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Old 02-08-2010, 01:43 AM   #1
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Default Universal/Global Shortcuts/Actions [WISH GRANTED]

What:
Action shortcuts should always do what we assign them to do UNLESS we manually assign them different functions per window/action section.

This is a request for the ability to assign keyboard actions globally by default in addition to separately for each section of Reaper (main, midi editor etc).


How:
This could be implemented by giving the option when to add the shortcut as pass-through in all other windows or only for current window. However most offending windows don't have their own Actions section atm, which Reaper could also solve by optionally cloning the action shortcut to all possible sections.

Windows opening with an active search field (e.g. Actions Window) could be made to optionally not open with the search field active (to enable keyboard toggling of such windows)


Why:

There are parts of Reaper that do not allow assigning custom actions (e.g. the Fx Chain, floating plugin windows etc). So whenever they have focus, many key commands will not work as expected.

Another aspect of this problem is that with all windows responding differently to shortcuts, there is no way to toggle them all at once, which is pretty necessary for working with many floating windows. I often have to hit esc many times to clear them all and then they must be brought back one by one. This problem also ensures that all the (would-be-helpful) actions to toggle or close all floating window will never work correctly.


How to Help:
Please list any other windows which steal keyboard focus and
Vote: http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=2230

Last edited by foxAsteria; 06-18-2019 at 10:16 AM. Reason: clarity
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Old 02-08-2010, 03:40 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PooFox View Post
my "y" command to bring up the prefs doesnt work unless i close the editor; apparently this is because there is no option in the midi editor action list for opening the prefs.
There is an action "Misc: pass through key to main window", where you
put all the commands that you want to work as defined in Main section.
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Old 02-08-2010, 04:24 AM   #3
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If it wasn't for the separate sections, you couldn't use the same key for different actions in different views.

Example: My numpad 4 and 6 select the next/previous item in main view. In MIDI prv view they step to the next/previous note.
If there weren't separate sections, I couldn't use 4 and 6 in the MIDI editor, as they would still do their main view job.

You'd need huge amounts of qwerty keys...

Still, I am with you there should be more connections possible between the sections. I'd love a "hand over key to current open MIDI editor" equivalent to the 'Pass-through key to main window', but as there can be several MIDI editors open this is bound to be problematic.. And for situations like scroll and zoom, you have to set them up for each sections, which is tedious. Though, it's a set and forget thing.
I think the advantages are bigger than the disadvantages.
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Old 02-08-2010, 04:39 AM   #4
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Oh, my bad...
At first I thought that the thread is about an Uniform Keyboard support.

Nevermind...
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Old 02-08-2010, 03:29 PM   #5
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ok youre both right, however, things could be so much simpler, and surface simplicity is largely what makes a program seem "intuitive." we can keep the separate sections, but there should be an automatic coupling of commands that havent been separately defined. this would have saved me personally hours of confusion.

i shouldnt have to tell the program to "pass key to main window." if i dont like that behavior or i want it to do something different, then i can change it. but for something that cant even be mapped in midi editor (like prefs) there is no good reason for that not to be automatically mapped through. we definitely need some better default behaviour, or at least an option to sync all key commands automatically. things like this really make me wish i had programming skills so i could work on these things myself...

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Old 02-08-2010, 05:02 PM   #6
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actually i just remembered something that would provide a simple and effective solution. This works well in mediamonkey so why not here?

I propose Reaper simply provide a "Application Global" checkbox in the action list to cause the key command to perform the same function no matter what window is active or has focus at the moment we define it.

This also fixes the problem of my prefs not opening with "y" if a plug-in window is in the foreground as well as my not being able to toggle the active track up or down with my arrow keys. There is no where to define actions in that case anyway.

We could go one step futher and add a "System Global Shortcut" option so that even if Reaper is minimized, our transport commands remain useful. This would have an additional advantage of making our qwerty keyboards as useful as a dedicated transport control and potentially free us from the mouse during tracking.

