Old 07-07-2019, 06:15 PM   #1
grsm1
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Default Windows 10 Update Issues

I have had major issues with my PC as a result of a recent Microsoft update for Windows 10 (update 1809).

Amongst other things, it created problems in running Reaper, to the extent of becoming virtually unusable. So I had to set about solving the problems. Took many hours checking drivers, cleaning up the PC, reinstalling software, making sure all settings were optimised, etc, etc.

In the end I have managed to get things working again, but part of the solution also involved ditching pretty much all 32 bit plugins I had been using and replacing them with 64 bit alternatives. This meant quite a bit of work in active projects, of course. So not real happy about any of this as you can imagine.

The switch to 64 bit plugins was due to the fact that on a 64 bit operating system running a 64 bit version of Reaper, Reaper runs a separate 32 bit version (i.e. ".exe") of itself to be able to process the 32 bit plugins. I noticed that this 32 bit .exe was chewing up a big chunk of CPU capacity (as much as the core 64 bit version of the program). Since the switch across to the almost 100% 64 bit plugins, there is a big improvement in overall usage of the system resources.

Now that was not the only thing that resolved my system problems following the Windows 10 update, and I have seen a few other people in these forums and elsewhere on the Web who have had similar difficulties. Trouble is, there are a variety of sometimes subtly different solutions, even though the problems all sound very much the same.

So I am suggesting that perhaps there should be a single common ongoing thread in the General forum that we can all use to report these Windows 10 update issues and solutions (seems to be a continual problem every time Microsoft release their updates!). I did search for such a thing in the existing discussions, but didn't find it. So if it already exists, I apologise in advance.

Anyone else have any thoughts?
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Old 07-08-2019, 05:00 AM   #2
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I'm on Windows 10 64-bit here and use tons of 32-bit plug-ins so I'm not sure what's going on on your end. Have you tried running latencymon to see if there's a process dominating your CPU?
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Old 07-08-2019, 08:10 AM   #3
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The only issue I have had with win10 updates in either Pro or Home Premium is on my pro-based desktop, which MS have decided to change the default speaker outputs on my RME soundcard every damn time there is a major update. Fortunately I am ready for it now. Mild grrr....
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Old 07-08-2019, 08:14 AM   #4
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No such issues on 1809 and none now on 1903. Same for 'both' Desktop Reaper PC(s).
Sorry for your issues and hope for simple fix.

Last edited by sostenuto; 07-09-2019 at 08:32 AM.
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Old 07-08-2019, 09:31 AM   #5
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My two primary DAW Win 10 systems do not get Windows updates for this very reason. I have the DVD installer for the version just before the Meltdown and Spectre patches and that is the version I run on both rigs. These are DAW systems. Once they're working and configured, I don't need or want to change anything with the OS. It's a different story for general purpose PC systems but these are a long way from being general purpose systems.

Once I have everything configured, all drivers necessary running well, Windows tweaks for DAW use done, plugins installed and REAPER configured to my liking, I do a complete system backup. If anything goes pear shaped later, I can be back up and running again quickly from the backup.

The live engineering and location recording rig I just built does not need to be online at all now so I've completely disabled all wireless and Ethernet hardware.
My studio rig does go online for some things so I have Windows update service disabled and only update the Windows Defender definitions. If the system gets a virus, I have a complete system backup to go back to using Macrium Reflect.

I DON'T want the Spectre or Meltdown patches on ANY of my DAW systems no matter how large or small the impact on performance. I don't care about the miniscule risk it imposes not having things patched. That is one of the reasons I have backups.
Given the purposes my studio DAW has for going online sometimes, the risk of ANY virus or malware is miniscule and I haven't had any issues to date.
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Old 07-08-2019, 05:24 PM   #6
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you might like this:

https://www.sordum.org/9470/windows-...-blocker-v1-3/

we are using it on a couple of win 10 pc's now
much easier than the set of manual tweaks to turn it of and you can
turn the service on or off at will with this little tool
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Old 07-08-2019, 06:41 PM   #7
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I might add, cuz of Dave's post, how much I like AOMIE back up for the last couple of years...

just better for me than anything else I've ever used
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Old 07-08-2019, 07:54 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grsm1 View Post
I have had major issues with my PC as a result of a recent Microsoft update for Windows 10 (update 1809).
I spend about 4 hours with m/s helpdesk and the issue is now elevated to level 3 (liaison with "research engineers", whatever that means), which I am waiting to hear from.

