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Old 07-19-2018, 06:16 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxAsteria View Post
I don't necessarily mean the master. Each of the tracks has their input pins on the right side and outputs on the left. I'm sure I could eventually get used to it but it's really messing with me, since it's totally counter-intuitive.
True. I was also confused first.
The whole design is based on right to left signal flow.
In folder tracks it kind of makes sense. The parent track is on the left side and child tracks are on the right side. This shows the parent-child relationship intuitively. But it also means that signal will flow from right to left.

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Old 07-19-2018, 06:22 AM   #82
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Yeah I agree it doesn't make a lot of sense... left to right signal flow makes more sense. That's how we read, after all.
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Old 07-19-2018, 06:59 AM   #83
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The wwise schematic view also has a right to left signal flow.

Here's how they deal with search and filtering by category

https://youtu.be/Dk0j3inxHOQ?t=94
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Old 07-19-2018, 07:02 AM   #84
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Quote:
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Yeah I agree it doesn't make a lot of sense... left to right signal flow makes more sense. That's how we read, after all.
+1

And more characters so the forum stops bitching.
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Old 07-19-2018, 07:04 AM   #85
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Some sort of indication of signal flow would be useful, as suggested.

Also, Reason has an option to only display wires for the selected device, which could be useful here. So selecting a track would only show all wires related to it.
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Old 07-19-2018, 07:14 AM   #86
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I think that clicking a button that causes a pop up to appear should hide that popup on the second press of the button. The button image should probably also change to reflect that a popup is open.

I feel the natural next step here is to allow sending and receiving from any point in the fx chain.

I noticed we have the option to only show wires when mouse over, but this doesn't help when following wires off screen, as they will vanish when you scroll to find the end.
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Old 07-19-2018, 07:17 AM   #87
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We can only add channels by opening the io popup, it seems like it would be intuitive to have plus/minus buttons at the top right of the track to add or remove channels, as we have in the plugin pin window
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Old 07-19-2018, 07:19 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Travesty View Post
So selecting a track would only show all wires related to it.
It's doing that already, no? You can right click for an option to hide the wires until you hover the mouse over a track.

I actually think it could be broken down a bit further to only show wires relating to specific aspects of the track, since a single track can easily have an unwieldy number of wires (e.g. fx busses).
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Old 07-19-2018, 07:19 AM   #89
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You can also add channels by holding the mouse drag and going to the pin area of the track and then slightly to the right. Can access the first 6 channels like that, without I/O dialog.
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Old 07-19-2018, 07:22 AM   #90
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Is there some real advantage in using curved signal route graphics for example in sends and receives?
The curved cables seem to use unnecessary large area of the screen. Straight lines or horizontal-vertical grid routing would be much more compact.

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Old 07-19-2018, 07:50 AM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
You can also add channels by holding the mouse drag and going to the pin area of the track and then slightly to the right. Can access the first 6 channels like that, without I/O dialog.
Right, but what if you're working in 7.1 and need to send to 9/10 so you can sidechain? I don't see a reason not to have add / remove buttons
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Old 07-19-2018, 07:53 AM   #92
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Minor UI note, but I'm finding it difficult to read the pin interface, because of a lack of contrast between the colours, in particular the red
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Old 07-19-2018, 07:56 AM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jnif View Post
Is there some real advantage in using curved signal route graphics for example in sends and receives?
The curved cables seem to use unnecessary large area of the screen. Straight lines or horizontal-vertical grid routing would be much more compact.

jnif
Or having an option to alternate between curved and straight, since curved lines look really good, for new users with few tracks, until routing gets complex.
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Old 07-19-2018, 08:02 AM   #94
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Straight lines will obscure text more often, as they will largely be horizontal. The probability of a wire curved in this way obscuring the whole of a word is much lower.
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Old 07-19-2018, 08:10 AM   #95
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Sidenote. The wiring diagram is in the same order as the mixer.


No crashes yet either. Neat.
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Old 07-19-2018, 08:13 AM   #96
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Quote:
First impression, shock, awe, confused - ha

^lol-similar 1st impressions..


Quote:
Also there's a typo in Theme development/tweaker: "Wiring: Backgruond grid lines".

^lolz-schoolboy pranks fo'sure. guys like a joke eh..


Quote:
To me any graphical presentation is confusing. I hope I don't need to use it.

^heh-how do you actually read m8? many would disagree with that i reckon visual stuff is quite important..unless 1 is blind.


Quote:
I was also confused first

^hmm-that's not a good sign m8-long time users not getting 'it'.