I believe these additions would create minimal impact on existing workflow, and greatly expand it for everyone.
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Old 02-24-2010, 05:42 PM   #7
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man i hate when what seems like perfect logic to me is superfluous to others...damn i hate that!!
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Old 02-24-2010, 06:12 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PooFox View Post

I propose Reaper simply provide a "Application Global" checkbox in the action list to cause the key command to perform the same function no matter what window is active or has focus at the moment we define it.
...
We could go one step futher and add a "System Global Shortcut" option so that even if Reaper is minimized, our transport commands remain useful...
I like these a lot. I'd have quite a few candidates where Application global would be checked.
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Old 02-26-2010, 07:21 PM   #9
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Default VOTE?

so can we get a poll going on this or something? i keep looking at all the added features and fixes for the new reaper versions, but i still havent seen anything implemented based on what people are asking for on here. how does this process work and who is deciding with what criteria which requests get implemented? sorry for my impatience, but a program where it was obvious the developers did all they could to adapt an app to the declared needs of the users would be something indeed.

not saying this isnt the case, just saying it hasnt evidenced itself to me yet.
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Old 02-26-2010, 07:39 PM   #10
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You put a clear and defined feature request in the issue tracker, then link this thread to it so people can vote. Make sure that you put a link back to this thread though, so people can discuss in this thread rather than in the tracker

does that make sense?
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Old 02-26-2010, 07:53 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shakey.oberon View Post
You put a clear and defined feature request in the issue tracker, then link this thread to it so people can vote. Make sure that you put a link back to this thread though, so people can discuss in this thread rather than in the tracker

does that make sense?
yea thanks ill try that. but really i was more or less idly musing on whether or not this would have any meaningful possibility of reaching fruition...
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Old 03-15-2010, 03:11 AM   #12
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Misc: pass through key to main window

theres NO actions searchable as 'misc' at all, i cant find this action above at all.
\
i just want record button to be * key, but it doesent act if the main window doesent have focus...
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Old 03-15-2010, 04:12 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evanrabby View Post
Misc: pass through key to main window

theres NO actions searchable as 'misc' at all, i cant find this action above at all.
\
i just want record button to be * key, but it doesent act if the main window doesent have focus...
It won't work on plug-in windows anyway, if you have a MIDI
Editor in focus than putting * in that action under MIDI
Editor section should do it.

You might not have found this action if you were searching
in Main section. Choose the section on the top right drop
down menu in Actions pop-up window.
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Old 03-15-2010, 05:26 AM   #14
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We need the firmness of standardization before the flexibility of customization. When everybody sets up their own shortcuts differently, it becomes much harder to help others. So we should ideally start from a universal set that is as broad as possible, and only deviate when we need to. This is nothing new of course, it seems to be the general idea throughout; but sometimes its importance tends to get a bit overlooked imho when "just set up a custom action so and so" solutions are suggested (which are totally legit and helpful, of course).
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Old 03-15-2010, 05:54 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Banned View Post
We need the firmness of standardization before the flexibility of customization. When everybody sets up their own shortcuts differently, it becomes much harder to help others....
That is not the case when the helping person doesn't refer to a shortcut key but names the action it triggers (if possible with the exact wording, so it can be searched via filter). The person being helped can easily look it up in the list and sees whether there is a shortcut assigned and which. I for sure won't stop using my own preferred shortcut system and tweak it to my liking.

