|
|
|
09-26-2010, 11:53 AM
|
#1
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: stuck in transition
Posts: 1,870
|
The Big Calculator in the Sky
"Remember, your DAW is not a mixer. It's a big calculator. The more processing you do, the less coherency remains from the original source you recorded." --John Vestman
oi
|
|
|
09-26-2010, 01:35 PM
|
#2
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Afford Slaughterhouse, FL
Posts: 624
|
|
|
|
09-26-2010, 01:37 PM
|
#3
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,805
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by politcat
"Remember, your DAW is not a mixer. It's a big calculator. The more processing you do, the less coherency remains from the original source you recorded." --John Vestman
oi
|
Well, I've made "calculations" that have moved people to tears. There's something to be said for that I suppose.
|
|
|
09-26-2010, 01:47 PM
|
#4
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,027
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by politcat
"Remember, your DAW is not a mixer. It's a big calculator. The more processing you do, the less coherency remains from the original source you recorded." --John Vestman
oi
|
With irony...
"The more processing you do with outboard electronics, the less coherency remains from the original source you recorded."
|
|
|
09-26-2010, 02:08 PM
|
#5
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: West Wales
Posts: 766
|
ho..
Well I'm not really much of a mixer either but i know that the more processing i do the more processing i do an that can't be bad! - a sort of blessing in 'de skies'- what's so good about natural???. ...... just thought I'd add a bit of dither etc.
|
|
|
09-26-2010, 04:48 PM
|
#6
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 105
|
...and remember, that mixing board is a big calculator, too!
|
|
|
09-26-2010, 05:44 PM
|
#7
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,859
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by toggle
...and remember, that mixing board is a big calculator, too!
|
how so? analog = electrical signals, digital = numbers which represent those signals.
__________________
It's time to take a stand against the synthesizer.
|
|
|
09-26-2010, 05:49 PM
|
#8
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,638
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by politcat
"Remember, your DAW is not a mixer. It's a big calculator. The more processing you do, the less coherency remains from the original source you recorded." --John Vestman
oi
|
ermmmm whatever dood.
|
|
|
09-26-2010, 05:55 PM
|
#9
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,860
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by politcat
"Remember, your DAW is not a mixer. It's a big calculator. The more processing you do, the less coherency remains from the original source you recorded." --John Vestman
oi
|
What does this even mean? What do you mean by "processing?" What do you mean by "coherency?" How do you lose it? What's bad about it?
|
|
|
09-26-2010, 06:07 PM
|
#10
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: South, UK
Posts: 14,218
|
Even voltages have to deal with quantum energy states it is not infinite it's digital
hee hee.
Also, compared to the noise level in analogue studios a 32bit or 64bit system still has a long way to go, that said without the benefits of oversampling etc some processes do make your argument of "less is more" valid in some situations.
I just think your statement can cause a lot of damage via misconceptions.
|
|
|
09-26-2010, 06:09 PM
|
#11
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 105
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by brainwreck
how so? analog = electrical signals, digital = numbers which represent those signals.
|
Yes, one is analog and the other is digital, but both are calculators in essence, and in purpose. Summing signals is supposed to mean "summing" signals, literally.
Another example: when an electrical signal encounters a potentiometer, the output voltage is the result of the input voltage multiplied by the ratio of the top and bottom of the voltage divider (created by the pot). A calculation, no?
|
|
|
09-26-2010, 08:52 PM
|
#13
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Right Hear
Posts: 15,618
|
Hey total BS... "my DAW IS a mixer..." I've used it mix martini's quite often and it works fine... Of course you will the SWS extensions for that... you can read in the manual how to get'er'dun.
|
|
|
09-27-2010, 05:17 AM
|
#14
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: South, UK
Posts: 14,218
|
I've just wasted time reading through his website and he mixes in helpful proven tips with sonic witchcraft, the stuff about different hard drives sounding better or worse is a little disturbing as for CDs. Do these people know what a null file is or is he just a plain snake oil salesman who glams up the myths to get in the clients.
|
|
|
09-27-2010, 05:48 AM
|
#15
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,153
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Roseberry
With irony...
"The more processing you do with outboard electronics, the less coherency remains from the original source you recorded."
|
So true.If it sounds good...
|
|
|
09-27-2010, 08:11 AM
|
#16
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Terra incognita
Posts: 7,670
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by toggle
Yes, one is analog and the other is digital, but both are calculators in essence, and in purpose.
|
In essence analog signal is varying voltage levels as is digital signal too. Difference being that analog signal stays in its basic voltage varying essence within the limits built into the (analog) system. Signal transferred to digital has been calculated from that and is then presented in the same voltage varying form but within limits of digital system, applied by constant calculations. Signal born in digital world is a straight result of calculations.
