REAPER Contest - January 2017 (RESULTS)

[DaveKeehl]

Originally Posted by martinmadero

are the .RPP files uploaded?

they are, see the 1st page.

[Tod]

Originally Posted by martinmadero

are the .RPP files uploaded?

Go to the first page and go to the line.

Click here to download all the submissions.

EDIT: Ha, I see you're on top of it Dave.

[martinmadero]

Originally Posted by Tod

Go to the first page and go to the line.

Click here to download all the submissions.

EDIT: Ha, I see you're on top of it Dave.

thanks!!! i see it!

[Gawar]

Thanks for the votes guys. I haven't used Reaper in a while and I wanted to get myself
re-acquainted. So I experimented with things. I did not know that the pitch envelopes
even existed until recently, so I had to check it out, and came in real handy for the vocals.
Unfortunately I ran out of gas (time/energy) towards the end and didn't completely
finish like I would of wanted but, it was a challenge and well worth the effort.

[Indiscipline]

Originally Posted by REAmix

First one is, how did you get those envelopes inside the items, like you have on your vocals?

"Envelope: Toggle display in separate lane for selected envelope" in action list.

Originally Posted by REAmix

Also, what made you decide to split the bass like that?

It's something that I almost always do. It's easier to control the balance of clean lows and overdriven mids and highs this way. Actually, I'm pretty comfortable with splitting the signal inside the chain, but when it comes to automating, it's better to have dedicated faders for both sounds. If you were asking about me using FFTSplitter and not just filters: I was just experimenting.

Originally Posted by REAmix

Everything might be very fast for you because you're comfortable with it all, but from the looks of what you did in your project, that would take me a lot of time.

Not as fast as I would like it to be.

[REAmix]

Originally Posted by Tod

Hey REAmix, I'm not Indiscipline but based on your question I think I can answer this one.

It's "Take Envelopes" that you can assign to items by right clicking the item. Click on an item, select "Take" and there are 5 different envelopes you can assign.

Thanks Tod, how long has that been around for?

[Tod]

Originally Posted by REAmix

Thanks Tod, how long has that been around for?

I'm not sure, but it's been a long, long time. At least since I started using Reaper which was about 7 years ago.

[karbomusic]

I thought we were doing write ups post mortem? I feel a little silly being the only one taking the time to do this.

[REAmix]

Originally Posted by Tod

I'm not sure, but it's been a long, long time. At least since I started using Reaper which was about 7 years ago.

... That's disappointing. I could have been using that this whole time. :'(

At least I know now though.

[REAmix]

Originally Posted by karbomusic

I thought we were doing write ups post mortem? I feel a little silly being the only one taking the time to do this.

I will go through them and post some, hopefully later on today. But just as a disclaimer, I have much to learn, so it will really just be my opinion, sort of a layman impression in a way, of overall impressions.

I think that would be easier for us to all do that next month, because we can just do it as we are rating them.

[karbomusic]

Originally Posted by REAmix

I will go through them and post some, hopefully later on today. But just as a disclaimer, I have much to learn, so it will really just be my opinion, sort of a layman impression in a way, of overall impressions.

No worries at all, I was more pointing towards anyone who had hinted they would based on their own knowledge etc. The mixing and voting is fun but I think what is far more helpful is for winners and/or others who place well (or even didn't place well but have years of experience) give their thoughts of both what they were thinking when they were mixing and what they think about submissions that could be improved.

I've always found when I teach others (in any industry or skill) that what I'm thinking and why I decided to do what I did helps much more than just seeing/hearing the result of it. One of my main interests in these contests is that people learn and I think anyone new at this, deserves/needs that.

[martinmadero]

Originally Posted by karbomusic

No worries at all, I was more pointing towards anyone who had hinted they would based on their own knowledge etc. The mixing and voting is fun but I think what is far more helpful is for winners and/or others who place well (or even didn't place well but have years of experience) give their thoughts of both what they were thinking when they were mixing and what they think about submissions that could be improved.