In the case at hand, it would have been nice if whatever is the default for 'Record: Start' in main view was assigned to 'Pass through key to main window' in the MIDI sections per default. Even nicer if 'Record: Start' just was an action available in the MIDI editor itself (complete with "Application global" option ). But well, that's the way it is. The good thing is that we can achieve our aim nevertheless.
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Old 03-21-2010, 09:45 PM   #16
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Didn't know about the MISC group. That would've saved me a lot of keystrokes working with Melodyne the other night. I'll check that out.
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Old 03-23-2010, 05:20 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Banned View Post
We need the firmness of standardization before the flexibility of customization. When everybody sets up their own shortcuts differently, it becomes much harder to help others. So we should ideally start from a universal set that is as broad as possible, and only deviate when we need to. This is nothing new of course, it seems to be the general idea throughout; but sometimes its importance tends to get a bit overlooked imho when "just set up a custom action so and so" solutions are suggested (which are totally legit and helpful, of course).
I STRONGLY DISAGREE~!!!! there can be no standardization and should be no standardization of workflow when everyone is trying to accomplish something different. high levels of customize-ability encourage unique approaches. standardized tools lend themselves to tried and try approaches. only a feeble minded fundamentalist who cant understand the value of change would suggest that people should all think about music the same (hopefully thats NOT what youre suggesting!). if you want to help someone, dont rely on shortcuts to explain. yes having too many shortcuts can get confusing, but thats no reason not to have them!!
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Old 03-23-2010, 02:55 PM   #18
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ok ive made a "proper" feature request for this:
http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=2230
now how do i put a vote on it?
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Old 03-24-2010, 04:39 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PooFox View Post
[...] only a feeble minded fundamentalist who cant understand the value of change would suggest that people should all think about music the same (hopefully thats NOT what youre suggesting!) [...]
No, not at all. :-) My view is much more nuanced, I agree with what you say too - although I occasionally do wear my facial hair in a fundamentalist fist-full-and-then-some fashion.
I'm not trying to argue against any kind of customization; I'm just saying that I prefer customizations to be deviations from pre-existing standards (which should be as flexible and open as possible). For pretty much every given desired feature or workflow, one could answer "you can roll it yourself". Economies of scale also matter though, which is why e.g. Cockos can build one product that more or less suits us all in the first place.
Quote:
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That is not the case when the helping person doesn't refer to a shortcut key but names the action it triggers [...].
Gofer, you're absolutely right there. But imho it's a matter of degree. I'd guess that when I would change the location of every item in Reaper's menu bars, you wouldn't just say "Oh, no problem. The words are still there and they're exactly the same as before".
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Old 03-24-2010, 08:01 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Banned View Post
For pretty much every given desired feature or workflow, one could answer "you can roll it yourself". Economies of scale also matter though, which is why e.g. Cockos can build one product that more or less suits us all in the first place.
haha, glad you didnt take offense, i didnt intend any. the level of customization here is what made me drop cubase, ableton and samplitude as my main daw choices. samplitude cusomization is excellent but their handling the play and edit cursors drove me away. ive been trying for a couple years to achieve the level of workflow got with reaper in a couple weeks. i agree there should be some kind of standard when it comes to default shortcut layouts (ctrl+e to split? wtf??) but i have a very "fps" workflow so i need custom shortcuts under my left hand and hardly have to look at the keyboard. even though ableton is super slick and powerful, for a "live tool" to force you to memorize its highly arbitrary shortcut system to me is simply unforgivable. plus mousewheel zooming/scrolling is something you can never give up once youve had it. at least for me..
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Old 05-03-2010, 06:08 PM   #21
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Recent convert to Reaper, understand there is not a standardized set of actions/shortcuts past a certain point at this time per this thread, but wondering if there is a custom set that many people are using for some of the more established actions? I am running into actions I would like to set shortcuts for, but not sure I want to reinvent the wheel if its already out there. I am imagining that everybody needs different things from the program thus customized action shortcuts, but wondering if there is any sort of semi-standardized set at this point that people have put together and traded around?
thanks!
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Old 06-12-2010, 02:29 AM   #22
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i guess all i can do is occasinally bump this feature request? to me its most critical:
http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=2230

heres a really important reason why this has become my number one feature request: if im editing a plugin, i have to click in the main window to use the panic button (all midi notes off)!!! if i get a stuck note i have to scramble to the mouse to stop it, making the shortcut key moot at this point.

this severely limits live usage of reaper. not to mention the possibility to use a standard wireless keyboard as a remote control, since transport controls dont have any effect if a plugin window is active. if we at least could have an editable action list for the fx editor window like we do for most others there would be a workaround to many assigned shortcuts not working here until we click the main window. other keys not working are play/stop, metronome, mute/solo..to many to list. but when editing effects, it quickly becomes cumbersome to execute simple commands via shortcut when we have to keep clicking the project window. ive set these keys and others to pass through to main editor whilst in the midi editor, but the fx editor has a mind all of its own. also, the "toggle effects window" shortcut becomes useless as well if youve clicked on it. there seems to be an action list here, but we dont have access to it. finally. id really much rather my usual up/down actions to change track when fx window is open rather than switching active effect. furthermore, although the action list contains fx parameter changes while in the fx window, UNDO has no effect while the fx window is focused...

anybody else with me on this? i think this needs to change asap. its by far the most glaring obstacle to my workflow.

some shortcut keys have been hardwired to pass recently it seems, though i cant recall which. can we please have a way to define these ourselves, devs??


please see the feature request linked at top if youd like to help get this fixed.
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Old 02-18-2011, 03:00 PM   #23
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gotta bump it...
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Old 03-14-2011, 04:07 AM   #24
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ok, so 2.5k views on this thread vs 11 votes. somebody please tell me if my request is unclear because i can't seem to accept the idea that this wouldn't improve the feck out of reaper's customization scheme...
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Old 07-08-2011, 01:11 AM   #25
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Default transfer from tracker IID #2230

transfer from tracker IID #2230

Quote:
Originally Posted by bombthepeer
Global Actions!
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Old 07-08-2011, 06:18 AM   #26
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I found out that only shortcuts I can rely on are the ones coming from my MIDI keyboard, which ain't much, I agree.
I almost gave up on using any keys on my qwerty keyboard in Reaper, except for naming/renaming tracks.

