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Old 07-10-2010, 10:04 AM   #41
Dannii
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With all due respect guys, can we please keep this discussion on topic? This is about REAPER's metering options. In other words, enhancements that can cater to the requirements of many more people, whether or not they use the K-System, the analog VU standard, the Dorrough standard, peak metering, RMS, whatever.

If (when hopefully), this is implemented, we will be able to set up REAPER metering however we wish.
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Old 07-11-2010, 02:53 AM   #42
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So the FR now contains the request for
  • Integration times for the RMS display
  • Optional Peak indication with a line of one or two pixels height with its own hold and release times if RMS is displayed as well
  • RMS display weighted(C standard) and unweighted with its own release time
  • three zones of colours with a defined range of dB values for each
  • reference 0dB set for Peak and RMS meters.

I probably missed some stuff.

Cerberus, the K-Meter thing is a simple way to set up a calibrated listening environment, which is what all broadcast and film mixers have done for the past 27 years when Dolby invited hundreds of us to a meeting to set that reference level to 85 dB C-weighted for a specific Dolby noise sound played through each speaker individually.

The ear fatigue catches all of us after a while, but you do learn to deal with it, though rarely if ever by screwing up the room and monitor calibration. Free wheeling this setup instead of sticking to a standard setup is especially dangerous when doing so in the middle of a mix. Your ears will have to adjust to how your own mix so far sounds, and if your ears are tired, get some rest . The question you should always ask yourself is, do you want to complicate your listening situation further or not. A calibrated monitoring environment is one such complication less.
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Old 07-12-2010, 03:15 AM   #43
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so both sides of the argument are presented scientifically, i think it's ok to try it and
see if it works for you. no harm in that. but please be cautious in thinking levels could
be standardized to the delivery chain. imo, we can't say that ambient should ever be
heard at an average of 83db of sound pressure. i also think it's a shame that much
louder monitoring levels can cause permanent ear damage, but we cannot stop that, imo.

Last edited by cerberus; 07-12-2010 at 03:23 AM.
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Old 07-12-2010, 04:03 PM   #44
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57 votes. That's a nice bunch in a short time. This configurability and extended channel monitoring capability should be a nice addition to many peoples existing workflows and those that are to come in to use for Reaper as its ease of use in this area expands.
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Old 07-13-2010, 02:20 AM   #45
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Indeed Airon! Let's keep the momentum going on this one.... 59 votes now. Let's see if we can get the devs to get this into 3.xx of REAPER. 4 is approaching fast..... hint, hint devs
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Old 07-13-2010, 02:34 AM   #46
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Would you prefer a partial implementation in v3 or waiting for v4 and get the full deal?

Answering "both" is not allowed

- Mario
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Old 07-13-2010, 03:20 AM   #47
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Who's to say they're not already working on it?

Judging by the prolific work flow and development of Justin, Christophe and John, anything is possible. Just look at all the new things they've implemented in the last couple of releases!!
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Old 07-14-2010, 07:27 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airon View Post
So the FR now contains the request for
  • Integration times for the RMS display
  • Optional Peak indication with a line of one or two pixels height with its own hold and release times if RMS is displayed as well
  • RMS display weighted(C standard) and unweighted with its own release time
  • three zones of colours with a defined range of dB values for each
  • reference 0dB set for Peak and RMS meters.
.......
I overlooked the RMS weighting options in the FR. Good addition Airon.
I just tried to edit the FR but I kept getting database errors. I'll try again later.
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Old 07-14-2010, 07:35 AM   #49
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This is mutiny, an abomination, downright anarchy!

And I'm all for it.
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Old 07-16-2010, 08:46 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kundalinguist View Post
This is mutiny, an abomination, downright anarchy!

And I'm all for it.
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Old 07-20-2010, 06:06 AM   #51
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69 votes so far on this guys. Let's keep the momentum rolling
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Old 07-20-2010, 06:19 AM   #52
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I'm quite sure it's gonna be implemented, because it's obvious that everyone needs metering corresponding to the number of channels.
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Old 07-22-2010, 05:14 AM   #53
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Multi-channel metering would indeed be a great enhancement. Personally, I'm often working in surround formats larger than 7.1. Reaper is being celebrated in the wider surround sound community for it's open bussing architecture making it ideal for larger surround arrays for installation and theatre sound design. It would be great then, if the metering could be flexible enough to accommodate _any_ number of output channels per track. Obviously, when larger numbers are used, this would probably have to be some kind of 'thumbnail + pop-out' or better yet, scalable by the user.

