Old 12-20-2018, 02:31 PM   #1
alxgvr
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Default Post-fader plugins inserts

Hi.

Ardour and Harrison MixBus have one great feature.
You can insert plugins both pre-fader and post-fader on tracks and buses.

99% of the time you would probably stick to traditional prefader...
But. Sometimes it is creative to use postfader position.
You can put clipper there (or any kind of saturation).
In this case, rising volume fader, will drive track output signal in to the plugin.
So, it will clip your signal just like analog consoles do. You will never get over 0 db level.
Rising fader will not only increase volume, but also harmonic content of the track, adding depth and presence. Immitation of classic analog workflow.
No more digital clipping. No more red indicators.

Or you can put limiter/compressor or just meter plugins.
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Old 12-20-2018, 04:36 PM   #2
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+1. So much this. Would solve so many annoying workarounds.
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Old 12-20-2018, 10:39 PM   #3
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+1. I really miss this feature in Reaper.
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Old 12-21-2018, 03:32 AM   #4
Masi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alxgvr View Post
Hi.

Ardour and Harrison MixBus have one great feature.
You can insert plugins both pre-fader and post-fader on tracks and buses
Has been asked for before. But you are the first one who describes a scenario besides metering that makes sense to me. *

Masi

* OTOH you can achieve this easily by inserting a gain plugin in your chain. For some types of metering I couldn't find such a (easy) workaround.
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Old 12-21-2018, 11:16 AM   #5
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Here's another similar example. Let's say I have a virtual instrument like Kontakt. I then have a few processing plugins after Kontakt - distortion, saturation, compression, etc. I then want to adjust the amount of Kontakt volume that hits those plugins.

Right now, if I move the track fader, it's adjusting everything at the end of the plugin chain. Not very useful. However, if I have Kontakt pre-fader and the plugins post-fader, as Alxgvr said, now I can adjust the level going into those plugins and ride them.

Furthermore, I can write automation or CC data so that I'm using Reaper's 64-bit bus to adjust my virtual instrument volume, not a lousy 127 values of CC data.

Sending to another track is not a good workaround, especially if you have specific fx chains for certain instruments. I already have a thousand tracks in my template. I can't afford to double the amount of tracks just because Reaper doesn't have pre/post fader slots.

And inserting a gain plugin adds two plugins to every single track if I want to still use CC7. One plugin pre-Kontakt/VSTi to filter CC7 going to the VSTi and/or changing the MIDI bus to skip over the VSTi and another plugin post-VSTi to receive CC7 to adjust volume and/or change the MIDI bus back to 1. So, I would be adding 2000 plugins to my template all because Reaper doesn't have pre-post slots.

Yes, you can workaround most anything in Reaper. However, when the workaround becomes this onerous and the feature request can simplify it so easily, it merits serious consideration. I believe this one does.

Last edited by Klangfarben; 12-21-2018 at 11:41 AM.
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Old 12-21-2018, 12:45 PM   #6
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You can't use track-level CC7 for the track fader without at least one extra plugin anyway, and it still needs to skip the VSTi. You can MIDI Learn OR MIDI Link any gain/volume/output parameter on any plug in the chain OR the input parameter of your clipper. It probably doesn't need a dedicated gain plug.
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Old 12-21-2018, 08:29 PM   #7
Klangfarben
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I'm still taking 1000 plugins over 2000. And like I said, I get the workarounds. I've tried and used many. But pre-post fader inserts is much more elegant and is a cleaner alternative which is why it has been requested multiple times and also why multiple DAWS have adopted it.
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Old 12-21-2018, 09:42 PM   #8
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I guess I'm not actually trying to argue against the feature. It makes plenty of sense to me. I'm not sure I'd ever use it, or at least I'm not missing it now. As long as it's not implemented in such a way as to interfere with MY workflow, it's kinda no skin off my nose. As far as I'm concerned, you can have it.


It's not clear to me why you need any extra plugins aside from the clipper you want to add, but I don't know much about what you're doing, and given that the mere idea of 1000 tracks just freaks me out, I'm not sure I want to know either. But that's a joke of course, if you want to describe a typical chain, I'd be happy to help you figure out how to make it work.

I do take a little (not much) exception to the term "workaround". In my mind, it's more like "how it works in Reaper".
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Old 05-05-2019, 06:02 PM   #9
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Would love to see this. Saw someone working with AirWindows and thought it was pretty impressive. Would love to take it for a spin!
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Old 05-05-2019, 09:39 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alxgvr View Post
Rising fader will not only increase volume, but also harmonic content of the track, adding depth and presence....
You can use an additional track for this. Maybe that track even can be hidden.

-Michael
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Old 05-06-2019, 09:35 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
You can use an additional track for this. Maybe that track even can be hidden.

-Michael
Exactly. This is how I sidechain a bunch of different sources for one track.
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Old 05-07-2019, 05:18 AM   #12
Gass n Klang
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
You can use an additional track for this. Maybe that track even can be hidden.

-Michael
Very uncomfortable solution. I'd like to do headphone 3D mixes using reaper but therefor I need a HRTF panner that has to be postfader (and post post fader fx send) so the source is binaural but the send is still normal stereo. I dont want to add a separat track for every track I got. So I dont use Reaper for that. Too bad.

Last edited by Gass n Klang; 05-08-2019 at 03:28 AM.
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Old 05-07-2019, 06:46 AM   #13
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+1 - Would be a great add.
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Old 05-08-2019, 02:01 AM   #14
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I suppose that it's only really helpful in a rather limited count of usage cased, some of which were stated here.

OTOH, I do agree that (e.g.) providing a flexible internal positioning / routing of the fader within the FX chain of a track would be perfectly in line with the versatility Reaper usually provides. E.g. similar to -> https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...44&postcount=1 (Thanks DarkStar). A simple "Fader" pseudo-plugin in the FX-Chain list would suffice as the GUI for this.

-Michael

Last edited by mschnell; 05-08-2019 at 05:17 AM.
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Old 05-08-2019, 04:35 AM   #15
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Related:
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=181450
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=167336
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Old 05-27-2019, 06:28 PM   #16
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+1 I believe yesterday's ground-breaking release of Console6 will have some other analog emu fans chomping at the bit for this.
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Old 05-30-2019, 06:28 PM   #17
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+1000
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Old 05-31-2019, 03:21 PM   #18
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+1 both hands.
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Old 06-06-2019, 02:05 AM   #19
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+1 we need this so much!!!
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