Here's my vote...
Cheers!
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Old 07-08-2011, 03:43 PM   #27
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one action that sometimes helps get around this problem in macros is "focus main window." i used this for instance in my open fx chain shortcut. used it last to keep it from stealing focus when it opens so the action can still work like a toggle until i actually do something in that window.

i tried using it at the beginning but it doesn't seem to have any effect while that window has focus.
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Old 11-09-2011, 07:19 AM   #28
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Found a solution for this using AutoHotkey, a free keyboard macro program.

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=91036

It works very well, but people should still vote for the feature request as this really ought to be included in Reaper.
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Old 08-21-2012, 03:15 PM   #29
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bumpety bump bump
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Old 05-03-2014, 11:49 AM   #30
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bumping my head against a wall. autohotkey is not the most ideal solution.
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Old 07-29-2014, 01:28 PM   #31
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Uncustomizable windows stealing keyboard focus all the time sucks dead, rotten llama dicks!!
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Old 08-27-2014, 07:00 AM   #32
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Totally agreed, key focus (and consequently controller focus) are top priority in a DAW.
It's too early for me to comment on Reaper specifics, but the sad trainwreck Steinberg made of C7 regarding window focus is one of the main reasons forcing me to consider a switch (to Reaper, probably) - not an easy decision when you've spent a decade building your workflow around a certain host (and it used to be a fantastic one).

The upside is, Reaper sweetens the deal with some killer features I've been missing in Cubase for years, at the expense of some other pet features I will miss (grrrr).
Focus will be one of the deciding factors in the end, I'm willing to put in considerable learning and customization with onboard tools, but will not go to AutoHotkey or other external bandaids (no disrespect, AHK is extremely cool per se).

ymmv,
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Old 08-27-2014, 03:19 PM   #33
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I have voted. BUT: focus is a good thing and you shouldn't oversimplify the solution. E.g. when I'm in a list box control (FX list, Region manager, etc.) I want Ctrl-space to select/deselect current list item because it's the STANDARD behavior that you expect to work in all Windows applications. Likewise, Del key should delete symbols to the right of cursor in all text input fields (doesn't work in Track or Region manager, I have an FR for this). In many well designed applications I've used you can focus your way out of an 'inconvenient' window with Ctrl-F6. I wish Reaper were consistent in following these standards. There's an SWS action to switch to the next window but it does not target docked windows.

By the way (I'm starting to rant) I've noticed that when an app becomes skinnable or gets a new fancy GUI with gradients and round corners it loses this standard controls behavior. I hope when all Reaper windows become themable it won't be at the cost of functionality.

So in a nutshell, Reaper's window manager (if there's such thing) should be redesigned, introducing universal shortcuts can make things even worse.
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Old 08-27-2014, 03:29 PM   #34
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@ProfRino
well you can of course keep using cubase while you re-establish workflow. but consider that many of your preferred ways of doing things likely have a more efficient alternative by now.

most of your workflow will be translatable in reaper, since it is quite flexible; but if you stick to too many old patterns you might get frustrated. i'm a custom workflow junkie and there are a shrinking number of ideas i have that are actually impossible in Reaper.

only think i miss from cubase is multiple mixers, which has already been requested here.
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Old 08-27-2014, 05:09 PM   #35
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Quote:
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@ProfRino
well you can of course keep using cubase while you re-establish workflow. but consider that many of your preferred ways of doing things likely have a more efficient alternative by now.

most of your workflow will be translatable in reaper, since it is quite flexible; but if you stick to too many old patterns you might get frustrated. i'm a custom workflow junkie and there are a shrinking number of ideas i have that are actually impossible in Reaper.

only think i miss from cubase is multiple mixers, which has already been requested here.
thanks, I try to have an open mind for sure.
Right now I'm mostly trying to recreate my keycommands (huge task, considering the different terminology) and follow everything interesting I find in the action list, incorporating what I like (which is a lot !)
It's a slow method, but it suits my thinking, and I'm constantly learning new tricks.