Theres no need to calculate the analog signal itself, it was done to the system while building it to transfer and edit the signal. But there is a need to constantly calculate the digital signal to do the same.
Quote:
Another example: when an electrical signal encounters a potentiometer, the output voltage is the result of the input voltage multiplied by the ratio of the top and bottom of the voltage divider (created by the pot). A calculation, no?
|
Again, calculations by the designers of said system when it was built. But they don't have to sit there on guard and constantly do these calculations again and again (rebuilding the signal) every instance the voltage varies. Digital by the very nature of it has to do these calculations all the time.
It is this very lack of constant (active) calculations which makes analog more unpredictable, less precise in a way, whereas digital calculations should always bring the same results...both within the limits of given systems, of course. Which is better is another matter.
Last edited by xpander; 09-27-2010 at 08:40 AM.
|
|
|
09-27-2010, 12:22 PM
|
#17
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 603
|
One thing I read on his site that maybe you guys can help me understand...under "levels of improvement to DAW sound" #5 is
"Loop-back file vs. internal bounce
7%" improvement.
What exactly does he mean? Does he actually mean taking a recorded track and going through a physical output and then back into an input to record? Why would that be an improvement running through the AD/DA converters like that? Why is that better than a typical ITB bounce? I hope I'm making sense here!
__________________
John
|
|
|
09-27-2010, 02:04 PM
|
#18
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
Posts: 2,787
|
Quote:
Remember, your DAW is not a mixer.
|
A silly thing to say... Clearly, mixing is one of the many things you can do with a DAW! And, there's nothing "wrong" with the way a DAW mixes... Perhaps he doesn't know what a mixer is...
Quote:
Originally Posted by toggle
Yes, one is analog and the other is digital, but both are calculators in essence, and in purpose. Summing signals is supposed to mean "summing" signals, literally.
Another example: when an electrical signal encounters a potentiometer, the output voltage is the result of the input voltage multiplied by the ratio of the top and bottom of the voltage divider (created by the pot). A calculation, no?
|
RIGHT!!!
Analog mixers are built with Summing Amplifiers. If you put 1 Volt into 3 mixer inputs, you get 3 Volts out (assuming the signals are in-phase, etc., so they mathematically sum to 3V).
An amplifier (or preamp) is an analog multiplication device. If you have an amp with a gain of 2 and you feed-in 1 Volt, you get 2 Volts out... If you feed-in 2 Volts, you get 4 Volts out. For attenuation, you can multiply by a fraction, or use a resistor network or pot as a voltage divider. Yes, this is regular 'ol mathematical division!
|
|
|
09-27-2010, 06:22 PM
|
#19
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 54
|
If you write "nubers" over a "machine" to understand what will be altered on audio signal and if you say it's only a "mixer", you have to admit it as a calculator.
|
|
|
09-28-2010, 07:54 AM
|
#20
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Madrid, Spain
Posts: 405
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by musicbynumbers
I've just wasted time reading through his website and he mixes in helpful proven tips with sonic witchcraft, the stuff about different hard drives sounding better or worse is a little disturbing as for CDs. Do these people know what a null file is or is he just a plain snake oil salesman who glams up the myths to get in the clients.
|
Exactly my thoughts after reading thru his page too.
How 1s and 0s be different from one disc to another?
He just has got to get off drugs or share them with the rest
__________________
Carpe Diem Quam Minimum Credula Postero
|
|
|
09-28-2010, 08:10 AM
|
#21
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,265
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanFafian
How 1s and 0s be different from one disc to another?
|
A 1 on one disk might be warmer than a 1 on another disk.
It is a proven fact ... I once measured temperatures on a Seagate drive and it differed from that of a Western Digital drive.
After finding out about that fact I now also only record in the summer because it's warmer in general.
|
|
|
09-28-2010, 09:00 AM
|
#22
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,027
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mich
A 1 on one disk might be warmer than a 1 on another disk.
It is a proven fact ... I once measured temperatures on a Seagate drive and it differed from that of a Western Digital drive.
After finding out about that fact I now also only record in the summer because it's warmer in general.
|
I'd think you'd want to try and maintain consitent temps when mixing.
To preserve the optimum balance of warmth vs. detail.
Winter = use Seagate
Spring = use Samsung
Summer = use WD
Fall = use Samsung
|
|
|
Thread Tools |
|
Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:13 PM.
|