Try as they might, they cannot get 1809 to install.

Will post if they solve the issue for me.
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Old 07-09-2019, 03:56 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerry P View Post
I spend about 4 hours with m/s helpdesk and the issue is now elevated to level 3 (liaison with "research engineers", whatever that means), which I am waiting to hear from.

Try as they might, they cannot get 1809 to install.

Will post if they solve the issue for me.
When it gets escalated to the very top, they will call karbomusic!
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Old 07-09-2019, 05:07 AM   #10
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I installed 1809 yesterday and have no problems.


PS: there is a setting "load updated from computers on the internet", I discovered that if it is set to no, I do not get updated which is just fine with me. That what happens in my location but it may be different in your location. It has nothing to do with the speed of my internet, my internet speed is 25 migabits.
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Old 07-09-2019, 06:02 AM   #11
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@cutnpaste
that's because you are very smart.

@grsm1
you see, windows 10 is only for very smart and lucky people
if you don't consider yourself as a very-very-very smart and lucky person
something will be wrong with the os, well in fact, smth is wrong with you, not with the os, OF COURSE.

once upon a time, a very-very stupid person told me to throw win10 in garbage and go back to win 8.1
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Old 07-09-2019, 10:18 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hopi View Post
you might like this:

https://www.sordum.org/9470/windows-...-blocker-v1-3/

we are using it on a couple of win 10 pc's now
much easier than the set of manual tweaks to turn it of and you can
turn the service on or off at will with this little tool
Thanks for the tip! I'll check it out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hopi View Post
I might add, cuz of Dave's post, how much I like AOMIE back up for the last couple of years...

just better for me than anything else I've ever used
Yep. I've had good results with AOMEI too. Used it for a while after ditching Acronis True Image which used to be great but they lost the plot in the last few releases.
I'd be happy with either AOMEI or Macrium but for my purposes, I have a small preference for Macrium. Both good though.
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Old 07-09-2019, 10:22 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by ReaDave View Post
Thanks for the tip! I'll check it out.


Yep. I've had good results with AOMEI too. Used it for a while after ditching Acronis True Image which used to be great but they lost the plot in the last few releases.
I'd be happy with either AOMEI or Macrium but for my purposes, I have a small preference for Macrium. Both good though.
How did the Acronis True Image lose the plot? I've had no problem storing images of Windows 10 but I haven't tried to restore any lately. What's up?
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Old 07-09-2019, 11:23 AM   #14
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How did the Acronis True Image lose the plot? I've had no problem storing images of Windows 10 but I haven't tried to restore any lately. What's up?
I had one nasty problem with restoring a backup of my Sony Vaio laptop when its SSD suddenly failed completely. I added a new Samsung SSD and tried to do the restore from TWO DIFFERENT Acronis backups and neither would boot. I had to go back to an earlier, non Acronis backup which did work but I lost a lot of work. Never trusted Acronis after that which is is shame because it WAS reliable previously.
I've also found the interface has gotten less intuitive and more cumbersome but that might just be a subjective, personal thing.

Macrium, to me, is what Acronis used to be. It is logical, efficient and reliable.
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Old 07-09-2019, 11:24 AM   #15
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Still using Acronis 2016 across (3) Win10 Pro Desktop PC(s). Was close to Upgrading to 2019 for only $40.
No system failures so not real complaints. Wondering what may be at issue ???
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Old 07-09-2019, 11:26 AM   #16
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Still using Acronis 2016 across (3) Win10 Pro Desktop PC(s). Was close to Upgrading to 2019 for only $40.
No system failures so not real complaints. Wondering what may be at issue ???
I had no issues with earlier versions of Acronis. It WAS my favourite backup tool. After my last experience with it though, I just can't bring myself to rely on it now. I read a number of similar things from other users too regarding more recent versions.

