One minor repair for opening cassette door mechanism.
Liquid Fusion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2018, 01:07 AM   #11
somebodyelseuk
Human being with feelings
 
somebodyelseuk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Birmingham, UK
Posts: 1,125
Default

I've owned and used a Tascam Porta 07 for the last 25+ years.
Neither is going to get anywhere close to the sound reproduction quality of a new, budget end, digital recorder, and the recordings are going to degrade after every run through of the tape.
On top of that, in order to maintain the very best sound quality, the heads and associated mechanisms need cleaning before AND after every use. Tapes are expensive, delicate and unpredictable.
If you're buying used, there's an even chance that the drive belt, capstan and/or heads may need replacing - if the parts are still available.
I cannot think of a single reason to use either of these over a laptop and interface.
__________________
"As long as I stay between the sun & my shadow, I guess I'm doing well."

Last edited by somebodyelseuk; 03-19-2018 at 01:21 AM.
somebodyelseuk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2018, 03:25 AM   #12
Dr Bob
Human being with feelings
 
Dr Bob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Yorkshire, UK
Posts: 2,063
Default

still got my Tascam 244 up in the attic. Replaced the record head and tape transport buttons plus the microswitches below. All easy to do and spares were OK to get (which surprised me!).

Still performed very well indeed. Careful planning needed for bouncing as has been said. Even had 2 phones outputs then!

For a multitrack do not use the 120min tapes, too thin and you get tangles or print through. Metal tape ideally. 60min at worst.

Now use an AW16G for basic field recording + mixer front end to do mic 48v and simple EQ before recording!

Tape was fun, and multitrack even better. Much harder when you had reel-to-reel half track Revoxes!

dB
Dr Bob is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2018, 03:29 AM   #13
ChristopherT
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: South
Posts: 587
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by somebodyelseuk View Post
I cannot think of a single reason to use either of these over a laptop and interface.
How about - the sound of cassette is very different to digital.
Same reason as many people still use quarter / half/ 1/ 2 inch tape - and in some quarters - dictaphone tapes.
People still mix to 1/4 inch and half inch.
Mastering facilities still transfer digital to 1/2 & 1/4 inch - and then remake a digital master

Technically - none of them are "better" than a good AD DA

Heck - some people even release music on Vinyl

Colours
ChristopherT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2018, 07:19 AM   #14
martifingers
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 2,694
Default

From memory wasn't the Marantz a mono machine (if that matters)? I used one in a n educational setting for radio/speech recordings. Was reliable and sound quality good for a cassette system. Replaced very quickly by minidisc though back in the day (1996!)
martifingers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2018, 07:34 AM   #15
deeb
Human being with feelings
 
deeb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 4,812
Default

Thank you all for the input!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristopherT View Post
I did many albums on a Tascam 244 more than 30 years ago

I have fond memories of the sound, and the (fun) process of working with only 4 tracks.
Everything was about committing, not about future choices.
This was very good homework for how I still approach working today.
nice! it's a wonderful approach. : )

Quote:
Originally Posted by sickamorz View Post
Why not use digital recorder that uses digital media, that can also interface with reaper?
Just curious why you would want to use cassette?
I am looking for a different color , hiss , tape saturation and probably will make a tape delay effect with it : )
deeb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2018, 07:40 AM   #16
deeb
Human being with feelings
 
deeb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 4,812
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by martifingers View Post
From memory wasn't the Marantz a mono machine (if that matters)? I used one in a n educational setting for radio/speech recordings. Was reliable and sound quality good for a cassette system. Replaced very quickly by minidisc though back in the day (1996!)
conversations recorder in marantz makes me travel in time
deeb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2018, 07:51 AM   #17
serr
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 12,559
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DogBBQ View Post
I have a Nakamichi MR-1 I'd Sell if you're interested
Me too but absolutely not for sale!

Not portable either but I'd highly recommend it.

If the aim is to play with the old technology just for that then anything goes and have fun! If one was looking for the most bang for the buck in performance with a portable device, digital wins nowadays. Back in the 1980's & 90's, a portable analog cassette device would better most (all?) of the portable DAT decks. It's the polar opposite now in the days of 24 bit HD and much better AD converters.

