01-23-2023, 10:10 AM | #41 | |
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The few Windows plugins I use, I bought when I was running Windows, and now use them bridged, but I will NEVER spend another dime on a Windows plugin. I will not support vendors who do not support the OS I choose to use. |
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01-23-2023, 10:34 AM | #42 | |
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Why can't we just enjoy our native Linux plugins and also respect those who choose to continue using bridged plugins because there is no equivalent or because the plugins are are just objectively better quality (reverbs, for example)? Everyone seems perfectly content when things are working. I respect people who say they won't spend another penny on non-Linux developers but draw the line when developers are called "lazy" and are expected to dance to a user's individual tune because their toys suddenly stopped working through no fault of the developer. It's like complaining your book fell apart because you tried to read it underwater. It's a miracle these windows plugins even run on Linux. Nowhere in the license agreements does it say they are even guaranteed to run let alone be supported in such an environment.
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01-23-2023, 11:41 AM | #43 | |
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Anyway, if developers want my money (however little it is in the 'sea' of clients), they will have to develop Linux-compatible plugins. To demonstrate that I'm serious, I recently transitioned from FL Studio to Reaper. I paid around EUR 600 - 700 to Image-Line (FL Studio + plugins and packs) over the years in total, and yet I basically threw that down the drain because they stubbornly refuse to do a Linux binary. If EUR 700 from me alone is not enough to pay for that (and let's say there's about 100 Linux people willing to pay the same total amount of money for their products, and believe me, there is), then I think it is laziness and/or stubbornness and/or bias in question. For example, they said that they will 'consider' creating a Linux binary when Linux desktop users reach 10%. By contrast, not even Mac reaches 10% yet they decided to do a Mac-compatible binary (not a wrapper, but a fully-fledged render, which they also redid for ARM Macs recently). This is either laziness, boneheadedness, or pure bias against Linux, which I'm not going to tolerate anymore. |
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01-23-2023, 11:48 AM | #44 |
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Kontakt is my go to plugin for anything that isn't bass, drums, or guitars, and while it is my favorite plugin for other instruments like brass, woodwinds, and strings, I won't buy any new libraries for it, because Linux isn't a supported OS.
I coded applications specifically for Windows for 28 years, and the customers for the company I worked for would occasionally get requests for a Linux version, and while the database we used was compatible with Linux, things like probing the network for Windows shares, and interfacing with hardware like RFID encoding printers, would have been a total re-write to make it work in Linux. I understand why Native Instruments has no interest in porting Kontakt to Linux, and I don't dislike them for it. They just won't get any more money from me, coz I'm only voting Linux with my dollars now. If Kontakt were to stop working permanently in Linux, I would switch to LinuxSampler, and use some really great sounding E-Mu samples I already have for brass, woodwinds, and strings. The fact that I'm getting more miles out of Kontakt than I ever expected when I switched exclusively to Linux 5 years ago, makes me feel like I got my money's worth. Hehe, I only paid $109 for the full version of Kontakt 5 using the free Sennheiser drums plus Black Friday trick. |
01-23-2023, 12:12 PM | #45 | |
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Neither could I ever categorize a plugin or application developer as "boneheaded". If you can program in languages like C++ and understand the DSP to code software of excellent quality (such as FL Studio) they are certainly not stupid. "Pure bias against Linux" is probably nothing of the sort. They probably even code on Linux machines. What you are detecting is the result of carefully thought out business models with regard their current and projected time, resources and knowledge base to develop for, and then support, Linux which is nowhere near as simple as on Windows or MacOS.
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01-23-2023, 12:23 PM | #46 |
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Well, you know, software developers probably run (free) Linux because it is very good for software development, their websites are most probably hosted on Linux server distros (which are free), they use a plethora of open source programs such as Atom and VS Code.
Yet when they need to contribute back to the Linux/BSD/FOSS ecosystem (because, you know, it won't develop and improve itself as of yet, someone has to dedicate time and money to bring you that distro so you can download it for free - we'll see what ChatGPT and the like bring), they refuse on the basis of no significant enough returns. Even though many of them would not have probably made it as software developers if they had to pay for all the tools they had at their disposal for free with no strings attached (e.g. paying with your data). (BTW I know that many of them do contribute to Linux and other FOSS software, so those are not lazy developers by my definition) So, I am calling (some of) them lazy and stubborn and biased. But we can let it go, of course. I already did, and my decision is set. I'm not a developer and don't have the time to learn that, but I will stimulate development and show appreciation with my money and the products and services I produce using Linux and FOSS (and even proprietary but Linux-compatible) software. EDIT: stubborn / boneheaded is not equal to stupid, I don't make this equivalence. Last edited by /AND/; 01-23-2023 at 12:32 PM. |
01-23-2023, 12:33 PM | #47 | |
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FYI: "(very) stupid" is the very definition of "boneheaded". Perhaps be more careful with your word choices. In any case, it's not the only derogatory language you have been using. Perhaps we should all act like there are potential Linux audio developers visiting these forums (I know they do!). Would they be favorable to creating for Linux based on these attitudes and this labelling? I wouldn't want them to pull the plug(in) at the market research stage
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01-23-2023, 01:02 PM | #48 | |||
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(OK, FL Studio's core is done in Pascal (and assembler), which doesn't have an outright Mac nor Linux port, so I understand the reluctance to convert the code. Then again, they did it already for Mac so...) Quote:
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Last edited by /AND/; 01-23-2023 at 01:08 PM. |
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01-23-2023, 01:13 PM | #49 | |
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I appreciate that English isn't your first language. No worries there. On the rest, shall we just agree to disagree?
