Old 12-16-2018, 11:14 AM   #1
sjb66
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Default Recording Bass Guitar

Been trying to get a good Bass Guitar sound,

Using an Eastwood Classic 4, A Tech 21 Bass Driver EQ PLugin, Compressor Plugin,Gain if Needed Noie reduction you name it and still it sounds like Crap.
Any tips or suggestions? I want a good bass track before I do anything else,


THanks,
Karl
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Old 12-16-2018, 11:24 AM   #2
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Have you tried a Big Muff?
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Old 12-16-2018, 01:08 PM   #3
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No I haven't I was looking for a cleaner sound
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Old 12-16-2018, 01:13 PM   #4
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Give an example of the type of sound by genre. Maybe some tracks.
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Old 12-16-2018, 01:18 PM   #5
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Have you tried just clean DI to start with? Get a good tone with that, then if you want more pizazz have a parallel track blended in with more bells and whistles.

If you're going DI, then the clean signal should be most of the way there already. Can't polish a turd and all that.

An example of the sound you've already got and an example of the kind of sound you're going for would be helpful.
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Old 12-16-2018, 01:52 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjb66 View Post
Been trying to get a good Bass Guitar sound,

Using an Eastwood Classic 4, A Tech 21 Bass Driver EQ PLugin, Compressor Plugin,Gain if Needed Noie reduction you name it and still it sounds like Crap.
Any tips or suggestions? I want a good bass track before I do anything else,


THanks,
Karl
https://www.kuassa.com/products/cerb...amplifikation/

Hi Karl,

I DI my bass via a TC Impact Twin unit and use the Kuassa Cerberus plugin which in my opinion sounds very very good, is versatile and fairly affordable.

Greetings

Robert
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Old 12-16-2018, 02:57 PM   #7
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Bass professor can fix a LOT!
It's free u must try it!
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Old 12-16-2018, 03:34 PM   #8
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Tried new strings?

I'm a bass player - theres just too many variables without hearing what you've got to suggest changes.

You should be able to get big fat sounds out of just the bass plugged into an instrument input on an interface. Preamps, plugins etc are all for color and compression for the mix.

e.g. for comparison, direct in, no fx, brand new flat wound Rotosound 77s:
https://picosong.com/wgLCj/

But this is far from I have it in the mix. It's going through multiband comp, parallel comp, and transient shaping.

You'll notice a lot of string buzz. It's taken me many years to get over that since I would jam alone so much but for this recording I -lowered- the action to get that buzz. It cuts through the mix and behaves much more dynamically which is good for the song. You don't notice it as buzz. It fulfills what the 'grit' slider in Bassprofessor is doing so you don't have to dial in such drastic saturation to cut through.

Also I'm using a pick and a slight bit of muting with the fingers / palm.

Seconding Bassprofessor btw, awesome plugin. Grab all the plugins by that company (sonic anomaly). Quadracomp is awesome for bass and master tracks.

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Old 12-16-2018, 04:02 PM   #9
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I'm also a bass player - don't try new strings - unless you're after a lot of zing in your sound. Sounds like you're over processing it if you just want a clean sound.
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Old 12-16-2018, 04:07 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fergler View Post
Tried new strings?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dezb1 View Post
don't try new strings
Reminds me of the James Jamerson story.

I play bass but not a bass player though I have done so for 15+ years by now. I think the above is really up to style/taste, I'd want that zing/ping if I were playing something funk based, but not with other certain genres. I usually like fat, puffy and round and play with fingers about 99% of the time; but that's only because of the sound it provides.

Probably good to understand what "good bass sound" means to the OP (as Judders mentioned) and I do agree with all that if the basic tone can't be achieved with just the bass and the interface, it could be the instrument and/or the performance - recording bass can be real eyeopener FWIW.
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Old 12-16-2018, 05:22 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjb66 View Post
Been trying to get a good Bass Guitar sound,

Using an Eastwood Classic 4, A Tech 21 Bass Driver EQ PLugin, Compressor Plugin,Gain if Needed Noie reduction you name it and still it sounds like Crap.
Any tips or suggestions? I want a good bass track before I do anything else,


THanks,
Karl
just naming what gear/plugins you have helps us very little

maybe you could post a sound file of the bass tone you are getting and we could listen to it and offer tips?
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Old 12-17-2018, 12:56 AM   #12
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to be honest, it's totally irrelevant how the bass sounds UNTIL you hear it with all the other instruments.

Listen to JPJ's isolated bass tracks, trebly clank and grind, but in the mix it sounds deep and smooth.
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Old 12-17-2018, 01:12 AM   #13
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to be honest, it's totally irrelevant how the bass sounds UNTIL you hear it with all the other instruments.

Listen to JPJ's isolated bass tracks, trebly clank and grind, but in the mix it sounds deep and smooth.
Very true!