Quote:
I agree it doesn't make a lot of sense... left to right signal flow makes more sense. That's how we read, after all.

^heh- sense? where? - + some read the other ways..not all do as u do..


Quote:
+1 And more characters so the forum stops bitching.

rofl-- dem biatchiz dem-funny them.


Quote:
Reason has an option to only display wires for the selected device, which could be useful here. So selecting a track would only show all wires related to it.

^yus-i find that way very intuitive and workflow is solid,easy,practical.. like so>
https://youtu.be/VU6PA7Yhkq8?t=18


Quote:
We can only add channels by opening the io popup

^hmmm-yis-- this is defo gonna need a lot more attention for me to make really usefull... tbh-the perfect combination of graphic + flow would be fl's patcher >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MioflOzsOtU {over 7yrs old that vid..) +reason's routing system (which is kinda unique also)



reaper devs need to be exceptionally clever about this--am not sold at all yet...right now, i think it's really half baked and burnt at the edges tbh.




1st i saw this >


then saw this>


i really was not seeing much differences here 2018.. sigh=lolz


totally no disreaspect-but come on__ cockos you can do better!! !!
thanx.
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Old 07-19-2018, 08:19 AM   #97
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A few suggestions:

Double click empty space to create new track

Dragging master / parent button of one track to another track should reorder hierarchy to change the destination track to be the parent, and convert parent track to a folder if it isn't already.

Shift clicking a track should mute it

Allow renaming of the tracks

Allow selection of multiple tracks so we can move them around

Marquee selection

Minimise button on a folder should have the option to collapse children into the parent track node
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Old 07-19-2018, 08:33 AM   #98
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The FX pin connection graphics can be misleading when plugin is collapsed in track wiring view.

It looks like only the output pin connection is shown even when there is also input connection on the same channel.

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Old 07-19-2018, 08:33 AM   #99
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Could do with an auto arrange function, as you add new tracks in the tcp the wiring diagram gets messy. The only option currently is to reset the whole view.

In our proprietary node editor at work, you can right click any node and select auto arrange. This will attempt to neaten up the structure from that point downwards. Though it would be better if it could intelligently shift the other nodes along when a new one is inserted, though I appreciate this sort of thing is a can of worms when people can make any arrangement they want
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Old 07-19-2018, 08:33 AM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Travesty View Post
Minor UI note, but I'm finding it difficult to read the pin interface, because of a lack of contrast between the colours, in particular the red
Colors can be changed in theme tweaker, somebody said.
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Old 07-19-2018, 08:39 AM   #101
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True, but the average user isn't going to know / bother to do that. The defaults should be readable.
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Old 07-19-2018, 08:49 AM   #102
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Quote:
Colors can be changed
nice if ya give a toss -- but the functions... aghh
rulez are to be broken-riight?

Last edited by Bri1; 12-22-2018 at 11:56 AM.
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Old 07-19-2018, 08:54 AM   #103
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Thinking about it some more, I can see why wwise locked down their schematic view so you can't arrange stuff yourself, it's too easy to mess your pretty arrangement of nodes by working in the tcp.

Wwise has a similar hierarchical setup to the tcp, the actor mixer hierarchy, and also has a node view called the schematic. The two have to remain in sync with each other, so the schematic view is rigid. Nodes can be collapsed into each other, but not moved around.
The schematic will automatically organise itself to make the most of the available space as the actor mixer hierarchy is rearranged.



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Old 07-19-2018, 09:26 AM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobU View Post
I bet no one in the v6 wishlist thread saw that coming
the closest i got! (i forgot to mention an option to show routing just from selected tracks)



here: https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=207226
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Old 07-19-2018, 09:39 AM   #105
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Thank you, JESUS!

I've been beggin for a while ya'll ....


Ya'll KNOW this!

Lord! Daggonit!

I'm stayin!

Screw Studio One, Ableton Live, Bitwig, Cubase, etc. etc. etc.

Ya'll definitely are messin with my heart now!

And it looks beautiful!

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No longer do I covet Reason and Tracktion!
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Old 07-19-2018, 10:28 AM   #106
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After some testing...

I must say, I'm really digging this update.
Some options I'd like you guys to consider, if you don't mind:

- Intuitive drag-panning (maybe as a mouse modifier or something) and zooming.
- Track diagrams are cool (was hoping for this with intra-track FX routing).
-- Maybe a button to zoon into/expand that view. But this is welcomed gesture in that direction.
--- Maybe that can be later implemented along with Parent Tracks being collapsible to "group" nodes.
--- And when it comes the possible intra/inner-track wiring, group nodes there as well would be quite useful.