As usual though, YMMV.
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Old 07-09-2019, 11:29 AM   #17
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THX! I was writing as you were posting.

Will checkout Macrium.
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Old 07-09-2019, 11:30 AM   #18
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LOL, I dropped Acronis in the mid-2000s due to incessant spam emails. It was so bad I had to create a server/transport rule to dump them even after unsubscribing. I think that rule still exists and Macrium reflect FTW FWIW.
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Old 07-09-2019, 02:18 PM   #19
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Default Aomie's good

(though I have had a couple of occasions in the past when it ****ed up the restore resulting in doing a fresh install)........ until it comes to dual boot systems, when the only thing I know of is the open source Clonezilla which isn't as straight-forward to start with but once you've got everything sussed works great.


ps +1 for Windows update blocker.

Trouble with Widnows is all the different hardware/drivers it has to be friendly to.
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Old 07-09-2019, 04:26 PM   #20
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again.... AOMIE... just a treat to use... and has restored nicely several times

It will also clone to a new HD if you want, etc. worth all of the few pennies

I tried to get along with Win10 and it's updates bricked two diff PC's for me twice... after all that fun I stayed with Win7 and will as long as possible

I do remote help to a few people who do run 10 and I still say... why the hell did they go and hide or make more difficult to get at so many things that were just easy in 7?

Seems like they don't want 'users' to be alive people, just dumb ass dead ass cash flows... you can tell I don't appreciate the direction M$ has taken...
..but don't even get me started about Crapple
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Old 07-09-2019, 10:46 PM   #21
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My DAW OS has update blocker and is off-line 99.99%. Windows 10 is still v 16-- . and totally stable .this machine is dual boot with W10 1904, which has had whatever tweaks I can think of. Latency monitor still writes it off as unsuitable for audio.

2 quad xeons online have same problems with win 10; both quite happy running linux mint. I just wish I was more computer savvy to switch everything to linux but can't get my head round installing Kontakt and suchlike on it - if anyone knows of a tutorial for that?
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Old 07-10-2019, 12:39 AM   #22
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Quote:
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I'm on Windows 10 64-bit here and use tons of 32-bit plug-ins so I'm not sure what's going on on your end. Have you tried running latencymon to see if there's a process dominating your CPU?
Yep did that (and many other checks too). Latencymon initially indicated the pc was not able to run a real time audio program!

Got past all the problems eventually by tweaking all sorts of settings for the pc and for ASIO4all and for Reaper. So not looking for a solution to the problem, just suggesting an ongoing thread for the topic may be useful to everyone over time.
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Old 07-10-2019, 12:46 AM   #23
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I spend about 4 hours with m/s helpdesk and the issue is now elevated to level 3 (liaison with "research engineers", whatever that means), which I am waiting to hear from.

Try as they might, they cannot get 1809 to install.

Will post if they solve the issue for me.
I had this problem too for months could not do any Win10 updates, and every time you tried the update process would run for ages (multiple times) and then eventually automatically back put the update, which also took ages.

In the end I found a way to apply the 1809 update by doing it via the update service on the MS web site. This works a bit like the major update process when a new version of the o/s is release (e.g. transition from Win8 to Win10).

This forced the update through, but at the same time it wiped out all restore points! So I had no way to retore the pc to its prior state, which I would love to have done given all the headaches the 1809 update created.
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Old 07-12-2019, 04:48 PM   #24
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Nice backup software tips. I had been using Acronis 2015 , but did decide to try others. I think the ladt I used is called EaseUS ....iirc. Not on my workstation atm.

Will check out these other two. Already procured a Windows 10 license for later this year.

Which one to use though. 1904 ?
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Old 07-13-2019, 01:05 AM   #25
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Default missing anything?

yikes.
my machine's tellin me "it needs me to kick off the update which is waiting"

Then I read through this thread.