Same with any instrument.
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Old 12-17-2018, 10:51 AM   #14
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I plug both my short scale Gretsch Electromatic and 5-String long scale Stingray basses directly into one of these Digitech bass amp modeling pedals and then on into the sound card. I pretty much only use one factory pair of presets with some slight modification on my part. I use their SWR amp model and the associated eight 10" speaker model. By itself it sounds kind of grungy, but in a mix it sounds quite good, and I've had people comment on my bass sound more than several times. That said, drums is my main axe, but bass is my second instrument.

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Old 12-17-2018, 11:28 AM   #15
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Ring modulator.

Play it with a hairbrush.

Only play open notes.

Wear clean pants.
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Old 12-17-2018, 01:40 PM   #16
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Ring modulator.

Play it with a hairbrush.

Only play open notes.

Wear clean pants.
Best bass advice ever.

...except the last bit. I'm more into the brown sound.
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Old 12-17-2018, 03:11 PM   #17
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Borrow a Fender or Squier precision bass. Turn all knobs up full. DI it straight into your audio interface. That there is a good basic sound that works for a load of stuff. Use it as a basis for comparison.

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Old 12-17-2018, 04:13 PM   #18
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Try putting a high pass filter (HPF) on the front end, set around 60 Hz or a little lower. Clean the mud out before it hits Reaper.
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Old 12-17-2018, 04:50 PM   #19
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Try putting a high pass filter (HPF) on the front end, set around 60 Hz or a little lower. Clean the mud out before it hits Reaper.
I dunno, you're attenuating the fundamentals of a lot of notes that way. That's not mud down there for bass guitar, that's the actual pitch of the notes.
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Old 12-17-2018, 08:46 PM   #20
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I dunno, you're attenuating the fundamentals of a lot of notes that way. That's not mud down there for bass guitar, that's the actual pitch of the notes.
There is typically way too much down there though especially going DI in my experience

You are reducing the frequencies there, not eliminating them completely
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Old 12-17-2018, 10:39 PM   #21
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Softube Bass Amp Room, demo 20 days, use Direct zone only, sculpt the sound there, use Loudmax (free) limiter to bring the sound constant so you can hear better what you're doing, and maybe let it be within the mix. GG izzi.
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Old 12-17-2018, 11:28 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by endorka View Post
Borrow a Fender or Squier precision bass. Turn all knobs up full. DI it straight into your audio interface. That there is a good basic sound that works for a load of stuff. Use it as a basis for comparison.

Cheers,
Jennifer
This is what I do, but I roll the tone knob off just a tad. Love the P-Bass sound!
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Old 12-18-2018, 01:00 AM   #23
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Try putting a high pass filter (HPF) on the front end, set around 60 Hz or a little lower. Clean the mud out before it hits Reaper.
Live, you want a HPF set at around 65Hz to save your amp wasting a lot of it's energy trying to put out those lower frequencies that just produce mud in a live setting.

Recording-wise it's more a matter of a HPF to allow the kick drum it's own frequency zone below 100 or 80Hz, roughly

YMMV IMVHO
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Old 12-18-2018, 02:31 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by future fields View Post
There is typically way too much down there though especially going DI in my experience

You are reducing the frequencies there, not eliminating them completely
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bazzbass View Post
Live, you want a HPF set at around 65Hz to save your amp wasting a lot of it's energy trying to put out those lower frequencies that just produce mud in a live setting.

Recording-wise it's more a matter of a HPF to allow the kick drum it's own frequency zone below 100 or 80Hz, roughly

YMMV IMVHO
I'm sure this is right for how you work, but mileage certainly does vary!

How much level does your bass put out in the low lows? On which pickups? With the tone knobs in what configuration?

Just saying "HPF" doesn't tell us much - what filter type? What order of filter?

More importantly though, it depends on the musical arrangement. The bass drum doesn't always live below the bass guitar, sometimes you have more of a midrange knock with the bass taking the lower ground, you might be going for a more classic vibe with the bass drum not really occupying its own sonic space but acting more as an accent for the bass guitar, if you're playing modern metal then you're going to be all subs and upper-mid clang, if you're in a band with electronica elements you could have synthesised or pitch-shifted sub along with the fundamental pitches of your bass guitar...

Way too many variables to give one-size-fits-all solutions... and we haven't even mentioned that low B string yet!
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Old 12-18-2018, 11:09 AM   #25
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This is what I do, but I roll the tone knob off just a tad. Love the P-Bass sound!
Aye right enough, that's great for a mellower less clanky sound. It's hard to go wrong with a P-bass sound.

