Go Back   Cockos Incorporated Forums > REAPER Forums > REAPER Compatibility

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-18-2018, 11:03 AM   #1
abushumays
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 3
Default Record monitoring interferes with Rhythm player on MIDI keyboard Yamaha MX88

warning - complete newbie here on MIDI as well as on Reaper...

I am using a new Yamaha MX88 that has a rhythm pattern player & tempo button; 16 channels of MIDI with channel 10 reserved for the rhythms (as is typical I guess).

When I run the keyboard through a MIDI track on Reaper with record monitoring "off," and then record (or monitor) the audio from the keyboard on a separate track, the rhythm button works fine.

But if I have record monitoring "on" on the MIDI track then it interferes with the rhythm feature of the keyboard - it doesn't play at all, and if I click the tempo button, rather than showing tempo as usual, it simply shows the message "EXT" (which I am guessing is short for "external" - some kind of external control).

This wouldn't be an issue, except that one of the FX plugins I have been using - Alt-Tuner (http://www.tallkite.com/alt-tuner.html) depends on record monitoring being set to "on" in Reaper. So when I use alt-tuner I can't use the rhythms on the keyboard, and vice-versa.

I am guessing that I may have to ask this question over at Yamaha - but it would be great to know what kinds of MIDI messages (or whatever it is) are sent by the "record monitoring" feature in Reaper... or is it a clock issue??? I have no idea what I am talking about anyway.

Other details of my setup:
right now I am running the MX88 through a Focusrite Scarlett 18i8 audio interface (Midi I/O <==> as well as audio out MX88 ==> Focusrite), connected via USB to a laptop running Windows 10.

This issue was present before I got the audio interface, and was running the MX88 direct to the computer through its own USB port.

Also - I know that losing the ability to play the very basic out-of-the box rhythm patterns from the Yamaha isn't a great loss, if I were to seriously engage in music production. But right now I am getting my feet wet and doing it for fun and on the side of my real musical ventures, and I am trying to learn and figure out all of this stuff step by step, and haven't yet gotten to figuring out MIDI percussion instruments, using samples in Reaper, and all that good stuff...

plus I would like to understand how all this is working, and why something seemingly unrelated like Record Monitoring should interfere with a percussion MIDI feature.
abushumays is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2018, 11:37 AM   #2
domzy
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 4,823
Default

your keyboard is taking it's MIDI clock signal from reaper. There should be a setting on the keyboard for it not to respond to external clock and use it's own BPM.
domzy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2018, 11:42 AM   #3
domzy
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 4,823
Default

or switch off the MIDI clock being sent on your MIDI interface ("send clock..." in preferences / devices / midi)
domzy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2018, 11:53 AM   #4
domzy
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 4,823
Default

record monitoring is kind of like an on / off switch for the signal being monitored. In the same way that you won't hear audio on a track until it has monitoring enabled, the MIDI signal is not present until you enable monitoring.
domzy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2018, 03:27 PM   #5
ashcat_lt
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 7,271
Default

I don't think any clock Reaper might be sending depends on record monitoring being enabled. (???) I sort of suspect that the keyboard itself is sending a clock which gets echoed back through to its input and is detected as an external clock which then messes it up somehow. It's a weird sort of feedback loop.

Are there settings in the keyboard itself to tell it to ignore external clock?
ashcat_lt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2018, 04:02 PM   #6
domzy
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 4,823
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashcat_lt View Post
I don't think any clock Reaper might be sending depends on record monitoring being enabled. (???) I sort of suspect that the keyboard itself is sending a clock which gets echoed back through to its input and is detected as an external clock which then messes it up somehow. It's a weird sort of feedback loop.

Are there settings in the keyboard itself to tell it to ignore external clock?
yes, i was talking nonsense - clock doesn't depend on monitoring. Apologies to the OP.
I think you might be right with the feedback thing - it'd be interesting to see how it's routed. I've just re-read the original post and it seems like their might be a direct USB connection and MIDI through 5 pin DIN - maybe the yamaha is sending / receiving on 2 ports?
domzy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2018, 04:08 PM   #7
ashcat_lt
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 7,271
Default

It's probably waiting for an external start command. It sends a "heartbeat" that it then sees as evidence of external sync, which it then repeats or echoes but it also wants to wait for that external Start command which never comes because it's ignoring its own local Play button.

Probably if Reaper was set up to actually send the appropriate clock messages rather than echoing those coming through, it would work, but so would just blocking that clock signal on its way through Reaper, or even if you could turn it off at the source.
ashcat_lt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2018, 08:01 AM   #8
abushumays
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 3
Default

Hi folks thanks for the responses, I will look into the options you guys mentioned and report back how it works.

The "Feedback Loop" idea that the keyboard is sending its own clock which then gets sent back to it is highly plausible, because for the plug-in I am using, I have to send the midi back to the keyboard after it is processed (essentially alt-tuner works by sending midi pitch-bend messages back to the keyboard, in order to retune the keys).

So the routing for the Reaper track is MIDI input (from Focusrite USB if using the interface, or from Yamaha USB if going direct), and MIDI output back to the same place (Focusrite or Yamaha depending).

Anyway I will investigate clock settings on Yamaha and see what I can figure out. Thanks!
abushumays is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2018, 07:15 AM   #9
abushumays
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 3
Default solved

That was the answer! (feedback loop from the yamaha keyboard clock). Once I figured out where to turn the MIDI function to "send clock" OFF on the Yamaha keyboard, the problem went away... it was where you'd expect in menus:

Utility > MIDI > Send Clock > off

Thanks to those who weighed in - i really appreciate it!
abushumays is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:24 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.