Old 03-26-2018, 05:14 PM   #1
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Default Decent Search Engine....?

Hi guys and gals. This isn't about Reaper's search engine, but search engines in general. Maybe not the best place to post the issue, but a lot of you here are pretty puter sharp, and I trust a lot of the opinions and advice here.
My problem is with Google. Or Yahoo, or Bing or just about any other search engine that I know of. I just want to search for something and get relevant results as opposed to pages of shopping ads.
I have a Takamine guitar. Japanese-built with a cool tube 2 preamp. It's acting weird, and it's the 2nd one I've had in this guitar. I search for 'bypassing cool tube preamp', as an example. Or 'Takamine pickup directly into Baggs Para DI". I get dozens of ads with cool tube preamps for sale. Or I find a hundred places where I can buy a Baggs Para DI. I just want information relevant to what I'm searching for.
Is there such a thing as a search engine that isn't primarily commerce-driven so we don't have to wade through so many damn sales pitches? I've tried the quotes, the parenthesis, but it makes no difference. Is there something else I can do to narrow a search and omit a ton of shopping results? It drives me crazy. Any insight is appreciated. Thanks!
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Old 03-26-2018, 05:32 PM   #2
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Hi guys and gals. This isn't about Reaper's search engine, but search engines in general. Maybe not the best place to post the issue, but a lot of you here are pretty puter sharp, and I trust a lot of the opinions and advice here.
My problem is with Google. Or Yahoo, or Bing or just about any other search engine that I know of. I just want to search for something and get relevant results as opposed to pages of shopping ads.
I have a Takamine guitar. Japanese-built with a cool tube 2 preamp. It's acting weird, and it's the 2nd one I've had in this guitar. I search for 'bypassing cool tube preamp', as an example. Or 'Takamine pickup directly into Baggs Para DI". I get dozens of ads with cool tube preamps for sale. Or I find a hundred places where I can buy a Baggs Para DI. I just want information relevant to what I'm searching for.
Is there such a thing as a search engine that isn't primarily commerce-driven so we don't have to wade through so many damn sales pitches? I've tried the quotes, the parenthesis, but it makes no difference. Is there something else I can do to narrow a search and omit a ton of shopping results? It drives me crazy. Any insight is appreciated. Thanks!

I know many of the Microsoft fan club on reaper forum will post otherwise, with Microsoft browser it always would say the connection was bad which was completely false this would occur when I was not connecting to a Microsoft site so I switched to opera which I no longer have the problem like before.

Also in the settings for opera there is a check box to block Facebook ads check out the settings.

Last edited by Curtis; 03-26-2018 at 05:38 PM.
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Old 03-26-2018, 05:37 PM   #3
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I don't think it has anything to do with the browser. Google is Google whether you're getting there from Opera or Chrome or Edge or whatever. It's just that all these search engines, in fact, the majority of the internet has been taken over by merchants. It's not the information super highway anymore. It's a big giant sale ad.
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Old 03-26-2018, 05:58 PM   #4
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I know many of the Microsoft fan club on reaper forum will post otherwise,
It's really just trying to dispel ignorance (like thinking a browser has anything to do with search results), it's fine to spew whatever but it's as fine for someone who knows, to reply with the real answer - if anything, readers deserve accurate info in addition to someone getting frustration off their chest.

To the OP:

Search engines could be better as they do seem to ignore some of the old school methods of advanced searching. However, looking at the way you are searching, I think you could improve your results a bit by changing how your form your searches. For example if some device isn't working right, use terms that lead in that direction...


"Takamine" "CPT-2 Preamp not working"

"Takamine" "CPT-2 Problems"

"Takamine" "Bypass CPT-2 Preamp?"

By thinking out of the box a little, looking at pictures from those same searches (the images link) of a CPT-2 shows an on/off switch on the backside, maybe that will help. You might also click settings on the google or other search engines aka the advanced search tab, by using it, and observing how it formulated the search you can figure out how to just do them yourself. A couple light examples:

"foo" AND "bar" - should find mostly results that contain both both words.