Cheers,
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Old 12-18-2018, 11:35 AM   #26
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I'm sure this is right for how you work, but mileage certainly does vary!
Since I agree to an extent, I've been hesitant to reply... I get you but a sine wave aka no harmonics @ 41hz (bass guitar low E) doesn't really have much pitch info the ear cares about to my ears anyway. You probably know I'm pretty much against HPFing anything without a real demonstrable need on a case-by-case basis but I'm not convinced the pitch of the notes is so much about the fundamental that low. Even if when I do feel the need, I'm going to try a small resonance dip or gentle shelf before sawing things off with an HPF (because I think it's often a perceived magic bullet panacea).

Obviously in some cases this does matter and again, I'm not HPFing anything I can't prove was 'the' improvement needed but with bass I'm less worried about pitch recognition simply because so much of that is provided by harmonics/overtones. So much so that plugins like RBass exploit that effect in reverse.

Slightly OT: Though I forget the artist, I heard something a few weeks ago where sub lows were part of the arrangement, as in low double or single digit Hz where you could hear the individual cycles more than a tone. It was enough to make me wonder what could be done if I did some math with Hz vs BPM vs Key of song for creative use.

Take care!
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Old 12-18-2018, 12:20 PM   #27
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Slightly OT: Though I forget the artist, I heard something a few weeks ago where sub lows were part of the arrangement, as in low double or single digit Hz where you could hear the individual cycles more than a tone. It was enough to make me wonder what could be done if I did some math with Hz vs BPM vs Key of song for creative use.
I think those are the parts when the audience starts to feel drowsiness and the sense of impending doom. Pretty sure I've been there once, being in a corner of the room during a set of a drone doom metal show, right in the middle of some unholy standing sub wave. Highly recommended.

(and OP still didn't post any samples)
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Old 12-18-2018, 12:27 PM   #28
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Actual subharmonics are generally only interesting for the way that they influence non-linearities in the mix path. Even if they're not filtered out before they get to the speakers, nobody will hear or even feel them. What they do is push the rest of the music toward the rails. You'll hear waves of compression or distortion on whatever it's mixed into. At least, at the extremes. Might give some interesting but almost undefinable movement at more subtle settings. In general they just waste headroom, but sometimes you can do that on purpose for effect.

The fundamentals of a bass guitar work about the same way from a headroom perspective. The way a bass tends to work is that the fundamental is a heck of a lot louder than any of the upper harmonics. If you want to hear those harmonics, and just keep turning it up until you can, the low end is going to be destroying everything, and if it actually hits some limit and starts distorting, you will only hear the distorted fundamental without much at all of the upper range detail.

But of course it completely depends on what you're trying to achieve and at the moment, I still have no idea WTF we're talking about.
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Old 12-18-2018, 12:31 PM   #29
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OT from the elusive first post:

As an aside, my example was a pop tune. I wish I remembered what it was but that sub wave was intentional, and not the bass instrument in the mix, it was a separate track for this single purpose IIRC - and it was low enough that it was as rhythmic as anything, I'd never have noticed to the extent that I did if my monitors didn't go fairly low and I was in the sweet spot for low end building up over on my couch in the studio. It's also not something I just happened to notice, someone here was asking about it and posted the link to the tune, that was a few months ago though.
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Old 12-18-2018, 12:31 PM   #30
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Since I agree to an extent, I've been hesitant to reply... I get you but a sine wave aka no harmonics @ 41hz (bass guitar low E) doesn't really have much pitch info the ear cares about to my ears anyway. You probably know I'm pretty much against HPFing anything without a real demonstrable need on a case-by-case basis but I'm not convinced the pitch of the notes is so much about the fundamental that low. Even if when I do feel the need, I'm going to try a small resonance dip or gentle shelf before sawing things off with an HPF (because I think it's often a perceived magic bullet panacea).
But, depending on the filer type and slope, you could easily be eating into the 1st harmonic too at 65Hz, and you definitely will if you're playing with an open low B string.

It might be just the thing to do in the mix, but advising to do it upstream of the DAW means you might have to EQ back in what you could have just recorded in the first place.

Also, again depending on the filter type and slope, a HPF at 65 Hz could well be adding unwanted bass resonance.

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Old 12-18-2018, 12:40 PM   #31
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...drone doom metal...
Oh now you're talking my language! I still just pound it through a reasonable simulation of an SVT, but I leave the Low knob turned up a bit. Sometimes I kick on a fuzz, but my job is mostly the low end rumble. Unfortunately I don't have a sub for my mobile rig.
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Old 12-18-2018, 12:43 PM   #32
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FWIW, I find the area around 100 Hz to be much more troublesome than below 50 Hz in general when it comes to bass guitars. More often than not I carve some of that out and possibly boost with a shelf around 50 - 60 Hz (depending on the bass) along with some low mids for punch, with possibly a first order Butterworth HPF with the corner frequency around 30 Hz, or a 2nd order Legendre HPF around 40 Hz.

