Old 09-07-2021, 07:53 PM   #1
jmob77
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Default Gain Structure For Drums

Hello.

I have been using the following basic approach to gain staging my acoustic drum tracks. I record overheads plus snare and bass drum mics:

1. Record tracks in peaking between -18 and -12dB
2. Apply a small amount of compression to each drum track
3. Boost gain 5-7dB (on average) using the compressors gain stage
4. Apply compression to drum buss and boost again on compressors gain stage

I am wondering if anyone has recommendations of anything to change or add to this process?

Many thanks from NYC...
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Old 09-07-2021, 08:03 PM   #2
Glennbo
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I use the trim knob on all the inputs of my audio interface so I'm lighting up a green signal present light, but not a red peak light.

How ever much that equates to, is what REAPER gets. I use seven discreet channels/mics for acoustic drums.
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Old 09-08-2021, 12:54 AM   #3
White Tie
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I am wondering if anyone has recommendations of anything to change or add to this process?
You can stop doing all of that, just get a good input level to your converters. Job done.

None of what you have said will make any difference to anything audible. Digital audio is just numbers, and anything that happens to increase or decrease the size of those numbers is just mathematics. It is comparable to volume or gain in analogue systems, but that's where the similarity ends; wherever you do it the signal flow of a floating point system simply doesn't matter. They are the same thing. It provably, objectively doesn't matter. Its just maths

Record your drums so you are getting sufficient level that you are out of the noise floor of your preamps, but not too much that there is any danger of them clipping. Ignore all this -18dB stuff, that might be correct sometimes but not others, no one can say so who isn't in your session and working with your sources.

Don't compress anything, ever, unless you personally make the artistic choice to do so. In the old days a little compression going to tape was worthwhile (but only if artistically appropriate) because of the limitations of tape. Some people role-play that those limitations are still present in digital audio, and are even desirable, which is wrong. This is good news, rejoice

I seem to have made this weird YouTube fed 'gain staging' misinformation the hill on which I die. Apologies if I have ranted at you, and please believe me that I'm just trying to stop this muddle-headed silliness from spreading to the Reaper forum.
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Old 09-08-2021, 08:36 AM   #4
Kenny Gioia
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I am wondering if anyone has recommendations of anything to change or add to this process?
I would compress a lot more on each individual track and the drum buss. But that's also an artistic choice. Make it sound good.

Also, stop calling it "gain staging". You're just recording and processing your drums. As long as you get good levels coming in, you're fine. Just don't clip the Master track at the end of it's chain.
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Old 09-08-2021, 08:41 AM   #5
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1. Record tracks in peaking between -18 and -12dB
Yeah...
I'm not sure where the -18dB "tradition" came from. Digital recording levels are not critical as long as you avoid clipping. You can get close to 0dB as long as you don't "try" to go over. Drums can be unpredictable so you might have to leave more headroom than some other sources (although most acoustic instruments are unpredictable).

Low (digital) levels aren't a problem unless they are VERY low, especially if you are recording at 24-bits. Low analog levels can be a problem, or an indication of a problem, but turning-down the knob on your interface doesn't hurt anything.

Headroom is a funny thing... If you don't use it you didn't need it and if you do use it, it's no longer headroom!


[quote]2. Apply a small amount of compression to each drum track
/quote]That's up to you but of course with low levels you'll have to set a low threshold or compression won't do anything.

Quote:
3.[ Boost gain 5-7dB (on average) using the compressors gain stage
4. Apply compression to drum buss and boost again on compressors gain stage
Again, it's up to you, depending on how it sounds and how it fits into the mix. You'll probably be adjusting the levels during mixing anyway.
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Old 09-08-2021, 08:48 AM   #6
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Yeah...
I'm not sure where the -18dB "tradition" came from.
I think it's still a good one. There's really no point in going much higher. As you said, the danger is going too low (like super too low) or too high and clipping. If you average around -18, your odds of doing either are greatly diminished.

Going -12 is probably fine but if you go to -8 or higher on drums, one loud hit can clip. So what's the benefit?
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Old 09-18-2021, 08:39 AM   #7
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There's stock advice to record at -18db rms (NOT PEAK!) when you don't know what kind of surprise peaks might come along. That usually results in no peaks hitting zero and clipping. That's the point: Don't clip your inputs. Honestly, seeing the -18 number but then talking about peaks sounds for all the world like someone played telephone game with this.

Recording with the peaks down to -18db and just avoiding the top 3 bits of your AD converter for no good reason is a strange thing to do. Most AD converters nowadays have good resolution with lower signals and all but that's still unwise IMHO.

On the other hand, you get a 21 bit recording out of that at the end and should be none the wiser. Another plug for 24 bit recording!
And if you really are concerned there might be a surprise peak that might clip if you didn't give yourself an extra large safety net, still better safe than sorry! Drummers are in fact good for surprises!
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Old 09-18-2021, 01:51 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by DVDdoug View Post
Yeah...
I'm not sure where the -18dB "tradition" came from.
Not much reason to "make" things that level, it will happen automatically. If you record a "unity" gain line signal into a DAW it's going to show up 'around' such levels post recording. +18 is a comfortable ballpark for how far above 0dB analog can go before clipping and we have to make room for that on the digital scale.

So if you run a preamped line signal, such as a sine wave into reaper so that it is as close as you can get to 0 dBFS, that means the preamp (or it's output if it has one) is being pushed double digits hotter than unity.

The thing to do is the same, don't worry, use your ears, don't clip in the ADC but the above is one root cause of the "tradition" before it got mangled into all the myths that exist today. It's just the general area where unity in analog is going to show up on a digital dBFS scale.
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