"foo" +"bar" - should get results with both but bar must be in the result.

+"takamine preamp" -"review" - should find results for takamine preamps but not return reviews for them.

site:forum.cockos.com +"takamine preamp" +"ReaEQ" - should only results from this forum where takamine preamp is found and ReaEQ is found.

Once you get a handle on how they behave you can be crafty and trick it more into what you want, hope this helps. Another potential gotcha is searches tend to use meta data tags, which were originally intended for search engines, the problem there is you can get search results that found the word in that meta data but it wasn't actually in the visible content of the page (arrrg!).
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Old 03-26-2018, 06:04 PM   #5
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Yes it helps a bit. Thank you and I'll try those suggestions.
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Old 03-26-2018, 06:08 PM   #6
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Something I forgot to add...

Bypassing the CPT-2 is likely a rare occurrence in general so some of what you are getting are the "leftovers" of matches, after what you really wanted came up mostly nil.
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Old 03-26-2018, 09:41 PM   #7
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I have found Thunderbird to be good

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Old 03-26-2018, 10:00 PM   #8
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Thunderbird isn't a search engine.

You could try Duck Duck Go.

Google has gone to absolute shit in the past few years. Bing is as good
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Old 03-27-2018, 01:01 AM   #9
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This isn't really a problem of advertising, but a problem of computers not being very good at understanding context, and of the very specific nature of the searches you are doing.

What kabromusic said is very good advice.

Also, the chances of a discussion or page with the exact text "Takamine pickup directly into Baggs Para DI" is fairly low.

Given how stupid computers are, it's actually pretty impressive that search engines return as many useful results as they do.
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Old 03-27-2018, 01:15 AM   #10
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Sorry Sir....

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Thunderbird isn't a search engine.

You could try Duck Duck Go.

Google has gone to absolute shit in the past few years. Bing is as good
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Old 03-27-2018, 05:37 AM   #11
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Sorry Sir....

Grinder
Don't let it happen again! Your mother and I are very disappointed but we're willing to overlook this, just this once.

Back on topic, Googles removal of search terms makes it hard even if you do search the right thing. If you add quotes then it searches for that exact string which can be too strict. The frustration is that they used to not do that.
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Old 03-27-2018, 06:01 AM   #12
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https://pi-hole.net
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Old 03-27-2018, 06:17 AM   #13
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If you add quotes then it searches for that exact string which can be too strict. The frustration is that they used to not do that.
I don't remember when that wasn't the case, it's been a unofficial standard of search engines for as long as I can remember - they are essentially SQL queries (duh ), hence the reason AND/OR usually work. It's there for good reason, if one doesn't want exact spelling, don't use quotes. Of course "term" = exact spelling but +"term" means exact spelling AND inclusion if using more than one word and of course -"term" means ignore regardless. Tbh, - (minus) is one of the most useful in order to weed out irrelevant hits as you go.
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Old 03-27-2018, 07:44 AM   #14
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I don't remember when that wasn't the case, it's been a unofficial standard of search engines for as long as I can remember - they are essentially SQL queries (duh ), hence the reason AND/OR usually work. It's there for good reason, if one doesn't want exact spelling, don't use quotes. Of course "term" = exact spelling but +"term" means exact spelling AND inclusion if using more than one word and of course -"term" means ignore regardless. Tbh, - (minus) is one of the most useful in order to weed out irrelevant hits as you go.
I was typing on my phone and ran two unrelated sentences next to each other, and ended up not being clear.

Google used to show only results that included your terms. Now they show results with one or more search terms in strike through / "missing," which I don't understand the utility of. As you helpfully describe, I can search for something and deliberately omit a term - whynafuq would they do that for me?