Pretty sure already, I can live far better with Reaper than with C7.x, but I do miss a few less advertised features a lot, like the locators in the transport, the info line, MIDI parameter feedback, bigger insert- and send slots (visibility on large screens), nameable audio I/Os, stuff like that

anyway, I'll keep on digging and try to post a few thoughts and questions along the way, this seems to be quite a nice community anyway, so bringing yet another opinion to the discussion won't sink the ship ...
There are good and bad things on all three sides of the fence ...
lol,
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Old 08-28-2014, 01:37 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProfRhino View Post
but I do miss a few less advertised features a lot, like the locators in the transport, the info line, MIDI parameter feedback, bigger insert- and send slots (visibility on large screens), nameable audio I/Os, stuff like that
i/o aliases are under audio prefs, ui interface can be customized but it's currently a serious pita with learning walter code etc. you might try fishing around for a theme with enlarged elements.

not sure what all the locators do, but you can separate time selection from loop selection (option) and then you have 4, plus regions and markers.

i use the free midi-ox app for midi feedback. it's a little overwhelming at first, but not hard to set up and then you can see exactly what midi data is being sent at any time from any device etc.

also if you right click the line below the TCP you can get different info to show, but again i don't know what all is covered in the cubase info line. good luck, Reaper's a great choice.
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Old 08-28-2014, 11:21 PM   #37
ProfRhino
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Hello PooFox,
thanks for solving another few little mysteries, gotta love the friendly, helpful atmosphere here !

- renaming I/O - solved !

Quote:
Originally Posted by PooFox View Post
also if you right click the line below the TCP you can get different info to show, but again i don't know what all is covered in the cubase info line.
good tip, about halfway there already.
The info line goes quite a bit further however, like the locators in the transport it allows easy, detailed input via MW or KB.
And its visibility is much better, without costing too much screen estate.
Pretty sure everybody would love it ...
I wrote a description and FR for the locators here in case you're interested, same concepts for the info line :
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.p...36#post1394936
here's a pic to give you an idea :
http://static.kvraudio.com/i/b/c7_project.png
the info line always reflects the selected item(s), it adapts its readouts, but it's present everywhere it makes sense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PooFox View Post
i use the free midi-ox app for midi feedback. it's a little overwhelming at first, but not hard to set up and then you can see exactly what midi data is being sent at any time from any device etc.
not sure we're talking about the same thing here, I would love to get bidirectional communication so that my BCR2000's LED rings reflect the actual parameter values.

re UI elements, afaics all themes have the same tiny insert slots, would be nice to have an optional higher versions, at the expense of overall amount of slots, obviously - just no zoom, Cubase 7 is a horrible proof of concept ...

All in all though, Reaper grows on me every day, a stellar program, but nothing is so perfect that you oouldn't discuss a few suggestions, right ?
thanks again,
Rhino

Last edited by ProfRhino; 08-29-2014 at 11:31 AM.
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Old 08-29-2014, 04:36 AM   #38
Tim Ragnur
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It seems there is definately room for improvement with shortcuts and window focus etc.

Just to mention another case:
With the regions/markers window active it steals the entire keyboard for auto jumping to markers/regions per first letters - and the edit cursor will jump too.
The tricky thing is that any action assigned to the key you press will still be executed in the main window…
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Old 08-29-2014, 04:52 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProfRhino View Post
All in all though, Reaper grows on me every day, a stellar program, but nothing is so perfect that you oouldn't discuss a few suggestions, right ?
thanks again,
Rhino
Totally. But please let's keep this thread at least remotely on topic - which is action assignment and window focus improvements. (Although, I appreciate each bump )

Also - and more important - can you please replace that huge screenshot with a smaller version and a link to the original size? These ultra-wide pics make it extremely hard to read a thread.
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Old 08-29-2014, 12:02 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gofer View Post
Totally. But please let's keep this thread at least remotely on topic - which is action assignment and window focus improvements. (Although, I appreciate each bump )

Also - and more important - can you please replace that huge screenshot with a smaller version and a link to the original size? These ultra-wide pics make it extremely hard to read a thread.
Ok, fair enough, done.
Just a pic found on the web, there is no other version (and with this pic you need a certain resulotion to understand the point).
Now we can focus on focus again.
Believe me, ever since C7.0 came out I've written more about that topic than all other topics combined, there you have a stellar example of how to mess things up. Until 6.5, KCs for arrange and mixer were always active, which is how it should be imho, unless you activate a text entry box or something. I'd much rather have to prefix plugin-specific commands with ctrl + alt + shift or something than compromise the basic DAW functionality.
And I'm all for excluding the main OS shortcuts from being mapped otherwise - e.g. ctrl + z should not be available for other functions, but you should be able to add another shortcut, in my example the straight z.
ymmv,
Rhino
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