I've always found when I teach others (in any industry or skill) that what I'm thinking and why I decided to do what I did helps much more than just seeing/hearing the result of it. One of my main interests in these contests is that people learn and I think anyone new at this, deserves/needs that.

estoy de acuerdo.
en terminos de gusto o preferencias, creo que los votos pueden indicar la subjetividad del que escucha, y no siempre podría guardar relación con que se haya votado a la mejor mezcla, técnicamente hablando.
lo que me parece productivo es que luego de que todos los proyectos se hayan revelado, indicar o hacer preguntas sobre como tu mezcla podría en comparación, parecerse más a aquella que te había gustado; es decir, preguntarle directamente a quien haya sido, cómo hizo tal o cual cosa, y usar su proyecto como punto de referencia.
en eso creo que se podría establecer un patrón mediante el cual uno podría ver sus puntos débiles, contrastados con aquellos que hicieron, según su propio criterio, un acabado mejor en términos de resultado final.

[karbomusic]

Originally Posted by martinmadero

estoy de acuerdo.
en terminos de gusto o preferencias, creo que los votos pueden indicar la subjetividad del que escucha, y no siempre podría guardar relación con que se haya votado a la mejor mezcla, técnicamente hablando.
lo que me parece productivo es que luego de que todos los proyectos se hayan revelado, indicar o hacer preguntas sobre como tu mezcla podría en comparación, parecerse más a aquella que te había gustado; es decir, preguntarle directamente a quien haya sido, cómo hizo tal o cual cosa, y usar su proyecto como punto de referencia.
en eso creo que se podría establecer un patrón mediante el cual uno podría ver sus puntos débiles, contrastados con aquellos que hicieron, según su propio criterio, un acabado mejor en términos de resultado final.

Yes, I agree too. It's that entire discussion why we mixed how we did (and/or how and why we voted along with ), that's IMHO is where all the value is. I'm also speaking for all those who read this now and in the future who are learning whether they entered or not; these threads are far more reaching to readers who don't reply. Hearing all of our thoughts and reasoning is very useful as well as the things you mentioned about subjectivity when voting etc.

In other words, anyone can create a mix and get some votes or not. That's just something we need to get out of the way in order to get to the good stuff.

Edit: I would have replied in Spanish but I haven't used it in 40 years and surely don't remember it so I cheated and used a translator.

[martinmadero]

Originally Posted by karbomusic

Yes, I agree too. It's that entire discussion why we mixed how we did (and/or how and why we voted along with ), that's IMHO is where all the value is. I'm also speaking for all those who read this now and in the future who are learning whether they entered or not; these threads are far more reaching to readers who don't reply. Hearing all of our thoughts and reasoning is very useful as well as the things you mentioned about subjectivity when voting etc.

In other words, anyone can create a mix and get some votes or not. That's just something we need to get out of the way in order to get to the good stuff.

Edit: I would have replied in Spanish but I haven't used it in 40 years and surely don't remember it so I cheated and used a translator.

hahaha, certainly i can read in english but i can´t write (or better say) can´t explayed myself in english as well as in spanish..
so, in cases of much explain, i´ll write in spanish

[martinmadero]

and..
in order to learn..
i see some projects/mixes that don´t use any VST chain on the Master Track
so, why?
it´s a better way to only put plugins on the tracks, and normalize the final volume in the mix, so put the Master on 0db to get a more natural sounding?
is that for?
i ask this for i byppased the FX chain in the master track, and the final sound change considerably a lot.. without this chain, doesn´t sound good.
how approach to make the desition between put or not a FX chain on the master ?

[karbomusic]

Originally Posted by martinmadero

hahaha, certainly i can read in english but i can´t write (or better say) can´t explayed myself in english as well as in spanish..
so, in cases of much explain, i´ll write in spanish

That's fine. It was actually quite readable in the translator.

[REAmix]

Originally Posted by martinmadero

hahaha, certainly i can read in english but i can´t write (or better say) can´t explayed myself in english as well as in spanish..
so, in cases of much explain, i´ll write in spanish

No me molesta tampoco si preferieres contestar en espanol. Me permite de apprender un poco, y con traductores como google, calquier miembro puede encontrar la signification sin demasiado dificultad. Para mi, tengo traduccion google de texto selectado en el menu right click.

[REAmix]

Did/do you guys include yourselves in the voting?

