Old 12-08-2018, 05:28 PM   #41
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Yes yes: On a SHARING site you need to share the content. Everybody understands
that. But the other side of the medal is that with this "sharing agreements"
you inevitably hand over rights to exploit your content. Everybody should be
aware of this fact. A fact that you tend to deny (sorry to say that).
Nothing is being "handed over". I'm not denying it, I'm telling you that for FB to allow sharing with each other, using FBs code and servers, they have to include a like-worded agreement to allow that to happen even without FB personally using the info - because, it technically IS FB if it is being shared on their servers/network by users you want to share.

Quote:
Ooops, isn't that obvious?
If we talk about "facebook + copyrights" then "nearly all rights" are all
rights regarding the utilization of all content you post on facebook.
You don't transfer the copyrights to facebook, but you transfer "nearly
all rights" of utilization.
You did not transfer a single right because transfer means you don't have them after the transfer, you gave a right to share.

And no it isn't obvious. If you needed to prove this in any formal fashion, you must explain the explicit rights lost, one by one instead of generalized terms like you are using. It is the only thing that actually matters. Otherwise, it's just assumption and assumption carries zero weight.

Beyond all that I'm still waiting for the horrible thing that's going to happen and just how FB is going to make money off of your music, sell your music, prevent you from doing what you've always done with it etc. Details, not assumptions please.
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Old 12-08-2018, 11:39 PM   #42
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Great to have these comments.Really getting into areas I need to know about. GoDaddy was one in particular that I've heard of but seemed to have the impression keeping a domain name if switching might not be assured. I always hear ads for Squarespace on NPR but read of problems some people were having in selling their CD's. I haven't tried anything besides Facebook. As I said before, some of the people that like us definitely do not have Facebook pages. Also I wonder if places that I may be trying to get booked in will take me seriously without my own website? Thanks!
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Old 12-16-2018, 11:50 AM   #43
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GoDaddy is perhaps the prime "stay away" example. There have been several instances of people losing their registration to... Godaddy. After which, Godaddy sold the domain to a competitor of the original owner.

Just do a search for Godaddy and scam...

One host that used to be good and US based, is Bluehost:
https://www.bluehost.com/

But, honestly, I haven't used them in years.

In Europe, one of the biggest and cheapest that is reliable, is OVH. They're French, but also available in English:
https://www.ovh.co.uk/
Their products range from free to professional. Support is good. And they're big enough to have server farms all over the world.

Another very big and cheap one is one.com. They are reliable, but their support is sometimes not that great and they oversell a lot. If you're lucky, your 1$ a month account will be reasonably fast. If not, you might be on the same server/ip as some adult content hosts and that will hurt your ranking and speed.

If you're dead serious, your own dedicated server will set you back around 50 €/month. Far more storage, but far more work. Could provide room for 100-500 sites.

And then there's the cloud. On the same level of expertise as your own dedicated server. Is being sold as extremely reliable, but all the big ones have been down for hours lately. Except IBM, but they are expensive and not available unless you're a business.

Besides, being down for a couple of days doesn't hurt your Google ranking.
Great info here (as well as others commenting). I had read that about Go Daddy and was hoping to get reliable host recommendations. I don't mind paying something but hopefully not too much.
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Old 12-16-2018, 11:57 AM   #44
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Don't use the cheapest one. Try to find a reliable one. These usually cost a tiny bit more. A reliable one will register the domain name with you as registrant. Some cheap ones register your domain under their own name. That will cost you dearly when you decide to transfer, give away, or sell your domain. Cheap ones are around 10$ a year for a .com. Reliable ones are about double that.



A free host is nice to play around with. It will hurt your Google ranking. An affordable reliable one is hard to find, because there are so many out there. Ask around. Also, support is important if you're wetting your feet. The free ones only have paying support, or no support at all.



You really don't want to write your own HTML etc. There's plenty of CMS packages around. Even Wordpress can be pretty good now they have auto updates, if you stay away from some plugins. Ask your host. They'll usually have a shortlist of CMS packages they support and these days, a serious host will have an auto install for these. That gets you up and running in an hour or so.



I'd like to see your pages...

I run several sites of my own. The oldest one is nearly 20 years in existence, has about 50.000 visitors monthly and is about food. Sorry, only in Dutch and link only via pm. It started as a research project into search engines. That's why I don't want to post a link here. Would disturb my measurements, as this forum is very big. Another one is over ten years old and about audio, but also only in Dutch. Besides those, I manage a few dozens of company sites.

It's not impossible to score well with a personal site without social media. But it takes patience and a lot of hard work. You need lots of text, as Google can't index pictures, music, or video.