I guess I've fallen in love with nodes (definitely in Blender), ever since I realized the power of routing (since P-head's Reason).
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Old 07-19-2018, 11:37 AM   #107
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just have a fatal crash to desktop with a light project with this pre.
I was tweaking a Drumatic plugin knob and ... poof.
There were no issue with this project with 5.93.

Reaper used to be rock solid on my system and can't remember a crash in +10 years.

OSX Maverick.
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Old 07-19-2018, 12:21 PM   #108
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Without a crashlog for the devs, you can't expect much regarding resolving that...
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Old 07-19-2018, 12:31 PM   #109
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dearest cockos,
○ can you pleaseplease give a brief overview or some kind of documentations when potentially game changing alterations are made!! ♥
^i really feel this will help a lot of users!
•thanx•
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Old 07-19-2018, 12:45 PM   #110
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I guess I've fallen in love with nodes (definitely in Blender), ever since I realized the power of routing (since P-head's Reason).

^yas-- i do also--blender's nodes system is pretty good yea >1 more reacent function was the 'autosort' thing =if you drop a node on top of another,the autosort,sorts it out.. =worx ok.nicer +would be most usefull here.
reason's routing is unique-- some say reaper's is good--but overall so far,i think reason has it by a nose.
<together is awesome> with rearoute or w/e!

i wished always for the company merger which aint ever gonna happen!! =) lolz.
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Old 07-19-2018, 01:08 PM   #111
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Now that I've had a chance to check out the wiring view, I think it's really cool and (potentially) useful, but there's a lot of wasted space making it difficult to be used when docked.
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Old 07-19-2018, 02:26 PM   #112
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Nice!

But at the moment not functional. Vertical and horizontal scrolling is connected for some reason (bug), so that I cannot scroll to where I want to go. If I want to see track 10 for instance, when I try to scroll there horizontally, it also scrolls down vertically all the way down, but that is not where track 10 is, so I see nothing. It is not possible to bring track 10 into view (this is just an example, most tracks I cannot bring into view).

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Old 07-19-2018, 02:41 PM   #113
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We could do with a "view follows tcp selection" option
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Old 07-19-2018, 02:56 PM   #114
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oh man haha this is heaven!
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Old 07-19-2018, 02:59 PM   #115
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More ideas to enhance wiring diagrams
  • Filter, options to view tracks, folders, sends, receives, etc
  • fuzzy search for track name, fx, etc
  • zoom in and out
  • drag middle mouse button for navigating
  • track selection indicator, or ability to select track on diagram follows TCP/MCP

Yes, left to right routing is more convenient
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Old 07-19-2018, 04:08 PM   #116
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Default Zoom in files flac

The change in the scale of the project with the files (Zoom in) of the "flac", occurs with terrible brakes. The problem is not only with the latest release.
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Old 07-19-2018, 04:27 PM   #117
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Not sure a wiring view is of any use whatsoever for tracks, seems pointless.

A container that can be loaded in to a plugin slot, then we can load plugins in to a plugin wiring view like this for modular setups, and you have a winner.

Maybe this request being made over the years wasn't made clear enough for the devs to understand and they actually thought that a working view for tracks was wanted, something that will never work well with a big project with lots of tracks.

The UI seems excellent though if it was a modular plugin container, really hope it can be repurposed for effect purposes where it would be so powerful.
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Old 07-19-2018, 04:43 PM   #118
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I disagree that it is useless, my mixes make use of a huge amount of parallel processing, and keeping track of what is sending where is a big problem towards the end of a project.

However, I do agree that a modular plugin implementation, maybe similar to flstudios patcher would be immensely useful, and I hope we are heading in that direction.
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Old 07-19-2018, 04:53 PM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpunk_w View Post
Not sure a wiring view is of any use whatsoever for tracks, seems pointless.
I kind of share the same thought, but I think that maybe there will be more more kind of more interactive panels like this, which is very positive : )
and also more filters in this one.

I wonder if we can or will be able filter the view to selected track only (and their relations and sends)

Last edited by deeb; 07-19-2018 at 05:08 PM.
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Old 07-19-2018, 05:25 PM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Travesty View Post
my mixes make use of a huge amount of parallel processing, and keeping track of what is sending where is a big problem towards the end of a project.
I kind of need the same, and for so something like in the gif i previously posted would be more handy then diving into a modular kind of view, which i don't want to dive very often in creative mode.

It's kind of ridiculous, like: at this moment if we want to see if a track is freezed we must open track manager to know! it is not handy and unfriendly.
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