I was wondering whether or not to, and decided not to include myself in the end. On the one hand, it might be interesting to try and objectively see where I think I measure up to the other entries, and then see what other people thought, but then I thought I might be biased, and it might be better for the whole thing not to. I know for some things I spent time listening and getting it where I thought it was right, and I put time in areas I thought were more important, so it might be tough to get away from that, and look more at the big picture.

Not including yourself also spreads around the votes a little more, and can then help give a deeper ranking maybe. For example, if we imagine for a moment that we all had the same taste and skill and experience and would always vote the same, we would have 11(?) top 3 votes that are the same, and then 3 votes that would be able to help determine a 4th place. That would also mean that the top 3 winners would use what we can assume is sort of better voting wisdom applied to others, rather than "wasted", on themselves, for lack of a better word. But that also means they'd be one vote short for themselves.

Not that's it's a big deal, but I was just wondering what you guys did/do. Not necessarily whether you did vote for yourself, but even if you didn't, whether you would, if you thought yours was in the top 3, if you included yourself in the voting process, or just pretended you weren't there.

[martinmadero]

Originally Posted by REAmix

No me molesta tampoco si preferieres contestar en espanol. Me permite de apprender un poco, y con traductores como google, calquier miembro puede encontrar la signification sin demasiado dificultad. Para mi, tengo traduccion google de texto selectado en el menu right click.

ok! reamix!!
mejor si no molesta que escriba en mi idioma nativo, me es más fácil y rápido contestar

[karbomusic]

Originally Posted by REAmix

Not that's it's a big deal, but I was just wondering what you guys did/do.

I didn't vote at all for selfish, yet technical reasons explained in one of my replies ^up there somewhere from Tuesday. Had I voted I wouldn't have voted for myself I don't think. I actually wish we had a higher voting participation (guilty as charged) but beyond ourselves where maybe 30 or 40 people voted, I think that would give a better overall picture.

Not that I think the current votes were slanted at all, but to get a good sample set, it's likely better that we aren't the only ones voting as we are too close to the material to not be subjectively biased once we get beyond obvious mistakes and so on.

[Tod]

Originally Posted by REAmix

No me molesta tampoco si preferieres contestar en espanol. Me permite de apprender un poco, y con traductores como google, calquier miembro puede encontrar la signification sin demasiado dificultad. Para mi, tengo traduccion google de texto selectado en el menu right click.

Heh heh, come on guys, my spell checker's going nuts!

Originally Posted by karbomusic

I thought we were doing write ups post mortem? I feel a little silly being the only one taking the time to do this.

I'm sorry karbo, I'll see if I can jot some things down that caused me to do what I did.

I have a huge disadvantage, I can't hear anything above 4Khz. Heh heh, I've played, recorded, mixed, and produced music nearly all my life and it's taken a toll on my ears. So now my wife tries her best to help me out, although she doesn't discern things like we do, so I have to kind of pry it out of her.

I do hear things pretty well and balanced below 4K, but needless to say, it's very difficult to make judgments on all the various mixes, and in all honesty, I don't feel adequate for that part of it.

I'll try put something together.

[karbomusic]

Originally Posted by Tod

I'm sorry karbo, I'll see if I can jot some things down that caused me to do what I did.

Oh no worries my friend, just trying to gently nudge all of us as a whole.

I have a huge disadvantage, I can't hear anything above 4Khz. Heh heh, I've played, recorded, mixed, and produced music nearly all my life and it's taken a toll on my ears. So now my wife tries her best to help me out, although she doesn't discern things like we do, so I have to kind of pry it out of her.

I understand, but are you sure because your mixes are quite fine. I do believe you but I think you do well enough that even if you can't hear it as well as you'd like, your experience and those years obtaining it are very valuable. I enjoy that because I think we come from similar backgrounds.

Think of this perspective, I've certainly rambled enough in these mix contests but the real reason is that I want to share what I know/learned for others in the future. It's not like I think I know that much but if I write it down, anything that is good will probably outlive me and hopefully provide value to people I'll never know or meet.

I'll try put something together.

Yay! I don't think you need to critically listen to every mix five times all the way through (I didn't) but jotting down what you think of the submissions and or thought while mixing is helpful to share would be ideal.

[Tod]

Okay, like I said I have the loss of hearing above 4K so I basically have Span on every track or bus.