Made complete system restore on USB with all system files.

Next on list - getting copy of Macrium (advice taken) so I can take (and keep regularly updated)a system image, so I can keep all my programs and files.

Get an external drive to keep sys image on?
OR
can I keep that sys image on the already installed second drive in the Laptop?

then "try" this windows update bs....
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Old 07-13-2019, 02:30 AM   #26
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Keep two backups. Space is cheap.
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Old 07-13-2019, 04:28 AM   #27
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yikes.
my machine's tellin me "it needs me to kick off the update which is waiting"

Then I read through this thread.

Made complete system restore on USB with all system files.

Next on list - getting copy of Macrium (advice taken) so I can take (and keep regularly updated)a system image, so I can keep all my programs and files.

Get an external drive to keep sys image on?
OR
can I keep that sys image on the already installed second drive in the Laptop?

then "try" this windows update bs....
You can keep the image on the second drive but you need to have backups of everything. let's say you have a 250GB first drive and 500gb second Drive. I would store the drive image of the first drive onto the second Drive.

Let's say you use 75 GB on the first drive and by the time it gets compressed by Macrium it might be say 40gb. So you got an extra 40 GB image on your 500gb drive.

Now you buy a 1 terabyte external drive and copy the 500 gigabyte Drive to it. That's how I do backups anyways. I always have everything in at least two places. I use FreeFileSync to do the copy.
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Old 07-15-2019, 06:05 AM   #28
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Keep two backups. Space is cheap.
Absolutely! When I buy backup drives, I buy two at a time and have a mirror of my backups. I verify the backups on each drive individually too.
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Old 07-18-2019, 06:11 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airon View Post
Keep two backups. Space is cheap.
Indeed. Prime day and my back up needs were in sync this year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coachz View Post
You can keep the image on the second drive but you need to have backups of everything. let's say you have a 250GB first drive and 500gb second Drive. I would store the drive image of the first drive onto the second Drive.

Let's say you use 75 GB on the first drive and by the time it gets compressed by Macrium it might be say 40gb. So you got an extra 40 GB image on your 500gb drive.

Now you buy a 1 terabyte external drive and copy the 500 gigabyte Drive to it. That's how I do backups anyways. I always have everything in at least two places. I use FreeFileSync to do the copy.
Already had one ext 2TB and picked up an additional 2TB ext for back up copies of my 2nd drive in laptop. Good to go...

grabbed FreeFileSync, and left a donation too, I always like to support open source community.

made two separate System Images on two separate ext drives just in case.

***Now to copy files with Macrium,
Am I correct that the free version looks like (for now) it would do what I need - all data from the D:/ to an external. in case the update brick my laptop. ( I can't seem to trust MS)
Or, do I really need to purchase a single license?

EDIT: Bought license, awesome program. Does everything I would ever need.

***What do I do about all the programs I have on the C:\ drive? does the system image include all of those so that I don't have to set up everything again? Or is this an additional step in the back up of
C: ---> D:

EDIT: answered my own question, YES. I have all I need to restore from USB, and will have an .iso as soon as I run the errand to get some blank DVD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReaDave View Post
Absolutely! When I buy backup drives, I buy two at a time and have a mirror of my backups. I verify the backups on each drive individually too.
Advice taken...
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Old 08-08-2019, 02:28 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by grsm1 View Post
I have had major issues with my PC as a result of a recent Microsoft update for Windows 10 (update 1809).

Amongst other things, it created problems in running Reaper, to the extent of becoming virtually unusable. So I had to set about solving the problems. Took many hours checking drivers, cleaning up the PC, reinstalling software, making sure all settings were optimised, etc, etc.

In the end I have managed to get things working again, but part of the solution also involved ditching pretty much all 32 bit plugins I had been using and replacing them with 64 bit alternatives. This meant quite a bit of work in active projects, of course. So not real happy about any of this as you can imagine.