The Tascam "Porta" products were not so much handheld style portable. They were these smaller toy-like cheap things (like a low end boombox). A clumsy combination with the ability to multitrack but just shockingly poor fidelity.
serr is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2018, 08:10 AM   #18
karbomusic
Human being with feelings
 
karbomusic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,260
Default

Quote:
The Tascam "Porta" products were not so much handheld style portable. They were these smaller toy-like cheap things (like a low end boombox). A clumsy combination with the ability to multitrack but just shockingly poor fidelity.
Most ran at twice the speed of standard cassette players and better quality than normal stereo cassette players. Bruce Springsteen's Nebraska was recorded on one - that's very obvious listening to it, but it does go to show the power of the music can have over the medium. The quality is no comparison to today, but I couldn't say they were toys in the market they were sold in at the time. Since they ran in the $300-$700 range, it was a while before I was even able to afford one. They won many an artist record deals (used for demo purposes) so they could then go into a pro studio - a need that is much less in 2018.

For the tape delay idea...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABU-psBnmxk

There is a thread about it on diystompboxes.com but can't seem to find it.
__________________
Music is what feelings sound like.
karbomusic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2018, 08:29 AM   #19
serr
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 12,559
Default

I hadn't considered the demo idea. That makes sense in hindsight and explains where the price tag came from then.

I had my hands on a few of these. Maybe there was a top of the line model I just never saw? The ones I played with would only take normal bias tape (not even the cheap chrome tapes!) and the quality was nowhere near a decent cassette deck.

I would have had zero engineering skills at the time. I imagine a little production skill and a few outboard devices would have let you get away with something though. Like apparently Bruce Springsteen did!
serr is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2018, 09:18 AM   #20
logic7
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 22
Default

The 424 MKIII was pretty good as far as 4 track cassette machines go. But in all honesty, if you can find a Fostex 380S for cheap then it would be faaaaaar better sonically. The 380S had Dolby S noise reduction and, afaik, it's the only cassette multi-track that did. Noise is borderline non-existent on those things. I wanted one but I had a need for 8 tracks and I got a deal on a Tascam 688 with the sync box for the same price as a then new 380S. Couldn't pass that up.
logic7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2018, 11:07 AM   #21
drichard
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 584
Default

Given the age of any machine you buy, the condition it's in will probably have more effect on the sound quality than which model you choose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deeb View Post
hello! i will buy a portable recorder.
I am thinking in Marantz PMD 221 or Tascam Porta 02 or Tascam Portastudio 424 MKIII.
I wonder if anyone knows, In exclusive terms of recording sound quality which will have better results?

thank you
drichard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2018, 05:10 PM   #22
Swamp Ape
Human being with feelings
 
Swamp Ape's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Asheville NC
Posts: 1,335
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
Bruce Springsteen's Nebraska was recorded on one - that's very obvious listening to it, but it does go to show the power of the music can have over the medium.
Springsteen also accidentally went swimming with the master tape still in his pocket! There's a ton of funny anecdotes surrounding that album.
Swamp Ape is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2018, 10:59 PM   #23
Mind Riot
Human being with feelings
 
Mind Riot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,008
Default

I was a little hesitant to dive into the world of PC DAW recording when I was younger, so after the Tascam 488 MKII era I bought first one Tascam 788 digital multitrack, then a second. They synced up with MTC for some fun 16 track action, which of course felt like an endless expanse of potential after working with 8 tracks for so long.

Some good came out of their limitations too though. They only had very basic effects so I learned to use them well and when to use nothing at all. I didn't build my first audio PC until 2007, and ended up with Reaper almost from the very beginning because the bundled copy of Sonar that came with my interface locked up when I tried to add the first track to a project.

(looks at calendar)

HOLY CRAP, I'VE BEEN USING REAPER FOR OVER A DECADE. *head explodes*
__________________
"Mah blahkinned sole izz daw-kaw thawn thah blahkissed nye-eeeet!!!"
SQUONK SQUONK SQUEE!!! SQUIDONK SQUIDONK DONK SQUEE!!!
"Thah daaahhhk of thah nye-eeeet izz lye-eeek my-eee sole-aaah!!!"
Mind Riot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2018, 05:16 PM   #24
hangnef
Human being with feelings
 
hangnef's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 69
Default

I have both and the Marantz definitely sounds clearer, etc. I personally like the sound of my Tascam 424 mkii, especially the preamps when driven a bit. Was hoping to get that out of the Marantz by piping my DAW output through it since it is 3 head system.
hangnef is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2018, 12:08 PM   #25
deeb
Human being with feelings
 
deeb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 4,812
Default

@hangnef! meanwhile i'll got the marantz : ) It won't get sound of the preamps when driven a bit at all?
i bought a sherman filter bank too. i wonder if it will get anything on that area... tascam will be other time now.

Last edited by deeb; 03-21-2018 at 05:32 PM.
deeb is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:51 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.