Go Back   Cockos Incorporated Forums > REAPER Forums > Recording Technologies and Techniques

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-14-2021, 03:30 AM   #1
tomo34
Human being with feelings
 
tomo34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 106
Default Recording one guitar guitar. Some plugin to change wav ramdomly?

Hi,

As we know is couple tricks to simulate two guitars from one guitar track, for example duplicate track and apply ~8ms delay then hard pan left/right both tracks.

Problem is that above example (and other similar tricks) are relate to one guitar wav. It means that both tracks base on the same information from one wav.

When we recorging two guiatrs (two takes), even on the same settings (pre, amp, fx etc.) second guitar will never be the same as first and this is one of benefit doubled guitar track.

Question: is some plugin which can be used to apply some ramdomly changes to vaw in other to get slightly changes? Something like MIDI humanize?
tomo34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2021, 06:30 AM   #2
bobobo
Human being with feelings
 
bobobo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,353
Default

reapitch with light changes pitchwise and random lfo on it
bobobo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2021, 11:34 AM   #3
toleolu
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 2,423
Default

Just a hobbyist here, I started out duplicating my guitar tracks, then I heard some recordings here where people recorded each track separately. The latter provided a much better sound, at least to my old ears.

So I started doing that and found I could record the second track faster than I could tweak the duplicated track with plugins etc.
__________________
I wish I was the full moon shining off a Camaro's hood. - Pearl Jam
toleolu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2021, 11:53 AM   #4
Fabian
Human being with feelings
 
Fabian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Sweden
Posts: 7,407
Default

If you only have a single guitar taket that you want to double, one way that might work is to cut the copy up in pieces and move the pieces on the time line so that no piece plays in parallel with its original.

For guitar played to a click, this is easy. if not played to a click, it is this possible but sometimes requires some stretching to fit the copied piece into the place they it is put.

This works batter than the Haas thing as it is mono compatible.
__________________
// MVHMF
I never always did the right thing, but all I did wasn't wrong...
Fabian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2021, 11:09 PM   #5
tomo34
Human being with feelings
 
tomo34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 106
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabian View Post
If you only have a single guitar taket that you want to double, one way that might work is to cut the copy up in pieces and move the pieces on the time line so that no piece plays in parallel with its original.

For guitar played to a click, this is easy. if not played to a click, it is this possible but sometimes requires some stretching to fit the copied piece into the place they it is put.

This works batter than the Haas thing as it is mono compatible.
Thanks. This is some solution, but require minimum 2 bars with the same phrase in tempo (click). Also is time consumption while editing job.
tomo34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2021, 07:01 AM   #6
serr
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 12,536
Default

What's the goal here? Is this about dialing up a live performance template? So that you can play live and have a doubler effect? That would be reasonable.

If you're making a studio recording, you could probably record a few takes and get a solid double a lot quicker than trying to fake it. Since faking it introduces the challenges that it does.

Just my 2c
serr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2021, 10:28 AM   #7
Pashkuli
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: United Kingdom, T. Wells
Posts: 2,454
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomo34 View Post
Question: is some plugin which can be used to apply some ramdomly changes to vaw in other to get slightly changes? Something like MIDI humanize?
You could try using some saturation and different cab-IR (impulse responses) from those on the 'first' copy.
But before that maybe you could try with Melodyne DNA features and adjust pitches, timing... quite laborious and tedious but might work, as next to it you will apply the different amp-sim + cab-IR.

But honestly... for that time... you could have recorded separate quad guitar tracks. So... is it worth it at the end?

Last edited by Pashkuli; 08-15-2021 at 12:13 PM.
Pashkuli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2021, 11:18 AM   #8
fuzzball
Human being with feelings
 
fuzzball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 214
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glennbo View Post
For kicks, I just created this track template
Thanks Glennbo. That's really cool... though for the life of me I can't figure out how you did it. For instance, if I wanted to adjust the ratio of volume on track 1 to delay on track 2, or volume on track 1 to pitch on track 2, where is that to be found?
fuzzball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2021, 11:42 AM   #9
Glennbo
Human being with feelings
 
Glennbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 9,013
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzball View Post
Thanks Glennbo. That's really cool... though for the life of me I can't figure out how you did it. For instance, if I wanted to adjust the ratio of volume on track 1 to delay on track 2, or volume on track 1 to pitch on track 2, where is that to be found?
Open one of the FX and click the Param button. Go down to FX Parameters List, and Parameter Modulation/MIDI Link. Click on the item that has the checkmark, and that's the panel doing the modulation.