If you don't want to invest in hard work, a FB page would be better. You can always put links on there to your music on a reliable host that doesn't steal your content. But even a FB page requires work. You need to keep it alive and that requires regular "news". It also requires you to search FB for people with similar interests.
Thanks for your input. My plans are to keep the Band Facebook page I have (which is super basic...just listing upcoming gigs) and lately I tend to have large blocks of doing other things outside music (but plan on becoming much more active) and so nothing goes on the FB page except people occasionally writing in. So I'd keep the FB page and start my own for people who can't or don't want to interact with Facebook.
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Old 12-17-2018, 03:31 AM   #45
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Sounds like a good plan!
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Old 12-18-2018, 10:43 PM   #46
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I use GoDaddy to host and as a registrar. I have been happy with them.

Finding a name is not always easy. You will be shocked at which is taken, and usually not used.

I handcode HTML. It's not programming and fairly easy to use.

A modern web site must be responsive -- meaning it renders on a desktop and a cell phone / tablet. Mine are not, but I'm working on it.
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Old 12-20-2018, 04:57 AM   #47
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Hello,

I'm looking at YouTube at the moment. I wouldn't consider a website - social media (Facebook, Instagram) seems the best way engage at the moment.

Currently I'm sticking things on SoundCloud but getting people to listen to it is not easy, but I can make all my mistakes.

FWIW My own listening habits are if I want something new I use YouTube and follow the suggestions so I thinks that what I'm going to use.

Good Luck!
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Old 12-20-2018, 10:50 AM   #48
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I use GoDaddy to host and as a registrar. I have been happy with them.

Finding a name is not always easy. You will be shocked at which is taken, and usually not used.

I handcode HTML. It's not programming and fairly easy to use.

A modern web site must be responsive -- meaning it renders on a desktop and a cell phone / tablet. Mine are not, but I'm working on it.
Anyone can write a little HTML. Writing GOOD HTML is a whole other thing. And writing responsive HTML another level or two removed. At that point it really IS a form of programming.

As for Fakebook, one needs only to look at yesterdays news to know you don't want your proprietary creative product anywhere near them. Use social media to DRIVE listeners to your website. Never use Facebook in lieu of. That's what I would consider my fairly informed opinion.

I've coded a few websites in my day. The last one I did for music was coded entirely in javascript. I did that as an exercise in programming. But it doesn't play well with Google or on all mobile devices for that matter.

As for Soundcloud, while I still have an account there I found many features totally worthless. The fact that you can't control the order of submissions after the fact made it kind of useless for me.

If you can find a host that provides/allows proper streaming of your content then that's the way to go. Coding for it is another matter. HTML5 is making things a little easier tho.
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Old 02-11-2019, 09:31 PM   #49
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Anyone can write a little HTML. Writing GOOD HTML is a whole other thing. And writing responsive HTML another level or two removed. At that point it really IS a form of programming.

As for Fakebook, one needs only to look at yesterdays news to know you don't want your proprietary creative product anywhere near them. Use social media to DRIVE listeners to your website. Never use Facebook in lieu of. That's what I would consider my fairly informed opinion.

I've coded a few websites in my day. The last one I did for music was coded entirely in javascript. I did that as an exercise in programming. But it doesn't play well with Google or on all mobile devices for that matter.

As for Soundcloud, while I still have an account there I found many features totally worthless. The fact that you can't control the order of submissions after the fact made it kind of useless for me.

If you can find a host that provides/allows proper streaming of your content then that's the way to go. Coding for it is another matter. HTML5 is making things a little easier tho.
Seems like some good points. I definitely wouldn't be up to coding (whatever that even is!). That shows my web building skills! I take your point on getting too far into giving Facebook control of creative content. Thanks
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Old 07-19-2019, 03:00 AM   #50
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I'd recommend Instagram for starters, you can post videos, gigs dates, everything you've listed. Ofc, you'll need to gain followers first, but it's easier to do on Instagram than to promote your site. There are a lot of tricks and tips on the internet. For example, this article about the social media posting schedule [url=https://stupidlinkspambot.spam[/url] and so on.
Good to know. Thanks and again to the others on this post. For me it's a good and still relevant discussion.

Last edited by Ollie; 07-22-2019 at 01:06 AM. Reason: removed quoted spam link
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Old 07-19-2019, 04:41 PM   #51
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there is no need for a music service to share music. there USED to be a reason and it was this: because playing music was really technically difficult, it required flash plugin, or a lot of complex alternatives.