I dunno, I'm just complaining. Most of the time I can find what I need. I just remember about 7-8 years ago it seemed like magic - you could find literally anything on the first page of results. Now, there's tons of other junk that, IMHO, is obviously unnecessary and unrelated. What do I know though, I'm not a SEO specialist...
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Old 03-27-2018, 07:57 AM   #15
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If you use Chrome (or Iron, the chrome-based browser I use that doesn't send all your data to Google), there is an extension called Personal Blocklist that can filter domains or sites you specify from all your search results.

I use it, e.g., so that my search results don't contain any results from Pinterest. Even though I've deleted my Pinterest account, for some reason Google (or Startpage, the search engine I use that doesn't send all you data to Google) thinks that when I'm shopping for gear what I actually want to see is Pinterest collections of pictures of gear posted by random people.

Also +1 to using search filters like quotes, the minus sign, etc. etc.

$0.02
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Old 03-27-2018, 08:04 AM   #16
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I was typing on my phone and ran two unrelated sentences next to each other, and ended up not being clear.
It's all good. I agree it's a little more finicky. Bing is a bit worse and it used to be better (believe it or not) but now it ignores some of the long-standing criteria which is super annoying. It's a farking database, allow me to structure my queries for success FFS.
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Old 03-27-2018, 11:37 AM   #17
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I did try to search a topic and used -buy -shopping and did get a lot fewer results from Amazon, Sweetwater, etc. Now it's a matter of choosing the right words and enough of them to omit. Thanks everyone. It's getting a little better.
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Old 03-27-2018, 01:52 PM   #18
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Google sucks, sorry. Too busy filtering stuff they don't want you to see, like the word "torrent" for example.


Used to be you would get results showing what the majority of other people were searching for, but not any more.


I miss the old days of the internet. It used to be a new frontier, now it's totally controlled by our masters. Which is OK, they know what's best.
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Old 03-27-2018, 02:33 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Reason View Post
Thunderbird isn't a search engine.

You could try Duck Duck Go.

Google has gone to absolute shit in the past few years. Bing is as good
+1

DDG uses the Yahoo index. It also protects your privacy. You'll get far fewer links, but much more to the point.

And if DDG doesn't give you anything, add "g!" to the search phrase and it will direct you to Google encrypted. That should yield less advertising.

You could also add a browser extension like Ghostery to suppress most advertising everywhere. Your browser will be faster and a lot more secure.

https://www.ghostery.com/

You'd think that these ad agencies would have fixed the problem of Flash and Javascript ads being used to spread malware by now. But, alas, no. Google has put in a lot of effort, but the rest still pretends it's not their problem. And they'll keep pretending until everybody is running an adblocker. Then they'll try to outlaw adblockers...
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Old 03-27-2018, 03:35 PM   #20
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Don't forget internet in sheer size is exponentially larger than previously; even in 2006 total usage was 15% of the global population, contrast that with 54% in December of 2017. The amount of content to search through is as large comparatively if not larger.

What I have seen is loosening of some constraints in an effort to get more results or simply that growth, it's not like I'm weeding through ads, it's overuse of meta data sending back results where the term isn't actually on the page found and in one case ignoring +"term". I can usually find what I want if it actually exists - I can test this using my own few sites that are miniscule sitting on my own server (but I know what they contain) and can get results back every time by simply being aware of that so I know the searches are useable but it's like music in 2018 - there are so many bands, it's hard to find 'one' if that makes sense.
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Old 03-28-2018, 03:10 PM   #21
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+1

