Old 05-15-2018, 08:37 AM   #1
Triode
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Default v5.90rc2 - May 15 2018

v5.90rc2 - May 15 2018
  • + Automation items: improve behavior of copy/paste of overlapping media items [t=206767]
  • + MIDI recording: auto-add of time-selection length MIDI items obeys new MIDI item looping preference [t=206748]
  • + Performance: make automatic worker scheduling slightly more aggressive
  • + Preroll: improve position calculation logic
Changelog - Pre-Releases

Generated by X-Raym's REAPER ChangeLog to BBCode
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Old 05-15-2018, 11:19 AM   #2
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still having hanging note issue with Tyrell N6.
Also noticed the midi option to keep select or last note drawn length to draw new note option is broken : new note length is always 1/16 + a couple of tics length.
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Old 05-15-2018, 11:21 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dupont View Post
Also noticed the midi option to keep select or last note drawn length to draw new note option is broken : new note length is always 1/16 + a couple of tics length.
Nope, works just fine over here.


Also what are you doing with Tyrell to make it hang? I can't make it hang notes over here, even in a loop.
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Old 05-15-2018, 11:48 AM   #4
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Nope, works just fine over here.


Also what are you doing with Tyrell to make it hang? I can't make it hang notes over here, even in a loop.
Tyrell hangs when i'm in loop mode and adjust some parameters : volume or filter envelope decay, release, Filter cut off, X mod osc1 depth...
This only happens in Reaper, tested in Bitwig, live, Logic, Studio one.
I tried 5.90 RC2 this evening and within 30 mn, I got 3 hanging notes.
I had to hit F10 of stop Reaper to stop tyrell Playing.

This is frustrating !
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Old 05-15-2018, 11:56 AM   #5
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3 hanging notes within 30 minutes is not a consistent case for reproduction of the issue unfortunately... Try to find a sure-fire way to trigger hanging notes and only then it can be looked at more closely...
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Old 05-15-2018, 07:22 PM   #6
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3 hanging notes within 30 minutes is not a consistent case for reproduction of the issue unfortunately... Try to find a sure-fire way to trigger hanging notes and only then it can be looked at more closely...
If notes hang after looping for 30 minutes every time then it is consistent.
Do you have authority over what issues get fixed?
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Old 05-15-2018, 07:49 PM   #7
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@dupont, can you isolate the behavior to a specific condition that can be replicated? To ED's point, it's difficult to validate your finding without very explicit directions on how to reproduce the bug.
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Old 05-16-2018, 12:10 AM   #8
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Good update, everything works fine. prompt, how to disable the option for plugins "Hard Reset on Playback start" by default? On several VSTi, in particular Omnisphere and Kontakt, with this option enabled, if you press fast stop/start, ingested notes, so I would disable it by default.
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Old 05-16-2018, 12:39 AM   #9
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Right-click the plugin(s) you want to disable the feature on, it's in that context menu.
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Old 05-16-2018, 12:47 AM   #10
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But it is necessary to do it each time at installation of new VSTi. This is not a problem, but can we add global control over this option?
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Old 05-16-2018, 02:14 AM   #11
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It might make sense to have it in Preferences->Plugins->VST, yeah.
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Old 05-16-2018, 02:41 AM   #12
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Yes, it would be good
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Old 05-16-2018, 03:19 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triode View Post
v5.90rc2 - May 15 2018
[*]+ Performance: make automatic worker scheduling slightly more aggressive
May I ask what the background of this is? It is related to the thread behaviour settings in buffer prefs I guess?
Does it affect the Automatic setting?
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Old 05-16-2018, 09:34 AM   #14
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What happened to the new functions, that were added to 5.81rc1?
Quote:
API: add ThemeLayout_SetParameter(), ThemeLayout_GetParameter(), ThemeLayout_RefreshAll() for use with define_parameter lines
I couldn't find them in the current 5.90rc2...
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Old 05-16-2018, 09:39 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dupont View Post
Also noticed the midi option to keep select or last note drawn length to draw new note option is broken : new note length is always 1/16 + a couple of tics length.
Working fine today on a new project !
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Old 05-16-2018, 10:34 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
3 hanging notes within 30 minutes is not a consistent case for reproduction of the issue unfortunately... Try to find a sure-fire way to trigger hanging notes and only then it can be looked at more closely...
I tried to reproduced the bug, it happens but at random and never when I tweak the same plugin parameters, arghhh.
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Old 05-16-2018, 10:37 AM   #17
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Yes, that makes it extremely hard to replicate, locate and possibly fix.

Can you get a more sure-fire replication case with some other plugin?
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Old 05-16-2018, 11:32 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Yes, that makes it extremely hard to replicate, locate and possibly fix.