HTML5 rendered music service webs obsolete because HTML5 language includes by default, a way to play audio files in any browser without any complex coding. now including music files on a web page is as simple as including images (photos etc) on a web page.

this is a very important point so i will reiterate. the entire existence of myspace, bandmix, etc, was to facilitate playing music in a web browser. then the sharing aspect is the frosting on top. and it is no longer necessary, because HTML5 exists now.

all you need to make a band web site is one thing. ok 2 things.

1. reaper, to make audio files like mp3's
2. an editor which allows you to type HTML5 tags then upload the web file to your host site

that is all. you can go to my web site which is the same as my user name to see an example. its not fancy or anything. but the audio files are there and you can click to play them as desired. a few images are there. some youtube videos are included too. (better yet don't go to my site because my recordings and playing is horrible)

the code will look no more complex than something like this, where i replaced the brackets with different squiggles in order to post it:

{html} {body}
Hello! {p} Welcome to {b}The Rotten Crue{/b} fan club, we have a new album named {b}Truckers On Acid{/b} to be released in September! {p} Listen to our first track below! {p} {audio source="Truckers.And.Babes.On.Long.Hauls.mp3"}
{p}Support us by buying our new CD! {a href='link to paypal product'} Use Paypal {/a}
{p} This is the best way to support our music because we get the funds directly from our fans like you!
{/body}



there it is, literally it is that simple.

check out the following link to learn more about the AUDIO tag, which makes it all possible.

https://www.w3schools.com/tags/tag_audio.asp


adding video on the page is just as simple, just simple cut & paste, not like it used to be many years ago where you needed to have a Ph. D in computers to add video to a page.


My reasons for posting this are simple. I dont like those band service sites. They are unfair, they rip off the artists, they charge too much, and sometimes they steal the intellectual property from the musicians. Dont use 'em. Do it yourself.


The only major drawback to not using one of those sites, is that a site you make won't have the "sharing" stuff. But because everyone uses other sites for that (which I wont name) or twitter etc to advertise themselves, there is also no need for a web-service to do it for you. after all who really finds a new band by browsing or searching around on bandmix or bandcamp directly, not many. everyone comes to a band through the other social sites, which means it can point to your own web site.

Last edited by superblonde.org; 07-19-2019 at 04:42 PM. Reason: meh
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Old 07-19-2019, 11:56 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Tooth_Fairy View Post
I'd recommend Instagram for starters, you can post videos, gigs dates, everything you've listed. Ofc, you'll need to gain followers first, but it's easier to do on Instagram than to promote your site. There are a lot of tricks and tips on the internet ...
I wouldn't recommend Instragram.

Instragram belongs to Facebook (like many other companies: WhatsApp,
Facebook Messenger, ...) - and Facebook is a data kraken (but that is
a topic on its own).

My reasons for creating your own html-website:

1. You don't give away any rights. You don't even have to
bother about rights.

2. You have full control about your presentation: The look,
the feel, additional info, colours ... everything.

3. A simple good looking site is as easy as a Facebook site or
an Instragram site. You only need a handful of html-commands -
and there you are, look above at the post of "superblonde".

4. You have the chance to learn and update your site. That means
you can have an evolutionary sequence of your music- or band-
representation. That can be big fun.

5. If you have your own site, you will have done the first
step to a professional presentation of yourself.

Keep in mind that ...

... the look & feel of your song presentation says a lot about you
and about how serious and earnest you are with your music: A
facebook- or instagram-presentation is the poorest and most
miserable way. On the other hand your own website is a more
individual and creative way - and it is the way to go for a
real artist.
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Old 07-20-2019, 01:16 AM   #53
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@superblond & @enroe
Thanks for your insightful info !
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Old 07-21-2019, 03:07 PM   #54
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I wouldn't recommend Instragram.

Instragram belongs to Facebook (like many other companies: WhatsApp,
Facebook Messenger, ...) - and Facebook is a data kraken (but that is
a topic on its own).

My reasons for creating your own html-website:

1. You don't give away any rights. You don't even have to
bother about rights.

2. You have full control about your presentation: The look,
the feel, additional info, colours ... everything.

3. A simple good looking site is as easy as a Facebook site or
an Instragram site. You only need a handful of html-commands -
and there you are, look above at the post of "superblonde".

4. You have the chance to learn and update your site. That means
you can have an evolutionary sequence of your music- or band-
representation. That can be big fun.

5. If you have your own site, you will have done the first
step to a professional presentation of yourself.

Keep in mind that ...

... the look & feel of your song presentation says a lot about you
and about how serious and earnest you are with your music: A
facebook- or instagram-presentation is the poorest and most
miserable way. On the other hand your own website is a more
individual and creative way - and it is the way to go for a
real artist.

