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Old 04-08-2010, 12:13 PM   #1
AdamWathan
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Default Option to display inserts in TCP

Vote here: http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=2562

Allow the option to display inserts and sends in TCP the same way they are available in the mix window

Currently, the mix window allows you to easily view all of your FX on each track and click them to immediately float them, bypassing the need for the FX Chain window. Clicking an empty slot brings up the FX browser to quickly add a new effect. Right clicking brings up a context menu with several options, including the ability to add FX completely bypassing the FX chain/browser window completely.

You can also view your sends in much the same manner, where the slots also have their own context menu.

This feature request is a request to bring the same functionality to the TCP, as 2 optional columns that would be nested between the current TCP and the arrange window.

How this looks in other DAWs:


Very rough mockup of how this could look in REAPER (imagine another column for sends as well, togglable of course):


This would function exactly the same way as the slots do in the mix window, and the columns could easily be toggled on or off in the View menu for example, with two options called "Show FX inserts in TCP" and "Show track sends in TCP".

These slots would be visible in all track heights, with more slots being available as the track height is stretched.

This feature would greatly enhance the workflow of those of us who work more or less exclusively in the arrange view. All of the features available in the mix window are already available in the arrange view except the FX slots and send slots, so completing the available functionality in the arrange view gives us complete control over REAPER from a mixing and editing standpoint all from one window.

Vote here: http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=2562

Last edited by AdamWathan; 05-30-2010 at 10:25 AM.
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Old 04-08-2010, 12:20 PM   #2
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+1

similar FR:
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=55382
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Old 04-08-2010, 12:22 PM   #3
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It is kinda obvious. So far the ideas surrounding inserts on the TCP have focused on tracks with enough height have these appear, which is what I made this mockup for:
The idea to have it appear to the right of the TCP seems like a logical progression, though it seems a little off to me to be honest. Looks like the only way to do it at that track height though.
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Old 04-08-2010, 02:18 PM   #4
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An "Inspector" (another FR) would also take care of that wouldn't it?
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Old 04-08-2010, 05:10 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawrence View Post
An "Inspector" (another FR) would also take care of that wouldn't it?

also my thoughts...
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Old 04-08-2010, 05:59 PM   #6
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Not really, I want to have a visual overview of the bulk of my inserts all at once. An inspector would only give me the plugins listed for the selected track, so it's just as many clicks as opening the FX chain window... If I'm being honest, I just miss this from Pro Tools...

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Old 04-08-2010, 06:29 PM   #7
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Ah... yes.
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Old 05-29-2010, 05:13 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airon View Post
It is kinda obvious. So far the ideas surrounding inserts on the TCP have focused on tracks with enough height have these appear, which is what I made this mockup for:
The idea to have it appear to the right of the TCP seems like a logical progression, though it seems a little off to me to be honest. Looks like the only way to do it at that track height though.
I like the idea, although for me, all it needs is the FX list like in mixer controls to appear depending on track height. this would do me just fine. it appearing on the right i think would take up real estate i wouldn't want to giveup, although maybe i'd have to try it to really know. if you could have the option to show always, or show depending on track height or never show that might be best of all worlds.

it's just the way FX work in mixer view is so awesome, it's kind of a downer you can't get same great functionality in tracks view.
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Old 05-30-2010, 09:32 AM   #9
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I like Adam's mock up very much. It's a subtle addition to the current Reaper look. This is gonna bring Reaper up so many levels.
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Old 05-30-2010, 10:26 AM   #10
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Original post has been updated and an FR has been started in the tracker, vote here: http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=2562
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Old 05-30-2010, 10:48 AM   #11
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What about to have a button to toggle between the track elements and the inserts, hence the track view keeps its size? (Would be one click more 'though.)





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Old 05-30-2010, 11:53 AM   #12
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I'd like to reorganize these elements.

The inserts and sends could be to the left of the current TCP for example.

And while we're at it, the i/o, automation and fx buttons need to fold down, given sufficient vertical space, as the TCP is horizontally shrunk. I tried to mix something rather complex, wanting to see the most of my material and thus resizing the TCP(still not part of screensets btw). The envelope/automation button, along with the FX button disappeared very early. You either use up a lot of horizontal space, or have no indicator of the automation mode of a track.

If/when MCP elements can be integrated in to the TCP, I'm not sure I want to burn up yet more horizontal space, while a large chunk may very well go unused under the current TCP controls.

Concerning reordering these elements, drag'n'dropping a column header at the top of the TCP column seems like the most intuitive solution to me. Anything else is a cumbersome list or menu solution(like Protools).