The first thing I do in a mix like this, is check out the individual parts, drums, the various guitars, bass, vocals, BGVs, etc.. I make each of these parts sound as good as possible in "Solo" mode.

I usually start with the drums, and try to get some balance between the individual tracks and mics before I start adding any FX. On this particular mix, only the kik and snare had one individual close mics and didn't sound all that great, so the OH stereo mics and mono Room mic were quite important, especially the OHs. I think I ended up with a lot of EQ to get them to sound right.

I thought the acoustic guitars had a pretty good sound to them and I think they were stereo miced. Since it had the two stereo AcGtrs I put a slight amount of chorusing on right side of AcGtr-1 and also on the left side of AcGtr-2. It was a very slow chorusing with just enough to add a little modulation.

I did very little with the bass, no EQ or FX at all, just a little volume automation on the end.

I thought the vocal sounded pretty good although I did do some extensive EQing on it. The opportunity was there to double the vocal and I did it slightly, but mainly I used the main vox track and only had the doubling blend in slightly just to add a little body. It still sounded more like a solo vox track. Some of you talked about the sibilance, but of course I couldn't hear that, my mix might have suffered from that.

I did the same thing with the BGVs that I think most others did, copy and pasting to make them a little fuller.

The E-Gtr lead already had delay on it, but I did add a little more in spots to bring it out a little more in certain places.

I already posted what I did to get the final mix into compliance with the rules, so I guess that's about it.

[karbomusic]

^Thank you very much Tod, much appreciated. It's amazing how many things you and I did similarly..

Same on bass. I thought the same about the acoustics including the chorus except I was a little lazy and put the chorus on the acoustic folder I had them in instead.

I did the same with the guitar delay but I coated a little extra, but that's just my personal taste for the mood/style but mainly because some of that song really reminded me of those mid-70s bands like 10CC, Ambrosia, Firefall, Paul Davis and so on. Maybe those bring back a memory or two.

Thanks for sharing.

[Tod]

Originally Posted by karbomusic

I understand, but are you sure because your mixes are quite fine. I do believe you but I think you do well enough that even if you can't hear it as well as you'd like, your experience and those years obtaining it are very valuable. I enjoy that because I think we come from similar backgrounds.

Heh heh, yeah, I think we do have a lot in common with our backgrounds karbo. And for sure, if it wasn't for my experience I wouldn't even be here. I actually feel very fortunate to be here with all you folks, still doing this kind of stuff.

Yay! I don't think you need to critically listen to every mix five times all the way through (I didn't) but jotting down what you think of the submissions and or thought while mixing is helpful to share would be ideal.

Yeah, no, I don't listen to anything all the way through, I break things up into sections. I've got a toolbar I've set up so I can go from mix to mix as I want to.

I've already mentioned how I dislike things that are compressed to the point you can hear it pumping. I'll rule them out right away, but wait, then I discover that most of the ones I like are also over compressed to my way of thinking.

So then I have to relisten and try to select based on one factor or another, which is usually overly bassy or overly bright.

At any rate, I do end up with my voting selections, right or wrong.

[Bass6]

Hello boys and girls (are there any girls out there or this a single-sex ward? Nurse! Where's my medication?!)

In the immortal words of Monty Python, I 'polled no votes at all, not a sausage, bugger all'. I must confess to being a little disappointed as I didn't think my mix was that bad, but it clearly didn't make the grade so I'm hoping you more experienced hands out there may be able to offer some advice.

A little background - I'm 56 (shit, how did that happen?!) and only been recording/mixing for about 6 months. However, I started playing drums at 14, guitar at 16 and bass at 20, so there's 4 decades of musical experience there, and I've been listening to music forever - and I mean properly listening, not having it on in the background. I have, I think, a deep appreciation of the sonic qualities of an instrument's sound, it's timbre, character, and 'class' for want of a better word. Consequently, there are some sounds that really move me - Stanley Clarke's bass, Gilmour's guitar, Sinatra's voice etc., things that stand out and make me go wow. All of which is to say that I know what I want something to sound like - I just need to learn what buttons to press and knobs to twiddle to get me there.