Being able to switch between different metering ballistics would also be great. I'm not a programmer so I've no idea how hard it would be to implement a system where the user could switch between them but that would obviously be ideal.
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Old 07-24-2010, 05:11 AM   #54
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David, your scalable width and thumbnail/popout idea is pretty much what I would love to see implemented graphically to accomodate this FR. Having variable width MCP channels would be beneficial for reasons other than this FR too. I'd love to be able to fit more tracks in the MCP window while I'm mixing and have the option of zooming in to any level when I want more detail.
Protools does this in a very limited way with it's narrow mix window mode but REAPER could take this so much further.

Perhaps one possibility graphically might be to have a thumbnail/popout view when the tracks are narrower than a given amount and have them revert to full graphics (ie, detailed meter scales etc) in the channel when the width allows.
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Old 08-03-2010, 12:24 AM   #55
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We're up to 93 votes so far guys. Keep 'em rolling in!
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Old 08-03-2010, 04:13 AM   #56
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And mono tracks/monitors pleazors
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Old 08-09-2010, 03:54 AM   #57
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N.N metering on channels. Homany channels you have should appear in the meter. Obviously, if you have more than a certain number the display will get problematic, but some form of selection as to what you see should be available to the user.

The option to meter RMS on the channels would be extremely useful as a first step, let alone K system.
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Old 12-08-2010, 10:30 AM   #58
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We're at 161 votes on this issue.

Personally I think this is not the hardest FR to pull off. Keep pushing.
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Old 12-09-2010, 03:44 PM   #59
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I don't see the need to add complex metering to Reaper when it's already available in VST format.

For me, the metering provided by a DAW should be basic, efficient and not consume excess screen real estate. Anything beyond that I can (and do) enable at any point in the signal path I choose by using VSTs.

A possible compromise would be to improve the docker so that VST UIs could be displayed alongside the mixer either:

- by allowing docker tabs to be shown in split screen

or

- by allowing peg VST UI to mixer as opposed to dock UI (so the VST meters could be shown between mixer channels).

This suggestion could be useful not just for track metering, but also for the UI of any effect (especially dynamics).

In conjunction with this suggestion, it would be preferable if ReaPlugs had metering views (as opposed to the editing view), which would be designed to display information in a format that would fit in a docker and take up little screen space.
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Old 12-09-2010, 04:10 PM   #60
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Default I have a dream.. ;)

RMS on every channel plus being able to choose the meter position (maybe even to the extent of between plug ins/different sets of sub channels or sends.)
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Old 12-17-2010, 11:24 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musicbynumbers View Post
RMS on every channel plus being able to choose the meter position (maybe even to the extent of between plug ins/different sets of sub channels or sends.)
+1 to RMS on channels as well as master (take a look in the V4 multi-channel discussion in the pre release section)
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Old 12-17-2010, 11:40 AM   #62
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Another meters FR: automatic meter numbering (various modes)

Stereo mode: L+R (each label attached to respective meter)
Surround modes: including C, LFE and whatever else needed
Number mode: 1, 2, 3, 4... simple number label on each meter (good for multi-out instruments)

These labels should be:

a) optional of course
b) configurable (e.g. font), perhaps by the theme design

Last edited by Evan; 06-26-2011 at 01:02 PM.
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Old 12-17-2010, 01:45 PM   #63
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i hope the obvious and overlooked nuts and bolts we are asking for in this thread can at least be added, mabe i should make this a separate FR since its so simple to implement?

right click on meters to choose either: input metering, output pre fader, output pre fader post fx, output post fader. this needs to be per track not global. it only lest you do this for RECORD source, i dont want to ever RECORD post fader i just want to meter it sometimes on an input channel that is record enabled. add the options for metering only.

this is issue for input monitoring as well, all 3, record, metering, input monitor should have these options simply separately settable from each other
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Old 12-17-2010, 01:54 PM   #64
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+1 to both you guys.
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Old 12-17-2010, 04:03 PM   #65
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Per-track pre-fader metering is my wet dream, if you add configurable "zero" (e.g. at -18dbFS), it'll turn into an instant orgasm (((:
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Old 12-27-2010, 10:58 AM   #66
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Perhaps, instead of just RMS,

ITU-R BS. 1770/1, EBU R128 and ATSC A/85 compliance could be added.

The ITU document contains the algorithm, ,the EBU document deals with ballistics and targets and the A/85 supplements the importance of it all as stated in the EBU documentation.

This would help a great deal. The algorithm is said to be very light on the CPU. Hope it is :P .

An interesting bunch of videos on the subject. The links are on the already mentioned link to the EBU site :

Loudness Webinar part 1
http://tech.ebu.ch/events/webinar_lo...e/off?id=13224

Loudness Webinar part 2
http://tech.ebu.ch/Jahia/site/tech/c...e/off?id=13390

Loudness
http://tech.ebu.ch/Jahia/site/tech/c...e/off?id=13226
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Last edited by airon; 12-27-2010 at 11:06 AM.
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Old 01-01-2011, 10:45 AM   #67
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(Happy New Year everyone!)

