Old 02-15-2018, 03:36 PM   #1
mccrabney
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Default Learns (cc or OSC): set min, max, invert

REAPER's learn system is lacking the means by which to set a minimum and maximum parameter control limits. if your parameter is 0-100, you cannot specify a sweep between limits 45-90. if you attempt to perform this with a controller, you cannot do so reliably without overshooting and undershooting these limits. likewise, the ability to invert the control is unavaible in REAPER.

these functions are helpful to create tight, performable controller manipulations. you see them in ableton, energyxt, i assume others as well.

check out Resolume's midi learn system:

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Old 02-15-2018, 04:45 PM   #2
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REAPER's learn system is lacking the means by which to set a minimum and maximum parameter control limits. if your parameter is 0-100, you cannot specify a sweep between limits 45-90. if you attempt to perform this with a controller, you cannot do so reliably without overshooting and undershooting these limits. likewise, the ability to invert the control is unavailable in REAPER.

these functions are helpful to create tight, performable controller
Learn could be a user friendly place to do this sort of function natively provided the Reaper learning GUI window doesn't get over complicated or even ugly. But it's possible to do the min, max, range, invert or even fancy custom transfer functions today if mapping from Midi input to OSC with the likes of OSCII-bot or anything else.

There are long standing feature requests for 14bit Midi support in native Reaper for better range precision too, and the function suggested would be helpful for relative Midi.

There's also ReaLearn available for this sort of function - see https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=178015
or Midi Links is a script so can be customised to user needs - see https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=170858

Last edited by goldenarpharazon; 02-15-2018 at 05:35 PM. Reason: added Midi Links : offered opinion on simple UI
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Old 02-15-2018, 10:50 PM   #3
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REAPER's learn system is lacking the means by which to set a minimum and maximum parameter control limits.
Do you mean with plugin parameters ? (In Reaper, there are several things that can "learn" Midi messages.)

Regarding parameters, "Learn" is just for "quick and dirty" stuff. A more versatile CC->plugin parameter automation can be done by [param] -> "FX Parameter list" -> "Parameter Modulation/Midi Link" ...

(This also does support high resolution (14 bit) Midi, and using the Midi buses Reaper provides for complex Midi routing.)

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Old 02-17-2018, 06:53 AM   #4
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Regarding parameters, "Learn" is just for "quick and dirty" stuff.
maybe in REAPER, but elsewhere it is as narrow and precise as one wants it to be

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A more versatile CC->plugin parameter automation can be done by [param] -> "FX Parameter list" -> "Parameter Modulation/Midi Link" ...(This also does support high resolution (14 bit) Midi, and using the Midi buses Reaper provides for complex Midi routing.)
unfortunately this doesn't help for those using OSC. neither does ReaLearn.

i very rarely make the case that a native solution is the right place to fix things, but in my opinion the FR is pretty core functionality given how prevalent controllers and virtual instruments are these days. electronic musicians open REAPER and expect to see this functionality in its learn system
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Old 02-17-2018, 08:50 AM   #5
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A big +1 for this.
Seems an obvious thing to add.
Would help with my Quneo too.
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Old 02-17-2018, 08:53 AM   #6
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yeah it's why i haven't used my quneo for more than a 16 pad drum kit
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Old 02-17-2018, 09:45 AM   #7
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I've just tried parameter modulation.
If you click on midi, there is enough control get a working set up
Will have to try more tomorrow.
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Old 02-17-2018, 12:53 PM   #8
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unfortunately this doesn't help for those using OSC.
Of course it does.

You can learn the OSC controller to a slider in ReaControlMidi and then assign the appropriate parameter of the plugin in question to same via [param] -> "FX Parameter list" -> "Parameter Modulation/Midi Link" ...

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Old 02-18-2018, 01:44 PM   #9
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thanks for that ^ i was using Midi Links which seems to be failing to output midi on current ReaPre

using ReaControlMidi works, but it's a pretty leggy workaround just to get a reasonably full Learn function set. it also results in midi being sent to VSTi tracks which might have native learns (like modwheel) and therefor respond unpredictably

the other option would be to include something like Midilinks or a similar, donothing js with sliders of appropriate resolution on each track you want to learn and do a param link, but again, leggy
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Old 02-18-2018, 03:19 PM   #10
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using ReaControlMidi works, but ... it also results in midi being sent
Nope. Unless I am very wrong, moving a slider of ReaMidiControl by hand or from the Reaper Control Engine (where OSC resides) does not result in Midi messages being sent out in the realm of the track's FX chain, and not in the Reaper Control Path (where they could be "learned") either.

And IMHO it is not a "sin" that such very "unusual" stuff takes some effort and expertize to be configured due to it's "legginess" (whatever this means) :

-Michael

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Old 02-18-2018, 05:58 PM   #11
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as shown in many other daws that do midi learn, it's not remotely an esoteric request.

Quote:
Nope. Unless I am very wrong, moving a slider of ReaMidiControl by hand or from the Reaper Control Engine (where OSC resides) does not result in Midi messages being sent out in the realm of the track's FX chain
yeah it does -- you can test this by creating an otherwise empty track and recording midi output while moving a reacontrolmidi slider, or by using a vst with baked-in modwheel feedback (example-micromoon) and moving reacontrolmidi sending modwheel
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Old 02-18-2018, 10:25 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mccrabney View Post
... moving a reacontrolmidi slider ...
By hand ?

I tested exactly this by placing another ReaControlMidi instance behind and looking at the Midi Log:

Nothing logged.

Weired !

-Michael
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Old 11-08-2019, 11:21 AM   #13
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+1. I requested this too. Plus, ability to set ranges would be useful too. Also Learning on sends and receivers is very critical. Realearn adds latency and a disconnection from reaper (I mean API and flexibility which is a big motif of reaper)
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Old 11-09-2019, 05:46 AM   #14
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i just don't use learn anymore, reaching instead for the mouse and AI.

i would prefer to be able to use the myriad controllers out there, as i prefer a controller centric workflow, but between this and a couple of other issues it's just not as fast as mousing in the parameters

this doesn't help performance at all though
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Old 11-09-2019, 07:14 AM   #15
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Thanks mccrabney!

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i just don't use learn anymore, reaching instead for the mouse and AI.
What! no way for me. I am in a 1280 x 800 screen all the turn lane visible, open routing panel andclicking in order to do something is terrible headache.

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i
i would prefer to be able to use the myriad controllers out there, as i prefer a controller centric workflow,
what is myriad controllers?
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Old 11-10-2019, 05:41 AM   #16
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i was referring to learns for fx params. i don't use hardware to draw it in because of issues like OP and lack of decent overdub/overwrite etc for params. i found that i just ended up correcting my recorded controller movements with the mouse anyway.

i would prefer to use controllers for this, because i consider param automation to be a mostly tactile experience that i simulate using mouse-drawn ai.

myriad == "many," referring to all of the options of controllers with knobs, faders, etc with which you can record automation

tldr i still support the FR and anything that let's me use the mouse less
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