Gear: instruments aside, I have an above-average PC and a Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 to handle ins and outs. Until now, I've been practising my mixing with a pair of Samson SR850 semi-open headphones. Not the Rolls-Royce of cans, but OK reviews and when I listen to reference tracks I know inside out, they sound pretty decent. Also got a pair of AKG K550, but I tend to use those more for tracking my own stuff.
I do have a pair of Eris monitors, but nowhere to put them (yet) so they're still boxed. Recently bought a pair of Mackie CR4s, but they're more for listening to movies and such - they only go down to 70Hz so I wouldn't trust them for mixing bottom end at all.

So, finally, to the latest mix. I gave mine a critical listen about a week after I'd submitted it and thought:
Drums - not bad. Happy with the snare sound, kick could've used a bit more punch. Liked that I brought out the tom sound given the lack of close mic's. Cymbals a bit weak. Given the quality of the source, overall happy.
Bass - not great. Still sounded woolly and indistinct. Struggled with eq on this. Didn't like the sound of the source but couldn't seem to improve it to the point where it cut through without sounding really harsh and twangy.
Guitars - OK, but lacking in midrange. 'Sweet' sound on their own but lacking mid in the ensemble. That said, I thought every other mix had too much mid-push on the acoustics, some to the point of banjo harshness, so I must be missing something here. Any thoughts?
Vocals - did some eq to lose what I thought was an annoying mid-range bump that sounded harsh on the louder phrases, but forgot to add any presence or air so overall it sounded a bit dark. In retrospect, I should've ditched the doubled track and stuck with a single - didn't add anything positive IMHO. BVs were ok but bland. I added a touch of pitch-shift for an extra harmony as they sounded a bit monotonous, but listening back that added an annoying warble here & there, so probably a mistake.
Guitar solo - I thought the original sounded horrible, harsh and 'cheap fuzz' tone, so I softened it a lot with eq and added a two-tap echo, with a third, longer, tap on the last phrase. TBH, I thought that worked well, sounded good, and fit the song.
Overall mix - not too shabby (or so I thought!) but lacking in mid-range and a bit woolly on the bottom. The little edits or 'production' that I did was to try to cover some sloppy playing to be blunt. The bass was quite loose in parts (especially at the start) and they clearly didn't play to a click. I'm not sure from earlier posts whether that's frowned upon i.e. this is what the band wanted so stick to it and just mix; or is it justified i.e. we can't re-track anything so if there's an obvious mistake, fix it. What does everyone think, for future mix reference? Mix it, or fix it?

So, am I way off beam here? Any thoughts, suggestions and constructive criticism would be very welcome - as has been said many times, this is a great educational experience and I'm still in kindergarten and can use all the help I can get!

Thanks guys (and dolls?)

[karbomusic]

Originally Posted by Bass6

A little background - I'm 56 (shit, how did that happen?!)

Seems to just happen LOL, I'm 53 and what the younger crowd probably doesn't (yet) know is time seems to go by faster the older you get.

and only been recording/mixing for about 6 months. However, I started playing drums at 14, guitar at 16 and bass at 20, so there's 4 decades of musical experience there)

I actually began 'recording' when I was 7. Obviously not in a musical context per se but that was when I got my first little table top recorder and pretty much have recorded everything, ever since, not that that means anything. Holy crap that was 43 years ago!

The main thing I wanted to mention is that I wouldn't feel bad in the least if you've only been recording for about 6 months. That means you probably did far better than the votes show comparatively so I'd take that as a compliment. If you share which ID your mix was, I'll be happy to take a listen and comment more closely based on your reply above later this evening when I'm home and have the time. After seeing your thoughts above, it would be great to take those and go back and listen to your mix again, I think that could potentially be quite helpful.

[Bass6]

Originally Posted by karbomusic

Seems to just happen LOL, I'm 53 and what the younger crowd probably doesn't (yet) know is time seems to go by faster the older you get.

True dat, as the yoof say. It's the only thing about getting older that does get faster!
Thanks for the reply Karbo. I should've mentioned mine was mix #6. If you can spare the time to give it a listen and comment I'd be very grateful. Cheers.

