Snap relative and absolute grid simultaneously?

[Scoox]

Just wondering if this is possible. In Ableton Live items and notes snap to visible grid lines and also to the invisible relative grid which is relative to the items initial position. In Studio One these are also made mutually exclusive, but it's an artificial constraint, absolute and relative snap can happily coexist.

[Trancit]

I am not 100% sure what your question is...

In Reaper you´ve got relative snapping too...

Rightclick the snap icon in the main toolbar (right above the TCP) to enter the Snap/Grid settings... under Snap Settings in the first line on the right hand side you´ve got "Snap relative to Grid"

[beingmf]

Sure. But there's items you want to snap relative, and there's other items you want straight on the grid. All in the same project.

OP, I feel you. Snapping (audio as well as midi) behaviour is probably my only gripe with Reaper, even after so many years getting (not) used to it.

[Scoox]

Originally Posted by Trancit

I am not 100% sure what your question is...

In Reaper you´ve got relative snapping too...

Rightclick the snap icon in the main toolbar (right above the TCP) to enter the Snap/Grid settings... under Snap Settings in the first line on the right hand side you´ve got "Snap relative to Grid"

This sort of response is quite common, and I don't blame—you obviously have not explored snap, perhaps because you don't use it that much, or certainly not to the depth that some of us do. Of course, just because it appears to meet your needs doesn't mean it's perfect. In some cases users get so used to how things work in their DAW that they don't realise there are better solutions out there.

Originally Posted by beingmf

Sure. But there's items you want to snap relative, and there's other items you want straight on the grid. All in the same project.

OP, I feel you. Snapping (audio as well as midi) behaviour is probably my only gripe with Reaper, even after so many years getting (not) used to it.

To be fair, the current system is not that bad compared with other DAWs I use, but it's unfortunate that Reaper gives us a whole bunch of options to tweak snap and it still manages to miss this one important thing. Meanwhile, Ableton Live offers zero options (other than snap grid size) and still manages to get it right.

[Trancit]

Originally Posted by beingmf

Sure. But there's items you want to snap relative, and there's other items you want straight on the grid. All in the same project.

...

Perhaps I do not understand but

1. if the "original position" of an item is on the grid it still snaps to the grid
2. with relative snapping enabled items snap to the grid, relative to the grid (if there are items which are not on the grid)... to the cursor if you wish...
3. there is an action to toggle relative snapping on/off

What are you missing here???

[Scoox]

Originally Posted by Trancit

1. if the "original position" of an item is on the grid it still snaps to the grid

Correct. But that's one case out of an infinite number of possible cases.

Originally Posted by Trancit

2. with relative snapping enabled items snap to the grid, relative to the grid (if there are items which are not on the grid)... to the cursor if you wish...

Not sure that's correct. With relative snap enabled, and the way it's currently implemented, items snap only to the 'relative grid', which is the same as the visible grid plus or minus an offset. The point is that Reaper artificially makes absolute snap (the kind of snap that happens when relative is disabled) and relative mutually exclusive, that is, if relative is ON then absolute cannot happen. Clearly that's illogical. In Ableton both snap modes can happen simultaneously, here's a screen capture showing what this looks like:



You can see how the item always snaps to both the grids and to the relative grid. I don't think there's any need to explain what is meant by 'relative snap', it's fairly self-explanatory.

To fix this doesn't require any GUI modifications, it's just a case of removing the artificial constraint from the code, so when the relative snap checkbox is ticked, absolute snap continues to work.

Originally Posted by Trancit

3. there is an action to toggle relative snapping on/off

Yes, and in Ableton Live the same thing is achieved without any actions at all. Less actions to deal with = better.

Originally Posted by Trancit

What are you missing here???

You are missing on simplicity, workflow and ergonomics.

[Trancit]

Originally Posted by Scoox

...

You are missing on simplicity, workflow and ergonomics.

Hmmm, I don´t know if one keystroke to toggle between these 2 states is that cumbersome in terms of simplicity, workflow and ergonomics...

I am pretty sure there are situations too where Reapers system works better than having always all options enabled...

[Scoox]

Originally Posted by Trancit

Hmmm, I don´t know if one keystroke to toggle between these 2 states is that cumbersome in terms of simplicity, workflow and ergonomics...

I am pretty sure there are situations too where Reapers system works better than having always all options enabled...

Exactly. There are four combinations:

1. Both absolute and relative OFF
2. Absolute ON, relative OFF
3. Absolute OFF, relative ON
4. Both absolute and relative ON

I personally have no use for 2 and 3, but if you find having too many snap points distracting you might prefer having just absolute or relative enabled in which case 2 and 3 are nice to have. 1 is basically snap off completely, which we already have, and 4 gets you a 'best of both worlds', because you get both relative and absolute snap points. It's not rocket science really, you just keep dragging the media item till it lines up where you want it to be. With Ableton's adaptive grid, it works exceptionally well. I say that and I don't even like Ableton Live. People who use snap normally have snap enabled the whole time and temporarily bypass by holding down a modifier key (in Reaper it's Shift by default).