From a signal flow perspective it may even make sense to split off the recording section of the TCP and have it appear as a separate part, shiftable like all the others would be.
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Last edited by airon; 05-30-2010 at 12:03 PM.
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Old 05-30-2010, 01:48 PM   #13
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I like the way PT handles this thing. Reaper would do well (imo) to look into optional panels that display things like this instead of static displays or everything being cluttered onto the same TCP space. The PT method is conditional on what you care to see at a given time. Very well done.

I personally don't care much for the Reaper TCP knobs. They feel (to me) like a shortcut/hack... not an "ergonomic" design decision.

Last edited by Lawrence; 05-30-2010 at 01:55 PM.
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Old 05-30-2010, 03:01 PM   #14
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yes yes yes yes yes!

+1

+ WET/DRY level for the effects just like the sends, for quick mixing workflow.
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Old 07-18-2010, 11:01 AM   #15
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+1

This would be so good to use.

Voted Yes!
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Old 07-19-2010, 12:36 PM   #16
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this is one of the very few things i find great in protools, so... +100
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Old 07-23-2010, 06:51 PM   #17
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Quote:
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this is one of the very few things i find great in protools, so... +100
in sonar too
really useful
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Old 10-02-2011, 08:34 AM   #18
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So now with Walter available, and with all the workflow improvements falling into place I wanted to bump this.



I would just say clone the mixer fx and send layout, if that is possible. Not sure how hard it would be for cockos though. It really would be HUGE.

a few pre-emptive things
I have a track inspector with the mixer- this is still one track and is in no way the same.
right click cannot display multiple tracks fx
I never use the mixer in the traditional sense.

thanks guys

I guess I just wanted to know it this is even possible.

an old mockup for fun with reaction theme

[IMG]http://img543.**************/img543/70/fx4.th.png[/IMG]

Uploaded with **************
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Old 11-28-2011, 08:05 AM   #19
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Just want to bump this to remind that it is one of the main things I am missing atm. Sends and Inserts at the right site of the tcp. With toggles to make it visible and choose what you want to see there like it is implemented in Pro Tools. Can´t think of a better way.
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Old 11-28-2011, 08:22 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kainer View Post
Just want to bump this to remind that it is one of the main things I am missing atm. Sends and Inserts at the right site of the tcp. With toggles to make it visible and choose what you want to see there like it is implemented in Pro Tools. Can´t think of a better way.
more people like it every day
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Old 11-28-2011, 11:05 AM   #21
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ya, this would be cool. inspector typed thing, ok, but takes up more real estate.

mixer flashes in full screen for me isntantly at the press of a button. my button is a mouse button.

this lets me right away access sends and fx. i never use fx on tcp. in fact this is the main use of mixer for me.

what you need though, imo, is to have the track selected in tcp to be selected in mixer, and to be located front and center, or somewhere quickly accessible and visible. otherwise it becomes a pain.

that's the only flaw of going to mixer for me. and that would probably be a much quicker fix than what is proposed here, and more likely to be implemented first, and still useful even if this ever does come to be.

i have posted in feature requests for it. if others are interested i could make FR.

if your mouse has only two buttons i would suggest to get a better one so that you can bind a key to open mixer. and this will almost instantly cure your problems.
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Old 11-28-2011, 11:36 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sound asleep View Post
ya, this would be cool. inspector typed thing, ok, but takes up more real estate.

mixer flashes in full screen for me isntantly at the press of a button. my button is a mouse button.

this lets me right away access sends and fx. i never use fx on tcp. in fact this is the main use of mixer for me.

what you need though, imo, is to have the track selected in tcp to be selected in mixer, and to be located front and center, or somewhere quickly accessible and visible. otherwise it becomes a pain.

that's the only flaw of going to mixer for me. and that would probably be a much quicker fix than what is proposed here, and more likely to be implemented first, and still useful even if this ever does come to be.

i have posted in feature requests for it. if others are interested i could make FR.

if your mouse has only two buttons i would suggest to get a better one so that you can bind a key to open mixer. and this will almost instantly cure your problems.
It could be removed added through walter if added into reaper by the devs correct?
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Old 11-28-2011, 12:13 PM   #23
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It could be removed added through walter if added into reaper by the devs correct?
i would assume so. i know nothing about how walter works personally. i'm assuming that something like that would be removeable, and maybe even removeable with a an action. maybe walter can do it right now possibly. just have a secondary mixer that shows only the selected track mixer style in a docked left hand window. but then you would need an action to toggle it, and i'm not sure how you could do that, i have a sneaking suspicion you need devs for that, but, if you do it that way, then it might not be a giant task for devs, and may be more palatable.
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Old 11-28-2011, 12:43 PM   #24
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still waiting.
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Old 11-28-2011, 02:25 PM   #25
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using the currently available arrange over tcp drag we could do this for you folks that don't want to loose space

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Old 11-28-2011, 02:55 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Data View Post
What about to have a button to toggle between the track elements and the inserts, hence the track view keeps its size? (Would be one click more 'though.)