[karbomusic]

Originally Posted by Bass6

True dat, as the yoof say. It's the only thing about getting older that does get faster!
Thanks for the reply Karbo. I should've mentioned mine was mix #6. If you can spare the time to give it a listen and comment I'd be very grateful. Cheers.

Will be happy to give it a spin. Until then, take care.

[Tod]

Originally Posted by Bass6

True dat, as the yoof say. It's the only thing about getting older that does get faster!
Thanks for the reply Karbo. I should've mentioned mine was mix #6. If you can spare the time to give it a listen and comment I'd be very grateful. Cheers.

Hi Bass6, I did give a listen and it isn't that your mix is bad in any way, it's actually balanced quite well except for a few things.

First thing I noticed is that it was bottom heavy, which consequently brings down the higher freqs.

Secondly, your RMS value is way down even though your peak value was sitting at a -0.3dB. I also analysed the LUFS of your mp3 and it was way down at -16.1.

Like I said Bass6, I thought your over all balance was good, but I think your mix suffers from what I mention above.

What I did to improve it on my system was add some EQing and put a limiter on it.

The link below has the FX chain I used. If you add that to your FX chain folder and load it as FX on your mp3 track, then turn the "Item Volume" up on your mp3 item up to a +2.0dB, it should give you what I thought was a big improvement of your mix.

https://stash.reaper.fm/29703/EQ%2C%2...Bass6.RfxChain

[Bass6]

Originally Posted by Tod

Hi Bass6, I did give a listen and it isn't that your mix is bad in any way, it's actually balanced quite well except for a few things.

First thing I noticed is that it was bottom heavy, which consequently brings down the higher freqs.

Secondly, your RMS value is way down even though your peak value was sitting at a -0.3dB. I also analysed the LUFS of your mp3 and it was way down at -16.1.

Like I said Bass6, I thought your over all balance was good, but I think your mix suffers from what I mention above.

What I did to improve it on my system was add some EQing and put a limiter on it.

The link below has the FX chain I used. If you add that to your FX chain folder and load it as FX on your mp3 track, then turn the "Item Volume" up on your mp3 item up to a +2.0dB, it should give you what I thought was a big improvement of your mix.

https://stash.reaper.fm/29703/EQ%2C%2...Bass6.RfxChain

Hey Tod, thank you so much for this. I did as you suggest (once I'd actually found the FX chain folder!) and it does indeed result in a huge improvement - brighter and punchier but not harsh.
I need to do some more research and self-education on RMS/peak and LUFS (which I don't know from a hole in the ground), so Google here I come. But in the meantime, a thousand thanks, and have a great weekend.

[Tod]

Originally Posted by Bass6

Hey Tod, thank you so much for this. I did as you suggest (once I'd actually found the FX chain folder!) and it does indeed result in a huge improvement - brighter and punchier but not harsh.
I need to do some more research and self-education on RMS/peak and LUFS (which I don't know from a hole in the ground), so Google here I come. But in the meantime, a thousand thanks, and have a great weekend.

Your welcome, and just so you know, Karbo turned me onto the Orban Loudness Meter and it's absolutely great.

You can get it in the link below. You'll probably have some questions on it but don't be afraid to ask. Karbo knows a lot more than I do about it, and one of us will try to assist.

ftp://ftp.orban.com/Orban_Loudness_Meter/

[martinmadero]

anyone could give me a few tips about my mix?
things to improve?
like/dislike?

i´ll appreciate so much!!

[Bass6]

Originally Posted by Tod

Your welcome, and just so you know, Karbo turned me onto the Orban Loudness Meter and it's absolutely great.

You can get it in the link below. You'll probably have some questions on it but don't be afraid to ask. Karbo knows a lot more than I do about it, and one of us will try to assist.

ftp://ftp.orban.com/Orban_Loudness_Meter/

Okey dokey, thanks again Tod. I'm away all next week to look after my two boys while my ex noodles around on a prog cruise from Florida to Mexico, but it looks like I have a lot of reading to do! I'm sure I'll bombard you & Karbo with questions when I'm back....
Muchas gracias amigo

[martinmadero]

Acá van mis humildes comentarios:
por una cuestión de gustos, cuando realicé la votación le di prioridad a las mezclas en las que la voz principal no esté superpuesta o doblada con las tomas alternativas, me pareció que sonaba mejor la mezcla "al natural"
Notese que no son críticas sino observaciones, desde mi total ignorancia, espero que les sea de utilidad

#ID1: me gustan mucho las guitarras acústicas, suenan muy bien. A MEJORAR: mucho EQ tal vez en las frecuencias altas. Bassdrum y Snare quiza muy atrás en relación a la mezcla.

