Old 06-24-2021, 10:13 AM   #1
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Default Hardware compressor or Interface w DSP?

small recording chain has been Mic > Pre73jr, Insert: Mooer Yellow Comp pedal > Tascam US-600.

I use this for guitars and vocals. I will switch the compressor in or out depending on the source. I like the control it offers and it also sounds good most of the time. The problem is it has no GR meter, so I only have my ears to tell me how much squish is happening.

I'm considering a hardware comp with a GR meter and a bit of colour like the RNLA or Art Pro VLA II. I like the gentle leveling amp sound.

These aren't exactly cheap, especially for a hobbyist. So I'm wondering if it's more advantageous to pick up an interface w DSP and record through a "live" plugin.
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Old 06-24-2021, 01:03 PM   #2
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I have the PRO VLA II and maybe OK for vocals but I have yet to like anything it does to guitar. It just isn't gentle in my experience, it's either too little or way too much (and I don't trust the GR meters based on my ears). So much so I'll probably get rid of it at some point. Also, no side chain or SC HP filter is limiting for my uses (pun not intended).

I also have an FMR RNC (the compressor version), I really like it but I haven't used it lately, not because I don't like it, I just sort of forgot I had it. I should get that puppy back out and replace the VLA with it.

Conversely, I have some 1176 type compressors in my UA 4-710 D. Just as a comparison, it's like I can't make those sound bad on most any source I throw at it, so it's not me, it's that the VLA doesn't fit much of anything I would use it for YMMV/IMHO.
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Old 06-24-2021, 01:24 PM   #3
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I also have an FMR RNC (the compressor version), I really like it but I haven't used it lately, not because I don't like it, I just sort of forgot I had it. I should get that puppy back out and replace the VLA with it.
I used an FMR RNC for many many years and loved it, but I found I was using it less and less, even though it was plugged in between the mic pres and audio device.

When I bought it I was recording 16 bit @ 44.1k and it made sense to shave off some peaks going in, but I run 24 bit @ 48k now, and really don't think it's necessary any more. I sold my RNC a couple years ago and put the money towards other gear that I do use.

That said, the RNC in Really Nice mode does triple stage compression that is extremely smooth. If you gotta have a hardware compressor, that's the most bang per buck one you can get.

One thing that threw me at first with the RNC on bass was that it's detection circuitry is so fast that you need to set a long release or else it will trigger with each oscillation of the string.
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Old 06-24-2021, 02:01 PM   #4
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^Some tracks I always compress and/or EQ on the way in such as bass/vox and want it burned in. As much as I like computers, I also hate them so I keep my hardware around and use it for the most part.
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Old 06-24-2021, 02:25 PM   #5
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For both bass and guitar I play through hardware preamps with multi FX. Both have compression and other FX that get recorded going in. I prefer to get the sound for those instruments outside the box, just like I'd play them if not recording.
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Old 06-24-2021, 04:54 PM   #6
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This all confirms many of my thoughts. I appreciate the frank opinions of the VLA too.

If money were no option, I'd head straight for the LA-2A or Vari-mu options.

I'm still interested to hear if anyone tracks with DSP compressors.
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Old 08-14-2021, 11:41 AM   #7
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I track with DSP compression/gate as follows.

UA Apollo Twin Mk2 Quad audio interface with a SSL channel strip running as a Unison Insert FX.
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Old 08-15-2021, 11:43 AM   #8
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Me too. The only hardware I now use when recording is a Golden Age Pre73 and occasionally a Joe Meek VC1, both of which end up being used 90% of the time for vocals only.

It seems like hardware equipment that doesn`t cost the earth is slowly but surely getting overtaken by the improvements to plugin quality.
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Old 08-15-2021, 01:34 PM   #9
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Before good compressor / limiter plugins came along I have 2 old stereo Dyna-mite limiters I bought back in the 70s. They were great for dialing in just the right amount of compression on vocals.





Now days, for recording vocals, I just send the output of the track I'm recording on, to a sub-bus that has a compressor on it. Singers love it, it puts them right up front so they can hear themselves. Any compressor will do, but lately I've been using CLA-2A comps, I've got 2 of them, one Waves the other NI, either one works very well.
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Old 08-17-2021, 12:09 PM   #10
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Softube makes an emulation of the Dyna-Mite limiters.

https://www.softube.com/dmite

So routing wise, the singer is monitoring the sub-buss?
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Old 08-17-2021, 12:29 PM   #11
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I have a motu 828 that has some DSP for tracking, only used a few times and couldn't dial in the sound I wanted/was used to...so I stopped trying, haha. The channel strip comp doesnt have any metering so it's hard for me to dial things in.