You'd think that these ad agencies would have fixed the problem of Flash and Javascript ads being used to spread malware by now. But, alas, no. Google has put in a lot of effort, but the rest still pretends it's not their problem. And they'll keep pretending until everybody is running an adblocker. Then they'll try to outlaw adblockers...
There are already sites that have pop-ups stating that the ad blocker needs to be turned off to continue. And it does, too. You can't get anywhere with it on. I don't remember the sites but I've seen a few.
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Old 03-28-2018, 03:34 PM   #22
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There are already sites that have pop-ups stating that the ad blocker needs to be turned off to continue. And it does, too. You can't get anywhere with it on. I don't remember the sites but I've seen a few.
I generally don't bother with those sites. If it's not worth it to them to vet the ads they run, it's not worth it to me to get their content. Wired, Forbes, Business Insider, AV Club have all fallen by the wayside for me. They don't lose any ad revenue, just a single viewer in terms of click metrics, and I don't lose anything of value. Sounds like a win win!
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Old 03-28-2018, 07:47 PM   #23
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I've been trying to decide if it's Google going to shit or just more shit for Google to go through!

I'll still do Google searches. I'll do an Ebay search too. You might learn some keywords if nothing else. This has gone downhill too it seems but still useful.

Some stuff is a ringer to search for. The band "Yes".

I should try Duck Duck Go?
Blocking adblock? By by then. Internets should have thought of that before it got greedy. Sorry, no more ads for you and it's very much too late to appeal.
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Old 03-29-2018, 09:51 AM   #24
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Hell, I'm just happy to be able to search without having to wade through pages and pages of - shall we say - *questionable * links.
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Old 03-29-2018, 03:29 PM   #25
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What's wildly different these days, is the number of companies that make their money from Google poisoning.

I was looking for a simple schematic just now and even in something as technical as that, the number of sites that don't offer anything but score well and appear high on search engines is amazing. They just aggregate content from other sites, or even gibberish text.

Add that to generic names, like the band "Yes", or the manufacturer "Sound Devices" and it's next to impossible to find anything.
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Old 03-29-2018, 03:31 PM   #26
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There are already sites that have pop-ups stating that the ad blocker needs to be turned off to continue. And it does, too. You can't get anywhere with it on. I don't remember the sites but I've seen a few.
I just don't care about those. There's so much info available. I'll happily find it elsewhere.
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Old 03-29-2018, 04:08 PM   #27
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I was looking for a simple schematic just now and even in something as technical as that, the number of sites that don't offer anything but score well and appear high on search engines is amazing. They just aggregate content from other sites, or even gibberish text.
Sounds like when I go searching for datasheets.
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Old 03-29-2018, 04:59 PM   #28
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I just don't care about those. There's so much info available. I'll happily find it elsewhere.
Yeah me either. Just responding to a previous post about outlawing ad blockers. These sites have already found ways to stop you from browsing unless you let them bombard you with their ads. I don't disable my ad blocker.

I hate to imagine what the internet will be in another 10 years. It's taken just a short time to transform it into a big perpetual commercial.
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Old 03-29-2018, 05:06 PM   #29
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Here's something I just found a few minutes ago. MillionShort search engine. Allows you to omit results from up to one million top sites. I'm still playing around with it, but there's very few ads so far.

https://millionshort.com/
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Old 04-01-2018, 03:52 PM   #30
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Here's something I just found a few minutes ago. MillionShort search engine. Allows you to omit results from up to one million top sites. I'm still playing around with it, but there's very few ads so far.

https://millionshort.com/
Thanks, that's new to me.

A short test: there's an option to remove E-commerce sites. Very interesting, so I click. Well, I'll be damned. Ebay still shows. WTF!
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Old 04-01-2018, 07:34 PM   #31
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You could try using slimjet browser with duckduckgo to search, see if you like that.
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Old 04-07-2018, 05:48 AM   #32
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I've been trying to decide if it's Google going to shit or just more shit for Google to go through!
It's Google going to shit. It has nothing to do with the size of the internet.

There's a guy who writes articles that usually end up with a couple of million hits. Used to anyway. So the guy wants to look up an article he wrote recently. He puts in his name, the site where the article was published, and the headline. In the old days, with search terms that specific, you would get exactly what you were looking for as the first hit, and you would say to yourself "good, it's working".