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01-23-2023, 01:19 PM | #50 |
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Awesome. I also donate here and there. that reminds me, I need to donate to Linux Mint. I never have, and it's working great for me. Also, LinVST. But I don't know how. anybody know how to do that?
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01-23-2023, 01:25 PM | #51 | |
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01-23-2023, 01:58 PM | #52 | ||
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01-23-2023, 01:59 PM | #53 | |
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01-23-2023, 03:23 PM | #54 | |
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Not that setting up yabridge is much trouble...I've got close to 2000 windows plugins and encountered very few that won't run (tho obviously I haven't tried all of them).
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01-24-2023, 04:35 PM | #55 | |
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A few devs have build-services to release across platforms, and I doubt they'd refuse a 'competing' dev's request for advice etc. I think a dev posting new linux versions, can just release a debian version, with the admonition that support come from the linux community, since a financial reward won't be huge at this point. This is often the case anyway. U-he provide great installers (bash install.sh) and excellent support, above and beyond the call of duty! AVLinux also has great support in various locations.
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Songs I've made with linux and Reaper, a qwerty forehead danger zone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtlO...RvGI8-_TqqZ7ij https://franklincheney.bandcamp.com/ |
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01-24-2023, 07:10 PM | #56 | |
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01-24-2023, 07:22 PM | #57 |
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I was able to load my dx version of Cakewalk Rapture a while back. I also enjoy the z3ta 1.5 vst, and I need to get my Dimension Pro registered in a linux for sfz and it's synth capabilities....all still very competetive, with many preset banks.
I think an old dx version of synth1 will still work in reaper, for the curious.
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01-24-2023, 07:41 PM | #58 | |
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My first computer based setup in 1984 was a Commodore SX64 (the briefcase version of a C64) With Sequential Circuits Model 64 midi sequencer, plus Sequential Circuits Drumtraks and SixTrak multi-timbral synthesizer. My setup was just like this pic, except my SixTrak synth was smaller, and was multi-timbral. The sequencer software was on an EEPROM built into the midi interface. You could print an audio clock from the DrumTraks to a multi-track Tape recorder, and then read it back in through the midi interface to synchronize midi sequenced tracks with multi-track tape audio tracks. You lost one audio track, but gained an entire midi orchestra.
Edit: Some trivia. The EEPROM based sequencing software on the midi interface card in the briefcase computer was written by Tim Ryan, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Ryan_(engineer)) who also wrote the midi sequencing software "Studio One" for the C64/SX64, which I bought, and then he later created the company "MidiMan" which later became M-Audio. My main midi keyboard today is a MidiMan Keystation 61 that I bought in 1999. Quote:
I got over it pretty quick and bought both Waves DBX160 and PSP Vintage Warmer, but then I went to Linux, and while the PSP Vintage Warmer works fine bridged, I opted to buy U-He's Presswerk so I'd have a native Linux plugin with some vintage sounding saturation. I no longer use any Windows plugins for audio tracks, and have found equal or better native Linux plugins. Virtual instrument plugins is another story though. I use Kontakt a lot, and every project I do starts with a scratch drum beat on Superior Drummer 2 to use as a metronome until I record the real acoustic drums. Prolly got thousands of dollars of software that I no longer use, but I got the miles out of them when I was using them. I learned when I switched to Linux that I wasn't married to my plugins, and was ready to chuck them all, but as fate would have it there was LinVST and I was able to continue using some of the ones that really have no Linux equivalent like Kontakt or Superior Drummer. Last edited by Glennbo; 01-24-2023 at 10:11 PM. |
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01-31-2023, 12:30 PM | #59 |
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I started with Cakewalk Home Studio 6, "Music software for Windows 95" - I still have the manual, 450 pages long. My keyboard also goes back to that time. It's called The Master Key from Studio 49. As in 49 keys. just midi, no onboard sounds. It has a midi-in and a midi-out. Plus an off/on switch. that's it. but it fits so nicely on my desk that I just can't get rid of it, and it does what it's supposed to do.
That seems so long ago, but it's really not. It's just the rapid rate of change that makes it seem that way. Mostly the change has been good, but I fear the future may see the death of real creativity, as people adopt AI. We will then have people with zero musical ability creating symphonies, and believing they are actually gifted composers. I'm just glad I was born in another world.