I also have the VLA, but I use it for mixing as I also don't like the way it sounds for tracking vox...but it does a nice job as a final leveler for the vox bus....sometimes too harsh though...

I also use a Comp2A that is just amazing on vocals and I'll usually track with -5 db GR or even more...depending.

Lastly I also have the art ProChannel that has a similar (or identical?) comp to the VLA...but to me it doesn't sound that great on most stuff and it seems to suck a lot of DB from the signal that can't be returned "nicely". I don't even use it anymore really.

edit: I can also add that I also use some zero pdc and low cpu-use plugins. Specifically the Slate VMR which has many flavors of comps available, and depending on your computer setup you should be able to use for tracking no problem.
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Old 08-18-2021, 07:38 PM   #12
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Softube makes an emulation of the Dyna-Mite limiters.

https://www.softube.com/dmite
Yeah I noticed that while I was researching to see if they were still available. I haven't used my real ones for a long time, might be worth a try sometime.

Quote:
So routing wise, the singer is monitoring the sub-buss?
You're talking about my current way of recording the vocals? Yeah, I have direct monitoring but it would be dry with no compression or effects.

All you have to do is rout the input track to the sub bus with the compression. Singers usually like some reverb, so I'll send the compression bus to a reverb bus. Both busses will then go to the Sub Master track. You can also use any other FX you might like, and the most important thing, is the singer gets all the advantages of the various FX but is still printed dry.
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Old 08-19-2021, 09:50 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by kirk1701 View Post
Small recording chain has been Mic > Pre73jr, Insert: Mooer Yellow Comp pedal > Tascam US-600.

The problem is it has no GR meter, so I only have my ears to tell me how much squish is happening.

I'm considering a hardware comp with a GR meter.

These aren't exactly cheap, especially for a hobbyist.
You can always tell how much squishing is happening if you simply load up
a J-scope plugin and turn your compressor On\OFF. It will show you the effect on the waveform itself. it's got a scale so... you are covered.

J-scope (free!).
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Old 08-19-2021, 09:54 AM   #14
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Yeah I noticed that while I was researching to see if they were still available. I haven't used my real ones for a long time, might be worth a try sometime.



You're talking about my current way of recording the vocals? Yeah, I have direct monitoring but it would be dry with no compression or effects.

All you have to do is rout the input track to the sub bus with the compression. Singers usually like some reverb, so I'll send the compression bus to a reverb bus. Both busses will then go to the Sub Master track. You can also use any other FX you might like, and the most important thing, is the singer gets all the advantages of the various FX but is still printed dry.
I think I understand. I'm going to try that.
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Old 08-19-2021, 11:09 AM   #15
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I think I understand. I'm going to try that.
An important aspect of this Kirk, is you can get the vocal right out front and still record at a moderate level to avoid clipping.
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Old 08-19-2021, 12:54 PM   #16
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An important aspect of this Kirk, is you can get the vocal right out front and still record at a moderate level to avoid clipping.
Yes indeed. I only record myself thus far, but if I can't hear myself, I can't stay on pitch.

Another routing question: is the monitor buss output through the mixbuss or as a separate hardware send?
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Old 08-19-2021, 01:54 PM   #17
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Another routing question: is the monitor buss output through the mixbuss or as a separate hardware send?
Here is a video that shows my routing.

https://youtu.be/9N824U57D-0

In my case the signal is going through my Master track to Reaper's MASTER track and then on to my interface where I have my earphones hooked up too.
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Old 08-19-2021, 08:01 PM   #18
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Here is a video that shows my routing.

https://youtu.be/9N824U57D-0

In my case the signal is going through my Master track to Reaper's MASTER track and then on to my interface where I have my earphones hooked up too.
Excellent video. Lots of information in there, especially how you're using SPAN. Those reference profiles are gold! I'd love to know how you've configured SPAN.