-Data

THIS would be better I think, Other wise the inserts are already right there with a docker mixer to the left.
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Old 11-28-2011, 03:52 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bennisixx View Post
using the currently available arrange over tcp drag we could do this for you folks that don't want to loose space

drag is not bad, but i find those finddly and wasting of time a little. i much prefer a button or keystroke to hide or show to set size in one quick move.

if you could do that, then that would be sweet.

but having it attached to track would not be suitable i think. it would end up being too short, or not the right size which would be a pain.

the best imo would be to have it on left side and outside of tracks, not limited by their height, and showing the track sends and fx and meter and fader basically the mixer view of track for selected track of tcp.

this could hide and show on command and set automatically to same width as in mixer view.

this is similar to how cubase is. except better.

tricky part would be on activation you'd want it to take real estate from the items pane, not the tracks pane, at least that's what i'd want, so that would mean for me, pushing everything to the right, and so the later parts of project would become hidden, not earlier parts, and not track pane.

imo that's the best way to achieve the functionality discussed here.
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Old 11-28-2011, 03:55 PM   #28
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Quote:
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this is similar to how cubase is. except better.

tricky part would be on activation you'd want it to take real estate from the items pane, not the tracks pane, at least that's what i'd want, so that would mean for me, pushing everything to the right, and so the later parts of project would become hidden, not earlier parts, and not track pane.

imo that's the best way to achieve the functionality discussed here.
you can do this with the mixer, if we could get multiple mixer instances great but I have an "inspector on the left already, what I would like it a fx bin on each track actually both !
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Old 11-28-2011, 05:55 PM   #29
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you can do this with the mixer, if we could get multiple mixer instances great but I have an "inspector on the left already, what I would like it a fx bin on each track actually both !
ok, well if you have the option for a full mixer, and the option to always have the mixer track for the selected track, why would you need to also have the FX bin and sends on all your tracks.

you will always be needing to resize your tracks anyways, or scroll forever from one track to next because your tracks will need to be quite large in order to fit this extra information.

imo it would be much easier to select a track you want and then have the mixer treack visible with all the options available, rather than have a bunch of information that clutters up a track and that you need to constantly resize everything in order to access and travel to your tracks.

my old workflow was to leave all tracks just big enough to see horizontal fader, which is quite small, and then i'd have one mouse button to toggle a track to fill view and then go back to normal. this way travelling is easy and you don't have to worry about changing sizes or not seeing stuff you want. and you can quickly move in and out of editing one single track. then i have another mouse button to open and close mixer and another to open and close midi editor.

this makes everything very fast.

even accessing fx bin and sends is quite quick this way. but it fails you if you need to search for your track in mixer view.

if i could instead pop out the mixer track of my selected track i'll admit that would be very strong. popping it in and out would be much faster than resizing everything constantly i find.

but whatever different strokes for different folks i guess.

but with a program like reaper, it's all fine to say "i want both" but you need to pick your battles as well.

the developers are few and can only do so much.

i mean, there are probably many features you would like, perhaps you know of many you wish for, and perhaps there are many more you would use and love but haven't thought of yet.

so when you think of feature requests, i find it's important to think of what would be quickest and easiest for devs, and what you really need, or what would really help you alot. you need to prioritize everything.

otherwise reaper will end up with a bunch of bells and whistles and miss out on lots of good hardcore functionality.

so really, i find it should be one or the other, and then we agree on which one, and then make an FR and vote on it.

like i said, me i'm not a big fan of things changing when i change track sizes. i don't like to change track sizes. i like on/off states. i find that works the fastest and best. zoom in, zoom out. collapse folders, open folders. scroll up scroll down. make single track mixer visible, make disappear. quick in and outs. everything accessible. everything efficient.

that's why i don't want this single track mixer to changing how i am seeing my tracks pane. i don't want anything hidden there. only the items area. i really dislike resizing folders, sliding things over so i can see a tool, and then sliding back for something else, to me that's all wasted time, and more than that annoying and frustrating, which i never want. i want smooth easy and quick. what i want when i want it. and i also don't like clutter, i like as visually clean of a look as possible. makes accessing things easier and is better for a work environment i find. better for the spirit.

that's why i don't much like many colors and bright colors and stuff either. only a few things here and there so that they are very visible, and that's what i like about RADO. it does that for me. i had to changes a few things, but still.

idk, i gotta say, i'm not finding it such a huge pain in the ass to need to go to mixer, except for when it's rough to find the track i want. i haaaaate that. i sometimes have lots of tracks, accessing just the highlighted track's mixer track, would solve that, and that would actually be a pretty nice improvement for me.

so if that FR gets made, i'm on board. having a bunch of clutter i have to keep resizing my tracks to use, however, i would choose to remove or never initialize were the option available.


i am curious about your workaround though.

does your inspector always change to show the highlighted track?