It all depends on the part written, instrumentation and arrangement though.
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Old 12-18-2018, 12:53 PM   #33
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But, depending on the filer type and slope, you could easily be eating into the 1st harmonic too at 65Hz, and you definitely will if you're playing with an open low B string.

It might be just the thing to do in the mix, but advising to do it upstream of the DAW means you might have to EQ back in what you could have just recorded in the first place.

Also, again depending on the filter type and slope, a HPF at 65 Hz could well be adding unwanted bass resonance.
I agree... As I mentioned, it's not something I would do by default (I truly hate the "Just HPF and the mix will be magic" belief). I'm just not sure calling the fundamental as pitch component as the most important that relevant (to the extent my addition is probably a little off topic); I find it more troublesome dipping areas closer to the 2nd harmonic (if too steep) where you end up with notes appearing and disappearing based on how close they are to the dip (even with the lower stuff still intact) - it's a nitpick since we agree anyway about not blindly high passing down there.

Typically, I'm going to end up needing a band dip of a dB or 2 somewhere near the kick drum IF I think there is a problem, with a wider than narrower Q. YMMV and all - It's rare I'm going to HPF the bass anyway.
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Old 12-18-2018, 12:55 PM   #34
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to be honest, it's totally irrelevant how the bass sounds UNTIL you hear it with all the other instruments.

Listen to JPJ's isolated bass tracks, trebly clank and grind, but in the mix it sounds deep and smooth.
I agree also, if you hear isolated bass from classis tracks they don't always sound that great, and like someone else said start with just plain DI, and open tone controls on the bass, I think that's how a lot of classic rock was recorded.
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Old 12-18-2018, 01:15 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by sjb66 View Post
Been trying to get a good Bass Guitar sound,

Using an Eastwood Classic 4, A Tech 21 Bass Driver EQ PLugin, Compressor Plugin,Gain if Needed Noie reduction you name it and still it sounds like Crap.
Any tips or suggestions? I want a good bass track before I do anything else,


THanks,
Karl
Get another bassist to play it and record that. Does it still sound like ass? A lot of the tone is in the fingers...
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Old 12-18-2018, 01:48 PM   #36
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This was yet another Reaper forum drive by posting with a single reply from the OP; he or she could be really busy I suppose?

I wonder if existing users create new profiles just to ask nebulous questions to generate interesting threads then abandon them?
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Old 12-18-2018, 02:14 PM   #37
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I agree... As I mentioned, it's not something I would do by default (I truly hate the "Just HPF and the mix will be magic" belief). I'm just not sure calling the fundamental as pitch component as the most important that relevant (to the extent my addition is probably a little off topic); I find it more troublesome dipping areas closer to the 2nd harmonic (if too steep) where you end up with notes appearing and disappearing based on how close they are to the dip (even with the lower stuff still intact) - it's a nitpick since we agree anyway about not blindly high passing down there.

Typically, I'm going to end up needing a band dip of a dB or 2 somewhere near the kick drum IF I think there is a problem, with a wider than narrower Q. YMMV and all - It's rare I'm going to HPF the bass anyway.
Another takeaway from this is that all the advice has been different. Which should tell us something about how to skin cats.
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Old 12-18-2018, 02:45 PM   #38
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Another takeaway from this is that all the advice has been different. Which should tell us something about how to skin cats.
Tells us the OP gave us nothing even close to a context in which to make useful practical suggestions which is why I chose to go the absurdist route the whole way until I found something vaguely interesting and totally tangential to babble about for a minute.
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Old 12-18-2018, 02:47 PM   #39
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Tells us the OP gave us nothing even close to a context in which to make useful practical suggestions which is why I chose to go the absurdist route the whole way until I found something vaguely interesting and totally tangential to babble about for a minute.
So what's your favourite SVT sim?
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Old 12-18-2018, 03:02 PM   #40
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I'm fine with PodFarm honestly. The one in my Behringer VAmp worked well enough, too. It's really all about the EQ curve of the preamp and cabinet sandwiched around the distortion section. Live, I use two instances of ReaEQ with a JS saturation thing that I wrote in between and it honestly sounds just about as good as any other when it's set right.

That SVT sound is almost like cheating for anything on the somewhat louder side of the rock genre. I have to force myself to try other things a lot of the time almost only to say that I didn't just pull up the same preset as every other thing I've ever done.

It'd be completely wrong for a classic country track or like dub reggae. Actually, it could do that, too, if you turned the tone knobs some, but there's a reason it's labeled Rock Classic in most sims that haven't licensed the actual Ampeg name.

When I play bass, it usually needs nothing but the knobs on the amp. I'm not any kind of virtuoso, but I have pretty good dynamic control, and am pretty good at using my hands to get the tone I want.
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