I'm already using your SubMaster-MasterFX-MASTER routing. None of those buses are VCAs?
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Old 08-20-2021, 10:23 AM   #19
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Excellent video. Lots of information in there, especially how you're using SPAN. Those reference profiles are gold! I'd love to know how you've configured SPAN.

I'm already using your SubMaster-MasterFX-MASTER routing. None of those buses are VCAs?
Do you have a fairly recent version of Span Kirk.

My son is getting married today so I'm tied up, but I'll see if I can't put something together tomorrow.
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Old 08-20-2021, 02:30 PM   #20
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2 compressors that usually fly under the radar are the Symetrix 525 (love it for vocal tracking) and of course the mighty dbx 163x (great for everything, if used subtly, and your snares will love it, too).
What I havent't tested yet are the supposedly very good KT (Behringer) reissues - you can probably afford an LA2A clone.
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Old 08-20-2021, 07:39 PM   #21
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Do you have a fairly recent version of Span Kirk.

My son is getting married today so I'm tied up, but I'll see if I can't put something together tomorrow.
I have the latest version of SPAN.

Congratulations on your son's nuptials!
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Old 08-21-2021, 09:46 AM   #22
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My son is getting married today

Great news, Tod! I hope it went really really well for all of you.
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Old 08-22-2021, 07:01 PM   #23
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I have the latest version of SPAN.

Congratulations on your son's nuptials!
Thanks Kirk, and sorry, I've been very busy with several relatives from out of town that were here for the wedding so I'll try get to this in the next couple of days.

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Great news, Tod! I hope it went really really well for all of you.
Thanks Ivan, it was a great wedding, it was held in a place called "Tamarack Lodge", located right across the road from the main entrance to Glacier National Park.

Ha ha, it's been many many years since I've had a hang-over, but I had a doozy the morning after.
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Old 08-23-2021, 04:25 PM   #24
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Okay, here is a pdf you can download that shows one of my routings.

https://stash.reaper.fm/42677/One%20...n%20Reaper.pdf

Let me know if it helps and/or if you have any questions.
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Old 08-24-2021, 01:16 PM   #25
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Okay, here is a pdf you can download that shows one of my routings.

https://stash.reaper.fm/42677/One%20...n%20Reaper.pdf

Let me know if it helps and/or if you have any questions.
The sine sweep is for what exactly?
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Old 08-24-2021, 03:48 PM   #26
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The sine sweep is for what exactly?
They are my profiles, each profile represents the average curve of the curves of several different songs. They are derived from songs that sound really good from bottom to top (20hz to 20Khz). I find that nearly all well mixed and mastered songs will fit these profiles to some degree.

However, every song will have it's own inherent and unique qualities, so I take that into account when I've using these profiles to mix and/or master songs.

Here's a song I mixed and mastered for for a guy named Joby, it's actually a test between my master and LANDR's master. The curves are almost exactly the same and they sound nearly the same, however if you listen real close you should be able to hear mine sounding slightly more open.

https://youtu.be/4FA9NRYK2Ns

Here's another song I mastered, it's a song I recorded with my daughter singing. This shows one of the unique ways I used the 3 spans to decide how I should master this particular song.

https://youtu.be/j8pG4CZ5PXg

If you or anyone else would like to try these profiles Kirk, let me know. It would take a bit to get them together, but I'd be glad to do for you or any one else.
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Old 08-24-2021, 07:29 PM   #27
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They are my profiles, each profile represents the average curve of the curves of several different songs. They are derived from songs that sound really good from bottom to top (20hz to 20Khz). I find that nearly all well mixed and mastered songs will fit these profiles to some degree.

However, every song will have it's own inherent and unique qualities, so I take that into account when I've using these profiles to mix and/or master songs.

Here's a song I mixed and mastered for for a guy named Joby, it's actually a test between my master and LANDR's master. The curves are almost exactly the same and they sound nearly the same, however if you listen real close you should be able to hear mine sounding slightly more open.

https://youtu.be/4FA9NRYK2Ns

Here's another song I mastered, it's a song I recorded with my daughter singing. This shows one of the unique ways I used the 3 spans to decide how I should master this particular song.

https://youtu.be/j8pG4CZ5PXg

If you or anyone else would like to try these profiles Kirk, let me know. It would take a bit to get them together, but I'd be glad to do for you or any one else.
I would most definitely like to try your profiles, if it's not too much trouble.
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