So, how to get people to go to your website, use social media? Social media ads?
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Old 07-21-2019, 04:30 PM   #55
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i dont know how to get people to a site, wish I did, but i also deleted my instagram (only had it for about a year) due to their zuckerberg connection and i will never, ever make or use 'fakebook'. i believe zuckerberg is an evil snake, metaphorically, perhaps literally not sure, and he should have been held accountable for many evil actions over many years, but he has not been so far. that is a totally different convo but just wanted to agree that i also avoid zuckerberg companies. bad, bad, bad. plus look at the demographics of fakebook these days- commonly said to be moms & dads & grandparents, not the young-music-buying-crowd.

twitter is kind of dumb but at least it is not run by an evil snakelike greed monster bent on theft of every kind.

services like pledgemusic are literally running illegal scams- too much to write about that, just google pledgemusic lawsuit. beware..

probably the way to go right now is to get music on youtube, and on a streaming service (which are evil too, in terms of royalty payout, like pandora, spotify). and from there, assume people will use a web search on the band name, or click the band link while listening to the song. local musicians are still publishing their stuff on cdbaby, and gaining new buyers.

personally I really, really enjoy when I see a band live and they have a e-mailing list, which I can put my email down and then get on their list. once people are on the email list, then they can be referred to the site. once they're on the site..then...the world opens up. this is often called: "The Platform Strategy", or many other marketing names.

Which incidentally: one of the huge benefits of having your own website is that you can get your _own_ email address and your _own_ email list, where you can keep the email addresses of fans. no other "helpful service" will allow you to get the email addresses of the social users, even if you're paying fees for the service.

I saw some recent (non-music) business marketing stat that said only like 2% of paying customers come from social media, in comparison to other places. so it might just 'seem' like social gets exposure, but if it doesn't translate, then what good is all that wasted time? just because people click a thumbs-up button, are they really caring enough to buy & support your art?

at a local writers conference with book authors and agents on a panel, they were asked a question about marketing, & they each responded that they had tried instagram etc in the past years, but soon realized that the instagram "influencers" were actually only increasing traffic to themselves and the other influencers, kind of like a circle jerk, instead of increasing traffic to the author's sites. so they said: social media could be a totally wasted effort.

it is simply really hard to get listeners' ears.

what i have seen in los angeles is that bands will sign with a promotion agency ($$$). and those agencies have all kinds of ways to get the word out. like, to local events, streaming podcast shows, all kinds of different media.


but anyways, all this does definitely rely on having your own web site.
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Old 07-21-2019, 04:40 PM   #56
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one other thing about a band web site, I love love love when bands post their gig schedule and it is ACCURATE. there are a couple musicians locally (they've won county singer songwriter awards, on that level, they're pro, but not "huge") and I keep their sites bookmarked, so when I have a free weekend coming up or a date nite, I go to their page and check their gig schedule. It is definitely the feature I look for most often on a band site. sometimes a club's online calendar will include a band's link, too. and also the other 'event sites' like Eventbrite, etc, make sure to list your events there, which all link back to the band website.

in comparison, when i find a fakebook site of a band, 99% of the time the gig schedule is completely out of date..

I've followed a couple local artists for many years, call me a dedicated fan, simply by going to their web site and checking their gig schedule, directly from them. (Not from a club's calendar which is often wrong, grrr)


i guess I could mention, of these local artists..

.. one of them mentioned to me "yeah I cant update my site right now.. i'm kind of being held ransom by the admin guy I hired, he's asking all this money, wont give me the access, cause he owns it" ... Watch out for that scam, seriously beware.. if you hire someone for a bit of work, get any passwords before paying!

.. two of them use Wix

.. one has a partner artist (close friend) do the site for them, wow their site looks awesome with custom graphic design
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Old 07-21-2019, 10:20 PM   #57
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So, how to get people to go to your website, use social media? Social media ads?
Hahaa, that is the QUESTION!

First: Read the posts of "superblonde" - he has experience.

There are so many ways to get people to go to your website -
but you have to be creative.

If you have your own website you can create small dummy
facebook-, instagram-, pandora-accounts where you present
a link to your website.

But - as "superblonde" explains - those accounts are likely to
become a waste of time. They create articial traffic by single
button-likes and traffic circles - a kind of self-deception.

What you can do: Post a link to your website everywhere you
can. Print visitcards with a link to your website. Gather
e-mail-addresses. Be present at local clubs and events. Spread
a link to your website there, launch an article at your local press
and in local websites of your town etc etc ...