Can you get a more sure-fire replication case with some other plugin?
I currently don't get hanging notes with other plugins ! Only with Tyrell N6.
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Old 05-16-2018, 12:26 PM   #19
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So that might actually be an issue in the plugin, not within Reaper.
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Old 05-16-2018, 12:59 PM   #20
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I can get hanging notes with OBXD, PG-8X and ReaSynth. not seeing any change compared to 5.7X ¯\(°_o)/¯
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Old 05-16-2018, 01:15 PM   #21
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With a consistent repro? I don't recall having any hanging notes in a very long time...

I have PG-8X so I can test with that.
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Old 05-16-2018, 02:13 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
With a consistent repro? I don't recall having any hanging notes in a very long time...

I have PG-8X so I can test with that.

from empty project
https://youtu.be/FlIkQ51lhwU

just move edit cursor to different position while a note is playing and it will sustain until you force a note off.

I don't have a lot of synths installed right now but some others do the same thing

- PG-8X, OBXD, ReaSynth, Audio Damage Basic, AIR Xpand2, Kontakt 5

Some that reset on transport position change/note off at stop

- Addictive Keys, IK Syntronik



simple solution would be to always send note off at transport stop.


edit - portable install of 5.78 is different with ReaSynth, it's stopping when I move cursor so maybe problem is in my preferences because I've had this problem with some plugins forever
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Old 05-16-2018, 02:48 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
So that might actually be an issue in the plugin, not within Reaper.

Isn't that somewhat an excuse for insufficient programing? "Somebody else's fault, not mine?" Shouldn't a program like Reaper be smart enough to to check for plugin errors like hanging notes, and self correct? Surely something can be done so that DAW is smarter than plugins, and doesn't go crazy if plugin does a mistake. Couldn't a DAW "grab hold" of a plugin, and stay solid no matter what nonsense plugin is spitting out?
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Old 05-16-2018, 03:11 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EpicSounds View Post
edit - portable install of 5.78 is different with ReaSynth, it's stopping when I move cursor so maybe problem is in my preferences because I've had this problem with some plugins forever
Yeah doesn't happen over here. Not with ReaSynth, nor with Tyrell or PG-8X.

Audio->MIDI Devices->Reset by: [x] All-notes-off [x] Pitch/sustain Reset on: [ ] Play [x] Stop/stopped seek

Audio->Playback->[ ] Flush FX when looping

Plugins->VST->[ ] Don't flush synthesizer plugins on stop/reset

Plugins->VST->[ ] Don't send note-offs or pitch reset messages on stop/reset

Last edited by EvilDragon; 05-16-2018 at 03:24 PM.
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Old 05-16-2018, 03:16 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonicowl View Post
Isn't that somewhat an excuse for insufficient programing? "Somebody else's fault, not mine?" Shouldn't a program like Reaper be smart enough to to check for plugin errors like hanging notes, and self correct? Surely something can be done so that DAW is smarter than plugins, and doesn't go crazy if plugin does a mistake. Couldn't a DAW "grab hold" of a plugin, and stay solid no matter what nonsense plugin is spitting out?
How would DAW know what is "nonsense" and what is correct output from a plugin? In any case, a plugin wouldn't create hung notes unless it's a MIDI processing plugin - VSTi usually don't output MIDI (and if they do, you're not hearing that unless you route that MIDI coming from the plugin out to another plugin).


In any case, this more and more looks to me like a preferences issue than anything else. I literally don't recall when I got hung notes in Reaper... could be years ago. And I have quite a number of VSTi...

Last edited by EvilDragon; 05-16-2018 at 03:21 PM.
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Old 05-16-2018, 03:38 PM   #26
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On some VSTi if you change the position of the cursor during playback, a desynchronization occurs, which is restored through time. In version 5.80 everything works fine.

Edit: Returned the option "Hard reset on playback start", set the settings as advised EvilDragon, problems with the desynchronization disappeared.

Edit 2: But with the option "Hard reset on playback start" enabled, if you quickly press STOP/START, Omnisphere swallows notes

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Old 05-16-2018, 03:42 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post

Plugins->VST->[ ] Don't flush synthesizer plugins on stop/reset

Plugins->VST->[ ] Don't send note-offs or pitch reset messages on stop/reset
That's it, had those on for some reason. Is the wording of those and the hints weird to anyone else?


will test further with preferences set this way
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Old 05-16-2018, 10:42 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonicowl View Post
Isn't that somewhat an excuse for insufficient programing? "Somebody else's fault, not mine?" Shouldn't a program like Reaper be smart enough to to check for plugin errors like hanging notes, and self correct?
From what I know, Reaper does this, but it has no chance if the plugin won't 'listen'. It's like in real life; if you talk to somebody and he's reluctant to listen to you, you can't do anything.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
In any case, this more and more looks to me like a preferences issue than anything else.
IIRC there somewhere was another discussion where a similar problem with some VSTi occurred and Justin wrote that he couldn't do anything more than to built in a 'hard reset' option for such cases, but if the plugin doesn't react to even this, there's no other way to tell it to do what it should.
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Old 05-17-2018, 03:21 AM   #29
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Hi I found a bug regarding quantisation that I don't remember seeing in previous versions...
Here's a way to reproduce it:

- Select grid display as 1/8 Triplets
- Draw some notes in the MIDI Editor
- Select some of them, hit Quantize, select 1/8 Triplets
- It works as expected and notes align to the 1/8 Triplets gridline.
- Hit ok and close the Quantize window.
- Open the Quantize window again, and now it remembers that the last chosen setting is 1/8 triplets, BUT in reality it it quantising to 1/8 straight, even though the menu is showing 1/8 Triplets.