#ID2: la mezcla en general está bien balanceada, me gustó en general. Tal vez un poco más de subida en las frecuencias más bajas. Es una buena mezcla.

#ID4: suena bien, claro, puedo escuchar todo. CONTRA: la voz a mi gusto está muy por delante de la música. Tal vez un poco menos de room en las baterías. Me gustó.

#ID5: PRO: mezcla bien balanceada, a mi gusto la que más sonido natural tiene de la ronda. Quizá en algunos momentos, debería subir la fuerza de la mezcla, pero muy bien en terminos generales. Me gustó.

#ID6: PRO: me gusta la EQ de la voz. CONTRA: a mis oídos la mezcla en general suena muy pastosa, quizá sobre ecualizado entre graves y agudos.

#ID9: la voz me suena separada del resto de la mezcla. Quizá mucha compresión en el master?

#ID10: creo que como sugerencia reveería el tema de los niveles individuales para equilibrar los volúmenes e intentar otro sonido.

#ID11: me gusta, definitivamente un poco más de power en la voz hubiera encajado perfectamente.


#ID7 y #ID8 y #ID12: la misma opinión que karbomusic

[karbomusic]

Originally Posted by Bass6

So, am I way off beam here? Any thoughts, suggestions and constructive criticism would be very welcome -

Hey man, just got a chance to listen. I looked back to see what I said previously the other day so here that is to start...

ID6: Good: I think the balance is good overall and I hear awareness of placement. Not So Good: Vocal reverb too much IMHO compared to the rest of the instruments, makes them sound misplaced from each other; that reversed cymbal or whatever. That's another one of those it "must make the mix" type decisions, otherwise it sounds like a trick that doesn't bring value to the presentation.

Listening a second time I don't think the vocal reverb is quite as 'too much' as I originally stated although I still think it could have be just a tad less so that it doesn't sound out of place with the other instruments. Reverb is sort of tricky in the fact that when it's right it's often riding that fine line between noticing it's there vs. noticing the overall result. The way I was originally taught (rough guide only), is to back it off right until it is difficult to hear whether it is there or not then stop there.

I'll give a hint/trick on reverb... Use the stop button to judge it so that you may not really be able to hear distinctly in the full mix but when you hit stop, use that tail to confirm it is there, how much and and so on. Doing it like that it can be quite thick but you don't really notice as much when the mix is going.

If I had voted I probably would have taken a point away for the special effects, such as the reversed cymbal etc. Those are fine but as I mentioned in my original comment, those 'really' have to earn their place or it just sounds like a trick. To be fair it's also one of those thing each of us probably needs to get out of our system by trying so all good.

Lastly, I think it's a little heavy in the low, low mids range but since my mix is a little lacking in that exact same range it's hard for me to make a judgement call on that one just yet. It's actually fine until the bass and drums come in so it might be as simple as toning down the lows on the kick or bass, again assuming this isn't my own monitoring issue.

I don't think you have anything to be embarrassed about in your mix, I can hear your years of musical experience in it. I also must iterate again, that with basically only contestants voting, it's difficult for all of us to be as objective as we'd like to be. I think you did quite well for six months of recording.

[karbomusic]

Originally Posted by martinmadero

anyone could give me a few tips about my mix?
things to improve?
like/dislike?

i´ll appreciate so much!!

Hi Martin,

Are you ID3? If so, my original comments...

ID3: Good: Guitars sound nice. Not So Good: Long vocal delay, very hard for those to work unless the mix is begging for it and I don't think this mix is - it's too intimate for that IMHO. To be fair, I did the same just before the solo but tried to bury it so you don't really know it's there. Not sure how successful I was..

Listening to this after not hearing these for a couple days, I don't really have much to critique; I think it's real nice mix and feel like I'd be unnecessarily nitpicking if I tried to find more wrong. The delay on the vocal is fine but I still think what I wrote above. However, I also think I may not be a good judge because my knowing it's done via delay makes me biased, this might not be the case for a first time listener!