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Old 07-22-2019, 06:54 AM   #58
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I've built websites and web applications (as hobby and professionally) since 2001 (though I don't do it much professionally any longer). I no longer suggest this as the best path for anyone not familiar as their primary presence from a musician/band standpoint. No matter how easy it seems, it's not going to be for everyone, including many musicians - thusly it cannot be the default choice. Not to mention, without design experience it's not going to be very presentable without help from others and presentation matters - as evidenced by websites I see that try to do this without that experience.

Secondly, they'll never get traffic comparable to having a presence on other sites that specialize in the social aspect. Those have their problems, I can't/won't address those but whether it be soundcloud, FB or YT it's much easier to get visibility than a lonely website all by itself where you spend all your time trying to get people there. You can use social media to get them there but if you do that, you might as well make that your main presence and use the website as secondary.

It was a better idea 15 years ago, not so much now. I'm not arguing against having a website at all but rather as a primary presence for someone without experience - unless they are a bit geeky, it will lead to frustration, they will need help (probably lots of it) to do this by themselves and have any chance of being visible comparatively.
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Old 07-22-2019, 07:10 AM   #59
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I've built websites and web applications (as hobby and professionally) since 2001 (though I don't do it much professionally any longer). I no longer suggest this as the best path for anyone not familiar as their primary presence from a musician/band standpoint. No matter how easy it seems, it's not going to be for everyone, including many musicians - thusly it cannot be the default choice. Not to mention, without design experience it's not going to be very presentable without help from others and presentation matters - as evidenced by websites I see that try to do this without that experience.

Secondly, they'll never get traffic comparable to having a presence on other sites that specialize in the social aspect. Those have their problems, I can't/won't address those but whether it be soundcloud, FB or YT it's much easier to get visibility than a lonely website all by itself where you spend all your time trying to get people there. You can use social media to get them there but if you do that, you might as well make that your main presence and use the website as secondary.

It was a better idea 15 years ago, not so much now. I'm not arguing against having a website at all but rather as a primary presence for someone without experience - unless they are a bit geeky, it will lead to frustration, they will need help (probably lots of it) to do this by themselves and have any chance of being visible comparatively.

My opinion is the same. Times have changed. Internet makes things change, fast. Mostly, I think it's just an 'anywhere' and 'everywhere' game now.
People are hanging out on the internet, a lot. So be seen, I guess.
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Old 07-22-2019, 07:33 AM   #60
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I miss when websites were a thing, there's something temporary about those generic social media profiles, even if they store all the old data it quickly goes out of sight like change between your sofa cushions. That static-ness and often being a gallery of old stuff is a nice feature of an estabilished topical website, much more pleasant do dig in those than just scroll into an infinitely loading facebook panel.
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Old 07-22-2019, 07:45 AM   #61
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That's what I mean by secondary presence.

I'm NOT an FB fan, I almost avoid it like the plague - but my bands have pages there because it is so easy to manage/notify thousands of people (between all of us), including managing events/gigs/notifications for all those fans/users - it's a bit of a necessary evil because that's were the fans are - I can always send them to a real site from there once they are there.

If you build your own site, where you going to place all the music, the music player, the videos, how are you going to build a functional calendar and eventing system and so on. All of this can be done ad-hoc and by hand but that becomes extremely tedious quickly if you grow beyond the garage or bedroom. The next best thing is using a CMS but it needs to have a feature set that is good enough for musicians aka music, calendars et al but you still need to get the fans there.

I've ran my own sites from my own server (in the other room) for almost 20 years now. I've mostly stopped serving public sites there because after all this time, my home now receives thousands and thousands of unnecessary connections due to outdated content and old internet links. It got kind of ridiculous but finally calmed down after I changed DNS for all the sites I could change.

I'm not against having one's own site, but I find it not necessarily the best advice to tell any/all musicians they can just build their own site from scratch and ditch other outlets. That's the main point I was trying to get across. Additionally, there are about 3.2 billion people on the internet so we are effectively competing for any tiny sliver of their attention we can get, with that many people online, those are terrible odds and ignoring the places where the majority of them hangout is likely self-limiting.
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Old 07-22-2019, 08:42 AM   #62
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I've had my music up on SoundClick for 22 years, which dates all the way back to when they first went live in 1997. They have lots of gadgets for promoting and selling your music, as well as stuff like band event calendars, news feeds, linking up with other social media sites, plus charts and statistics, but I only use SoundClick for the free place to park my music so other people can download or stream it for free.
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Glennbo
Hear My Music - Click Me!!!
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