Here's a video example of what's happening:




Thanks for your help!
-t
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Old 05-17-2018, 04:17 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tusitala View Post
Hi I found a bug regarding quantisation that I don't remember seeing in previous versions...
Here's a way to reproduce it:

- Select grid display as 1/8 Triplets
- Draw some notes in the MIDI Editor
- Select some of them, hit Quantize, select 1/8 Triplets
- It works as expected and notes align to the 1/8 Triplets gridline.
- Hit ok and close the Quantize window.
- Open the Quantize window again, and now it remembers that the last chosen setting is 1/8 triplets, BUT in reality it it quantising to 1/8 straight, even though the menu is showing 1/8 Triplets.

Here's a video example of what's happening:




Thanks for your help!
-t
I'm on v5.81pre10 and I can reproduce that.

[MOAN] Apart from that bug, there could be more actions and features for quantisation. Quantization presets? Quantise strength via MIDI/Mousewheel/OSC? Quantize note positions to 1/12, 1/24 etc (currently only straight values exist) [/MOAN]
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Old 05-17-2018, 04:35 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stroudy View Post
I'm on v5.81pre10 and I can reproduce that.

[MOAN] Apart from that bug, there could be more actions and features for quantisation. Quantization presets? Quantise strength via MIDI/Mousewheel/OSC? Quantize note positions to 1/12, 1/24 etc (currently only straight values exist) [/MOAN]
Thank you Stroudy,

So maybe I just didn't notice it before, I'm working on a piece that has a lot of triplets and that's why I came across this behaviour.

I also don't understand why sometimes, upon closing and reopening the Quantize window, Reaper remembers the last quantization values used (as I think it should) and sometimes it forgets (it happens in my video as well, when it reverts back to 1/8 straight).


Devs, if it doesn't concern this prerelease thread I'll post it in the Bug reports section, no problem.

Thanks again
-t
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Last edited by tusitala; 05-17-2018 at 07:16 AM.
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Old 05-17-2018, 05:29 AM   #32
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I would definitely add that to the bug report.

The issue happens for 'swing' and 'dotted too. With 'swing' the 'strength' bar greys out.
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Old 05-17-2018, 05:43 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Data View Post
From what I know, Reaper does this, but it has no chance if the plugin won't 'listen'. It's like in real life; if you talk to somebody and he's reluctant to listen to you, you can't do anything.
That quote made my day

@sonicowl
There are so many gazillion ways of f**ing up communication on the plugin-side. Like deprecated standards, that aren't used anymore. Or that are badly implemented due bugs, lack of knowledge on the programmer's side or just plain human faults.
This is an endless stream of possible variations of problems and there's no way, that the Reaper-Devs would be able to catch them good enough without testing all plugins under all circumstances all the time with every new version of Reaper.
They probably could do it. With thousands of testers, who test all(!) plugins, which costs a lot of money and would make Reaper as expensive as a multibillion-dollar-yacht.
Each license, of course.

It's much faster(and cheaper) to complain and bugreport to the plugin-developer, that they should get their plugin right, because after all, they want it to be used, right...

(Especially, if you've have paid for it...)
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Old 05-17-2018, 09:57 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonicowl View Post
Isn't that somewhat an excuse for insufficient programing? "Somebody else's fault, not mine?" Shouldn't a program like Reaper be smart enough to to check for plugin errors like hanging notes, and self correct? Surely something can be done so that DAW is smarter than plugins, and doesn't go crazy if plugin does a mistake. Couldn't a DAW "grab hold" of a plugin, and stay solid no matter what nonsense plugin is spitting out?
I agree with that. If that's a plugin issue, so why this plugin is working fine inside every other DAWs !

Other people have this issue ! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJ06GS1Zbz4

Last edited by dupont; 05-17-2018 at 12:03 PM.
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Old 05-18-2018, 10:26 AM   #35
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Recent pre bug:



Note this is on the Item Volume Envelope.
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Old 05-21-2018, 12:35 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferropop View Post
Recent pre bug:
Note this is on the Item Volume Envelope.
Confirmed (Win7_x64) but its not recent, I tried a few older versions, went as far back as v5.32 and they behaved the same way.

EDIT, seems to be fixed now in 590-RC8.

Last edited by Edgemeal; 05-22-2018 at 12:23 PM.
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