While most of you guys are focusing on multi-channel meters for surround sound, I need to chime in from a VSTi perspective.

Being able to monitor a multi-out instrument, from a single track would resolve a lot of hassles. So that could even take up to 32 stereo meters in a single track, for some instruments! I envision this can be possible with expandable/collapsible meter strips. Something similar to envelope lanes (but a lot more compact).

It will solve many track routing and organizing hassles when this becomes possible.
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Old 01-20-2011, 09:07 AM   #68
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Default Show Post Fader Levels in Meters

I do live event mixing. During the sessions, seeing the Post Fader Levels on the meters in the mixer is essential to me. I can do this is Cubase and this is one of the few features I miss when using Reaper, where I can see only the pre fader pre fx levels.

Of course this must be independent of the recording source. I usually record the track input but want to see the track output level on the meter.

Actually, what I would love to have is an option to display _2_ vu meters per track, one (small) for input level (positioned at the top of the track column) and one (larger) for post fader levels at the current meter position.

I think for live mixing people, where there is no time for switching back and forth between different views and options, this would be a great enhancement.
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Old 01-20-2011, 10:01 AM   #69
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RMS OPTION FOR EVERY TRACK!

come on guys get that plane ticket to Cockos HQ and start the protest!
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Old 01-20-2011, 10:03 AM   #70
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Unless I'm going mad I think it's the other way and that all our meters are post fader unless in record mode so it would be nice to be able to switch to pre fader metering.. that is unless I am mad of course!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dhyan Mikael View Post
I do live event mixing. During the sessions, seeing the Post Fader Levels on the meters in the mixer is essential to me. I can do this is Cubase and this is one of the few features I miss when using Reaper, where I can see only the pre fader pre fx levels.

Of course this must be independent of the recording source. I usually record the track input but want to see the track output level on the meter.

Actually, what I would love to have is an option to display _2_ vu meters per track, one (small) for input level (positioned at the top of the track column) and one (larger) for post fader levels at the current meter position.

I think for live mixing people, where there is no time for switching back and forth between different views and options, this would be a great enhancement.
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Old 01-20-2011, 10:03 AM   #71
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I plane ticket ordered, and picket signs to boot!
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Old 01-20-2011, 10:07 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musicbynumbers View Post
Unless I'm going mad I think it's the other way and that all our meters are post fader unless in record mode so it would be nice to be able to switch to pre fader metering.. that is unless I am mad of course!
Correct..... about meters being post fade on playback that is.
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Old 01-20-2011, 11:49 AM   #73
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did we get a loudness system yet? coz i for one, like things loud.
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Old 01-20-2011, 01:24 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cerberus View Post
did we get a loudness system yet? coz i for one, like things loud.
You have a volume control on your amp for that!
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Old 01-20-2011, 02:02 PM   #75
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i could not find that knob as i was entirely mesmerized by:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/19154663/ReaperMixer-Urban.png
check the size of those meters! like being on the front lines
of both the loudness and u.i. hugeness wars at the same time!
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Old 02-10-2011, 07:16 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evan View Post
Another meters FR: automatic meter numbering (various modes)

Stereo mode: L+R (each label attached to respective meter)
Surround modes: including C, LFE and whatever else needed
Number mode: 1, 2, 3, 4... simple number label on each meter

These labels should be:

a) optional of course
b) configurable (e.g. font), perhaps by the theme design
illustration... (discrete meters on a TCP strip, with labels at the bottom)



EDIT: Labels could be in various modes... 1, 2, 3, 4 or 1/2, 3/4, 5/6 or L/R/C/LS/RS etc..

Last edited by Evan; 03-31-2011 at 04:18 AM.
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Old 03-31-2011, 04:10 AM   #77
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Just giving this topic a little bumpage in light of all the recent updates in the alpha's. I'm really liking the direction V4 is going and it is great to see the beginnings of this FR implemented.

I'm hoping there'll be a few more tweaks to the meters before V4 goes beta. In particular, I'd love to see the option to change the meter dB value text and RMS/peak metering in one line added next.
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Old 04-01-2011, 04:38 PM   #78
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buuUUuUuUUUmmP

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Old 04-02-2011, 03:43 AM   #79
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I've added a new request that also concerns metering. I thought I'd give you folks a headsup, because it does cross the path of this one a little bit.

http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=3307

A small part of it is a request for an LUFS metering mode in the master and tracks the user picks. Think of it as an addition, specific for folks who mix for broadcasting.
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Old 04-04-2011, 08:01 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airon View Post
I've added a new request that also concerns metering. I thought I'd give you folks a headsup, because it does cross the path of this one a little bit.

http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=3307

A small part of it is a request for an LUFS metering mode in the master and tracks the user picks. Think of it as an addition, specific for folks who mix for broadcasting.
Voted +1 Airon.
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