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02-01-2023, 03:03 PM | #60 |
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I enjoy reading your posts audiojunkie and Glennbo. The reason is laziness. lol When you post something, especially considering oldschool gear and soft, there's no reason for me to post anything.
I also started in the early 90s with Atari and Cubase. Now churning out tunes with only native Linux plugins and Reaper. There was a couple of years period in the early 2010s when I used Windows for making music and Linux for Internet and daily stuff, but as I realised there's enough plugins to do everything in Linux, I just stopped booting into Windows. It also helped when they released W8, W10 and W11 abominations... I've totally lost Microsh** from my radar. Nowadays I get more usage from my 2013 MacBook with Mojave One more thing: I discovered that having less plugins makes me work faster and being more productive. I stick to mostly u-he, TAL, Audio Damage, Airwindows and Cockos + JS plugins. It's more than enough. I also don't support any Win+Mac only plugin developers anymore. Rather buy or donate to these rare Linux developers. If it wasn't for u-he, I'd be still making music in Windows, though... u-he supporting Linux is a huge thing for me. TAL too. Cheers!
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Goodnight, thank you, and may your God go with you. Last edited by DuX; 02-01-2023 at 03:13 PM. |
02-01-2023, 03:15 PM | #61 | |
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I had sold my 1" Ampex AG440B-8 and Carvin MX1688 several months before Cakewalk Pro Audio, because I saw the writing on the wall. I use U-He's Presswerk extensively on pretty much every project I create in Linux. |
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02-01-2023, 05:17 PM | #62 |
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The first computer based music I did was in the mid 90's on a Mac. I started off using a program called Midigraphy, and I used it with the built in General MIDI sounds in the Mac. Later I found Protools Free. Yes, Protools had a free version for a while (eight tracks only), which ran on Mac up until OS9, pre OSX. I coveted the integrated Protools Mac hardware system. Luckily, I couldn't afford it.
The music for the song linked below was done using Midigraphy, including the echo effects which were all done using MIDI. I assume I added the vocals in Protools free, but I can't remember to be honest. https://soundcloud.com/thewastersoft...social_sharing So, we can complain about system non compliant plugins now, but back then there weren't any. |
02-01-2023, 06:01 PM | #63 |
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I think that what upsets people about this situation is not that companies don't bother to make their software Linux capable; it's quite understandable why they don't: it doesn't make sense financially. Rather, at least for me, it's that we are dealing with virtual monopolies here, and the government does nothing about it. And it hurts consumers. So what is going on? Why does the government break up Ma Bell, or the railroads (to really go back in time), but not Big Tech? microsoft has been getting away with the cyber equivalent of murder for decades. What gives? What is special about them? How is this different? I just don't compute this...
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02-01-2023, 06:47 PM | #64 | |
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https://www.crumar.it/?a=showproduct&b=41 Windows and Mac users have to pay almost a hundred bucks, but it's free to us Linux users. |
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02-01-2023, 06:49 PM | #65 |
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Ahh, so it's the government's fault that we can't get native Linux plugins. I should have known.
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02-01-2023, 07:19 PM | #66 | |
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https://plugins4free.com/plugin/2705/ Yeah, it's available for Win and Mac, but they also include a native Linux version. |
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02-01-2023, 09:34 PM | #67 | |
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https://jonvaudio.com/fircomp2/ |
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02-01-2023, 09:57 PM | #68 | |
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02-02-2023, 07:56 AM | #69 |
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Not only 'ignoring' those monopolies is a tangential fault of government, but creating and stimulating those very monopolies is the biggest fault of government here.
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02-02-2023, 10:31 AM | #70 | |
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And I agree as well about the companies you support. I am so glad that Cockos, U-he, TAL, etc., etc., etc. exist. Without these great companies providing us with professional quality plugins, I probably wouldn't even bother with music anymore. |
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02-02-2023, 10:59 AM | #71 | |
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It is very true that the younger generation doesn't realize how good things are, compared to the tech of the past. My current Linux setup with U-he and TAL, etc plugins is lightyears better than was what was available on any system without racks of expensive outboard gear. maybe that's why I don't have a problem with the limitations that come with Linux. My ultra-light 2-in-1 Lenovo laptop, setup with midi controller keyboard and Audio Technica ATH-M50 headphones, is so much better than even the best digital equipment that was available back then. A thousand bucks of equipment today would have cost (and did in fact cost ME) about $30,000 back then--and some people spent way, way more. I'm really happy with what I've got right now. |
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02-02-2023, 11:35 AM | #72 | ||
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Then when I was 9, my parents had been shopping and when they came home, I was playing right along with a record on a drum kit my sisters boyfriend had brought over. Finally at 9 years old got my first set. Later halfway through my senior year of high school my folks let me quit school to go on a road tour with the Drifters. That didn't last long and I came back to graduate high school on time, but right out of school I got an offer to go on tour with a semi-famous country singer. That lasted 7 years, and was when I got into multi-track tape. In the 80s the core members of the touring backup band formed a local band and proceeded to play another 7 years locally. That's when I got into midi and computers. Quote:
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