What comes up now is Snopes or some other article "debunking" what he wrote. It's bullshit. It's not organic filtering, it's a purposeful skewing designed to control mindless rubes. And it's happening to tens of thousands of others, along with Youtube demonetization and Twitter shadow banning.

So, we'll see if lawsuits can fix it, or regulation, but what is needed is a competitor who doesn't try to control what the ignorant masses are exposed to.

Zuckerberg and his lieutenants can have their old messages deleted from your timeline, but your stuff will live forever. We'll see how that goes.

But yeah, Google is trash any more, and anyone who has been there from the beginning knows it intuitively if not explicitly.
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Old 04-07-2018, 07:21 AM   #33
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There's a constant war going on between Google, Bing, Yahoo, etc. and the SEO (search engine optimization) people. The latter sell the ability to place your site high in search rankings, with only minimal relevance. As others have observed, looking for an uncommon schematic or transistor is a perfect illustration of this. >:-(

Duck Duck Go seems to provide the highest quality searches currently, likely because they're lower on the SEO target list!

As Karbo pointed out, careful and specific search terms are your friend.
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Old 04-23-2018, 05:16 AM   #34
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It's really just trying to dispel ignorance (like thinking a browser has anything to do with search results), it's fine to spew whatever but it's as fine for someone who knows, to reply with the real answer - if anything, readers deserve accurate info in addition to someone getting frustration off their chest.

To the OP:

Search engines could be better as they do seem to ignore some of the old school methods of advanced searching. However, looking at the way you are searching, I think you could improve your results a bit by changing how your form your searches. For example if some device isn't working right, use terms that lead in that direction...


"Takamine" "CPT-2 Preamp not working"

"Takamine" "CPT-2 Problems"

"Takamine" "Bypass CPT-2 Preamp?"

By thinking out of the box a little, looking at pictures from those same searches (the images link) of a CPT-2 shows an on/off switch on the backside, maybe that will help. You might also click settings on the google or other search engines aka the advanced search tab, by using it, and observing how it formulated the search you can figure out how to just do them yourself. A couple light examples:

"foo" AND "bar" - should find mostly results that contain both both words.

"foo" +"bar" - should get results with both but bar must be in the result.

+"takamine preamp" -"review" - should find results for takamine preamps but not return reviews for them.

site:forum.cockos.com +"takamine preamp" +"ReaEQ" - should only results from this forum where takamine preamp is found and ReaEQ is found.

Once you get a handle on how they behave you can be crafty and trick it more into what you want, hope this helps. Another potential gotcha is searches tend to use meta data tags, which were originally intended for search engines, the problem there is you can get search results that found the word in that meta data but it wasn't actually in the visible content of the page (arrrg!).
Is it me or does the + sign in front of a search term not work for the search engine of this forum?

I never seem to be able to find anything on this forum. I always get a long list of results that are not relevant. Even using the + sign I get results that not contain that term.
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Old 04-23-2018, 05:20 AM   #35
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Duck Duck Go seems to provide the highest quality searches currently, likely because they're lower on the SEO target list!
Agreed!
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Old 04-23-2018, 05:22 AM   #36
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Is it me or does the + sign in front of a search term not work for the search engine of this forum?

I never seem to be able to find anything on this forum. I always get a long list of results that are not relevant. Even using the + sign I get results that not contain that term.
Doesn't work for the search inside this forum but it will if you use this custom google search...

https://cse.google.com/cse/publicurl...49:mlcbfn-mmvk
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Old 04-23-2018, 07:51 AM   #37
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Wow. I'm stunned. How does that work?
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Old 04-23-2018, 08:12 AM   #38
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Wow. I'm stunned. How does that work?
It's sort of an advanced/automatic version of this...

site:forum.cockos.com "search terms"


Which restricts the search results to forum.cockos.com only.
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Music is what feelings sound like.
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Old 04-23-2018, 08:16 AM   #39
Pollo
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 94
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Thanks! That tip is worth gold.
Now I need a way to remember it the next time I need it . It's like those pesky Unix commands.
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