The only other thing I could possibly nitpick is like my earlier comment about the guitars (in my overall comments post) being more left/right. Hope it's OK to explain...

I wouldn't shy away of putting the intro guitar to the right or left more, that slight imbalance and emptiness created on the opposing side during the intro can work to our advantage. The very fact that it is missing makes the listener *want to wait* to see what is going to show up there, that's a nice type of tension to have and it can be very powerful IMHO by creating then fulfilling that expectation when the second guitar reveals itself. It's all about creating tension in the listener then rewarding them.

Your mix is nice enough that you probably already know all this but maybe someone reading doesn't so thought I'd add it in the event anyone finds it useful.

[Bass6]

Originally Posted by karbomusic

Hey man, just got a chance to listen. I looked back to see what I said previously the other day so here that is to start...



Listening a second time I don't think the vocal reverb is quite as 'too much' as I originally stated although I still think it could have be just a tad less so that it doesn't sound out of place with the other instruments. Reverb is sort of tricky in the fact that when it's right it's often riding that fine line between noticing it's there vs. noticing the overall result. The way I was originally taught (rough guide only), is to back it off right until it is difficult to hear whether it is there or not then stop there.

I'll give a hint/trick on reverb... Use the stop button to judge it so that you may not really be able to hear distinctly in the full mix but when you hit stop, use that tail to confirm it is there, how much and and so on. Doing it like that it can be quite thick but you don't really notice as much when the mix is going.

If I had voted I probably would have taken a point away for the special effects, such as the reversed cymbal etc. Those are fine but as I mentioned in my original comment, those 'really' have to earn their place or it just sounds like a trick. To be fair it's also one of those thing each of us probably needs to get out of our system by trying so all good.

Lastly, I think it's a little heavy in the low, low mids range but since my mix is a little lacking in that exact same range it's hard for me to make a judgement call on that one just yet. It's actually fine until the bass and drums come in so it might be as simple as toning down the lows on the kick or bass, again assuming this isn't my own monitoring issue.

I don't think you have anything to be embarrassed about in your mix, I can hear your years of musical experience in it. I also must iterate again, that with basically only contestants voting, it's difficult for all of us to be as objective as we'd like to be. I think you did quite well for six months of recording.

Thanks a million Karbo - all great advice I will take to heart. Tod said earlier about the low end and kindly gave me an FX chain that improved things no end. I guess being primarily a bassist I tend to favour the low end but I need to learn when to stop!
The reverse cymbal was an attempt to cover the bass/drum fluff when they come in - for me that was the worst bit of timing in the song and spoiled the impact of their entrance - however, it doesn't really fit with the song...lesson learned!
Thanks to both you and Tod for taking the time to share your experience - learning this stuff by trial & error would take an eternity,and with the amount I'm currently smoking (only tobacco, sadly) I'll be lucky if I make next week!

[karbomusic]

The reverse cymbal was an attempt to cover the bass/drum fluff when they come in

Ahhhhhhhhhh... Now I get it. That little bass/kick trip up drove me crazy too; I think I slip edited that note on the bass and moved it over; it was the only timing edit I made in the song IIRC. Makes sense now.

[karbomusic]

#ID2: la mezcla en general está bien balanceada, me gustó en general. Tal vez un poco más de subida en las frecuencias más bajas. Es una buena mezcla.

Thanks. I agree. Since I was talking about this early on... I mixed on a different set of monitors this time, in November I mixed using my Mackie HR824s, Equator D5s and my Adam A7X's but I did 95% of it on the Mackies but while great with bass, they are lacking in lower mids and a little bright.

This contest I mixed pretty much exclusively on the Adam's which are polar opposites of the Mackies, they are very low-mid forward comparatively. Part of my mixing this contest was a test of my monitoring environment. So thank you for the comment, the very range you mentioned is the same one I was struggling with on whether to trust or not.

On a side note. I'm mixing on my Equators less and less. The thing that bothers me about them is the highs always seem to sound disconnected from the other frequencies. I suppose I'll mix exclusively on them for the next contest, only fair thing to do.