-is it docked?

-i'm assuming it's your mixer window except it's only large enough to fit one track worth.

-is there a way, or do you have it set in such a way that it is easy to switch to full screen mixer view, and then back to inspector mode?

if you have what i hope you have, then i have no FR for any of this stuff at all, and you have just made me very happy.

i can think now, it might get riggiddy i could see myself hiding mixer from full screen and then wanting inspector, opening it, and then having full screen mixer instead and then i have an extra step to do.

more i think of it, the more this needs the devs.

but like you said, maybe just a second instance of mixer available with it's own action. sounds simple, but maybe that's incredibly complex.
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Old 11-28-2011, 09:54 PM   #30
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ok sound asleep as what you want is a different subject than this fr try this

control plus grab the mixer "tab" and drag it to the left of the screen till the blue line goes all the way up and down the left side of reaper.

this will dock your mixer on the left.

right click "dead" space to the right of mixer tracks and deselect "show master track" and deselect "show multiple rows when size permits".

drag the tcp border over to the edge of one mixer track and try clicking on a tcp track and you will see it changes.
you may want to set your mixer layout prior to this

good luck I hope this helps, but is no way as useful to me as a REAL per track tcp fx bin.

sreensets can switch mixer to inspector.

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Old 11-30-2011, 06:14 AM   #31
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++++1
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Old 12-01-2011, 05:25 PM   #32
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Quote:
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ok sound asleep as what you want is a different subject than this fr try this

control plus grab the mixer "tab" and drag it to the left of the screen till the blue line goes all the way up and down the left side of reaper.

this will dock your mixer on the left.

right click "dead" space to the right of mixer tracks and deselect "show master track" and deselect "show multiple rows when size permits".

drag the tcp border over to the edge of one mixer track and try clicking on a tcp track and you will see it changes.
you may want to set your mixer layout prior to this

good luck I hope this helps, but is no way as useful to me as a REAL per track tcp fx bin.

sreensets can switch mixer to inspector.
so as not to hijack the thread much more i wrote a response here: http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=92508
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Old 03-17-2012, 11:58 AM   #33
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Voted. I made a duplicate FR because I failed to find this one. My apologies.
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Old 03-17-2012, 01:28 PM   #34
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Don't sweat it . The tracker is quite a mess. I found the original ticket by searching the Reaper forum using Google site search. It gave me this thread which luckily linked back to the tracker ticket...

While I'm here...
YAY for insert (and send) slots in the TCPs
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Old 03-18-2012, 08:20 PM   #35
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I've always wondered why its not there in the first place. It obviously has its uses in the MCP.

Still begging lol
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Old 02-06-2013, 06:16 AM   #36
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+1

Oh God yes please! This is so unbelievably needed. I looked into the WALTER documentation as well, and the fact that I cannot find a single identifier for inserts relating to the TCP in theming alarms me. I wish this could be solved through a theme, but it can't -- apparently. It should be part of the core Reaper functionality, HANDS DOWN!
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Old 04-03-2014, 04:57 AM   #37
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there is actually a way to do something somehow similar, if anobody is still interested I could explane it
p
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Old 04-08-2014, 05:10 AM   #38
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PaulRain > I'm really interested ! Could you please post your explanation?
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Old 04-08-2014, 05:34 AM   #39
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insert an fx
on the fx panel, press "param"
then "FX parameter list" select the one you think is more usefull but if you just need to open the FX it doesn't really matter
on the same "FX parameter list" you can select also "Alias parameter" to change the name....
this way you'll have a knob on the track, if you double click on the name (not on the knob) the plugin will opens up.
this doens't work with all the themes I found out
I know is just a workaround
p
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Old 04-08-2014, 05:48 AM   #40
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It would be nice, but as an option only (not as default TCP), because I would not use it, too much Information and only half of the complete Information (depending on track height!) is more confusing than helpful.
If I want to see the inserts of different tracks, I simply press one key and I am in the mixer view - ain´t that simple ?!
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