BTW, I should have mentioned that because of the high latency of ReaPitch, you should prolly bypass it while recording, and then enable it on playback.
__________________
Glennbo
Hear My Music - Click Me!!!
--
Glennbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2021, 11:52 AM   #10
fuzzball
Human being with feelings
 
fuzzball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 214
Default

Thanks. I sure have a lot to learn about this.
fuzzball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2021, 12:06 PM   #11
Tod
Human being with feelings
 
Tod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Kalispell
Posts: 14,743
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomo34 View Post
Also is time consumption while editing job.
tomo, taking the time to do what Fabian is talking about is what good audio engineering is about. Not only that but it produces the best results.
Tod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2021, 12:10 PM   #12
Tod
Human being with feelings
 
Tod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Kalispell
Posts: 14,743
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glennbo View Post
For kicks, I just created this track template that uses two tracks, with the first being the track for guitar. The second track is being fed signal from the first that is then processed by ReaDelay but the length of ms is being modulated by volume so the clone track shifts position based on volume. The second effect is ReaPitch which is also being parameter modulated so the pitch of the clone track moves by cents based on volume. Lastly the two tracks are hard panned so the original guitar part is on the left and the cloned guitar is on the right with its position and pitch being slightly tweaked by the volume of the first track.

https://forum.cockos.com/attachment....1&d=1629040105

.
Glennbo, did you check the phase between the two tracks?
Tod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2021, 12:39 PM   #13
Glennbo
Human being with feelings
 
Glennbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 9,013
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
Glennbo, did you check the phase between the two tracks?
No, but the clone track is being dynamically delayed and pitch modified, so I would guess they aren't in phase.

I threw that together playing back an existing guitar solo as the source. Later I plugged in my SG and the instance of ReaPitch has so much latency, you can't really play live through it, so I temporarily bypassed ReaPitch, recorded a new track of guitar, then enabled ReaPitch and got the doubling effect.

Edit: I put an existing track of some clean mono jazz guitar through the track template. First is the original mono track, followed by the same guitar played through the track template. The pitch and delay of the right side is very subtle, only changing by a few cents and milliseconds, but it makes it so the left and right are not identical.

https://www.soundclick.com/music/son...ongID=14297094

Also, if you wanted the delay and pitch to be more random than modulating on amplitude, you could turn on the LFOs and add constant movement of pitch and position to the amplitude modulation.

.
__________________
Glennbo
Hear My Music - Click Me!!!
--

Last edited by Glennbo; 08-15-2021 at 01:28 PM.
Glennbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2021, 09:31 PM   #14
Tod
Human being with feelings
 
Tod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Kalispell
Posts: 14,743
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glennbo View Post
No, but the clone track is being dynamically delayed and pitch modified, so I would guess they aren't in phase.

I threw that together playing back an existing guitar solo as the source. Later I plugged in my SG and the instance of ReaPitch has so much latency, you can't really play live through it, so I temporarily bypassed ReaPitch, recorded a new track of guitar, then enabled ReaPitch and got the doubling effect.

Edit: I put an existing track of some clean mono jazz guitar through the track template. First is the original mono track, followed by the same guitar played through the track template. The pitch and delay of the right side is very subtle, only changing by a few cents and milliseconds, but it makes it so the left and right are not identical.

https://www.soundclick.com/music/son...ongID=14297094

Also, if you wanted the delay and pitch to be more random than modulating on amplitude, you could turn on the LFOs and add constant movement of pitch and position to the amplitude modulation.

.
Yeah, the second one was much better, better tone.
Tod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2021, 11:35 PM   #15
tomo34
Human being with feelings
 
tomo34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 106
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glennbo View Post
For kicks, I just created this track template that uses two tracks, with the first being the track for guitar. The second track is being fed signal from the first that is then processed by ReaDelay but the length of ms is being modulated by volume so the clone track shifts position based on volume. The second effect is ReaPitch which is also being parameter modulated so the pitch of the clone track moves by cents based on volume. Lastly the two tracks are hard panned so the original guitar part is on the left and the cloned guitar is on the right with its position and pitch being slightly tweaked by the volume of the first track.

https://forum.cockos.com/attachment....1&d=1629040105

.
Thanks! This is very interesting.
tomo34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2021, 07:42 AM   #16
Glennbo
Human being with feelings
 
Glennbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 9,013
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomo34 View Post
Thanks! This is very interesting.
You bet! If you pan both sides to the center, you'll hear some chorusing and slap, but when they are on opposing sides, it's not noticeable, and they are not identical.

Oh, and if you want to monitor through while playing, just temporarily bypass ReaPitch because it has high latency for live monitoring.
__________________
Glennbo
Hear My Music - Click Me!!!
--
Glennbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:50 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.