The switch to 64 bit plugins was due to the fact that on a 64 bit operating system running a 64 bit version of Reaper, Reaper runs a separate 32 bit version (i.e. ".exe") of itself to be able to process the 32 bit plugins. I noticed that this 32 bit .exe was chewing up a big chunk of CPU capacity (as much as the core 64 bit version of the program). Since the switch across to the almost 100% 64 bit plugins, there is a big improvement in overall usage of the system resources.

Now that was not the only thing that resolved my system problems following the Windows 10 update, and I have seen a few other people in these forums and elsewhere on the Web who have had similar difficulties. Trouble is, there are a variety of sometimes subtly different solutions, even though the problems all sound very much the same.

So I am suggesting that perhaps there should be a single common ongoing thread in the General forum that we can all use to report these Windows 10 update issues and solutions (seems to be a continual problem every time Microsoft release their updates!). I did search for such a thing in the existing discussions, but didn't find it. So if it already exists, I apologise in advance.

Anyone else have any thoughts?
THANK YOU for posting this!

I just got a new Dell Inspiron last week because my good ol' W7 Inspiron running would no longer be supported. Really had no issues running Reaper on that machine. ALL KINDS of problem with the new Dell/W10 (Ver. 1903). First, ran into the weird sloooow distorted playback in Reaper with my Focusright Scarlett 2i4. Read this forum about unplugging the USB cable before launching Reaper as the fix. Now the playback will just get hung up and I have to close restart Reaper. Just tonight I started recording and it just stopped while in the middle of a track. Luckily I could at least save my project, including up to the point where I recorded the track.

Sorry for the uninformed question, but are the plugins that are in the Program(x86) 32-bit programs? Man that would really suck if I had to replace all my Scarlett and Red plugins.
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Old 08-08-2019, 02:30 AM   #31
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I'm on the latest windows 10 here with Reaper 64bit and I can run 32 bit plugins with no problems. Not sure what is the problem on your box.
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Old 08-08-2019, 03:25 AM   #32
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^Same here, no issues with 1903.
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Old 08-08-2019, 03:34 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grsm1 View Post
I have had major issues with my PC as a result of a recent Microsoft update for Windows 10 (update 1809).

Amongst other things, it created problems in running Reaper, to the extent of becoming virtually unusable. So I had to set about solving the problems. Took many hours checking drivers, cleaning up the PC, reinstalling software, making sure all settings were optimised, etc, etc.

In the end I have managed to get things working again, but part of the solution also involved ditching pretty much all 32 bit plugins I had been using and replacing them with 64 bit alternatives. This meant quite a bit of work in active projects, of course. So not real happy about any of this as you can imagine.

The switch to 64 bit plugins was due to the fact that on a 64 bit operating system running a 64 bit version of Reaper, Reaper runs a separate 32 bit version (i.e. ".exe") of itself to be able to process the 32 bit plugins. I noticed that this 32 bit .exe was chewing up a big chunk of CPU capacity (as much as the core 64 bit version of the program). Since the switch across to the almost 100% 64 bit plugins, there is a big improvement in overall usage of the system resources.

Now that was not the only thing that resolved my system problems following the Windows 10 update, and I have seen a few other people in these forums and elsewhere on the Web who have had similar difficulties. Trouble is, there are a variety of sometimes subtly different solutions, even though the problems all sound very much the same.

So I am suggesting that perhaps there should be a single common ongoing thread in the General forum that we can all use to report these Windows 10 update issues and solutions (seems to be a continual problem every time Microsoft release their updates!). I did search for such a thing in the existing discussions, but didn't find it. So if it already exists, I apologise in advance.

Anyone else have any thoughts?
I have that update installed on my 64 bit win 10 pro with no problems.

Are you using older hardware for your windows system?
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Old 08-08-2019, 04:38 AM   #34
Geoff-h3o
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"Sorry for the uninformed question, but are the plugins that are in the Program(x86) 32-bit programs? Man that would really suck if I had to replace all my Scarlett and Red plugins."

Yes - but as others have said you should be able to run them ok
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