Old 07-06-2009, 08:02 AM   #1
EvilDragon
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Default My first serious work with Reaper

22 tracks for now.

Things missing: two vocal tracks, a choir backing track, a bass guitar (fretless), a rudimentary drum track (nothing spectacular).

Used EW Colossus in Kontakt 3 (9 instruments), EZD Latin Percussion for percussion, found riq and claves samples on the net. (EDIT: got rid of the claves.)

Rough mix, slight compression on all percussion, slight compression and reverb on acoustic guitar, non-aggressive multiband (sonitus:fx) on master. For now. When I record all that's missing, I'll try... whatever you say needs to improve XD

EDIT: tweaked mix a bit, explained in post #13)

http://www.box.net/shared/suk5f676xx

Last edited by EvilDragon; 07-13-2009 at 05:34 AM.
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Old 07-07-2009, 01:02 AM   #2
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Noone? Really?
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Old 07-07-2009, 02:45 AM   #3
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very pro and very classy ... sounding a tad familiar... great work!
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Old 07-07-2009, 07:07 AM   #4
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Nice work! I like the mix. I'm not very experienced, so the following may be totally off base, but I think the percussion instrument should be EQ'd to sound more natural. Other than that, I can't think of anything else. Good stuff. Thanks for sharing.

Maybe you'll get more replies if you upload it to stash and people can listen using the forum's player.
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Old 07-08-2009, 02:46 PM   #5
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Very proffesional indeed, like it.

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Old 07-08-2009, 03:04 PM   #6
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I think this is pretty cool. It will be even cooler when the fretless gets added. Like the composition very much.

But ... kill the bongos. They are so out of place in this otherwise wonderful song.

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Old 07-09-2009, 05:51 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smueske View Post
... kill the bongos. They are so out of place in this otherwise wonderful song.
I wholeheartedly agree.
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Old 07-10-2009, 12:42 AM   #8
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I lowered the volume on congas (not really bongos ), and they're gonna end up buried beneath the bass guitar, violin and vocals anyway, so what the hell :P I love layers XD

Many people I've asked actually like the congas there ^^'
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Old 07-10-2009, 09:26 AM   #9
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The problem with the bongos, congas, whatever, is that they're too repetitive. That triplet, especially, stands out. I think it could work if there were more variation, but they really kill it for me. It's not my song, so I personally don't care what you do with them. Just letting you know that for one listener, at least, they don't measure up to the song.
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Old 07-10-2009, 12:03 PM   #10
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Firstly ,I agree with the congas going on too long. Maybe they could come and go in the mix, or, have the rhythm picked up by a different instrument.
That said I like the interplay of the rhythm with the melody and counter melodies. The mix is sounding good as well. I'd like to hear it with the rest of the proposed tracks.


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Old 07-10-2009, 05:02 PM   #11
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Wow !

Very Pro and classy as Siko said, excellent.
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Old 07-10-2009, 08:13 PM   #12
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Sounds very big & movie theme like
I,d like to hear the accoustic guitar up front ( but thats just me )
I have no idea how your going to find space for
2 vocal tracks
a choir
Bass & drums

But i'm sure you'll have fun trying

Sounds very pro!!

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Old 07-13-2009, 05:27 AM   #13
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People, please revisit the link in OP post, I have tweaked the mix a bit more, added some slight compression (not to kill the dynamics) on percussions separately, and EQd them slightly. I also rared up the congas (especially those triplets) and I hope they are not as repetitive now. I pushed them slightly to the back too, making acoustic guitar go up front more, just like somebody here suggested (it was my intention too at first, but a rough mix is rough )

So how does it sound now? I've tried the lyrics with my sister, it will sound dope, but I will have to transpose the stuff from F minor to G minor, she will sound way better in that scale.


Thanks for all the comments, I'm sure to put the final version here, when all tracks are recorded.


Things to do more: vary the udu more (that's the rumbling bass thing heard also throughout the song), maybe decide if I'm gonna cut the conga in certain places, add a drum track (really simple, haven't decided if they're gonna be acoustic or electric), make my violinist practice the leads (they are awesome to me, if not tricky a bit ) and get the fretless recorded with vocals. Use my Wordbuilder and EWQLSC maybe for choirs (which are not going throughout the whole song, just in the intro, second verse, and after final chorus.

A lot of work, for sure.

Last edited by EvilDragon; 07-13-2009 at 05:31 AM.
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Old 07-13-2009, 12:35 PM   #14
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That's very nice! Good work.
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Old 07-16-2009, 04:21 PM   #15
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Even better than before

It's interesting to hear that you have added some mild compression, because if anything it sounds even more dynamic than before, to me anyway.

How long have you been doing this sort of thing ? Writing, recording and mixing I mean.

I think the tune is excellent
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Old 07-17-2009, 10:22 AM   #16
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Yes, the mix has improved. Very nice. The congas have also improved, but I still think they go on too long. Perhaps mix in some larger drums.

Still, a mature and very well made track. Best of luck with it!
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Old 07-17-2009, 12:17 PM   #17
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Maybe because I tweaked some volume levels the dynamics are kind of improved, I don't know. This is a mild track, so it doesn't really need heavy metal comp squashing, or anything like that.

As I said, about 50 seconds in the song the drums will enter with a laid back 3/4 beat, and that will take over congas, which will then remain in the background for the rest of it. I think that's a good solution. Also, I need to vary the udu drum more, it's the most monotonous thing in the whole song.

@TedR - actually, this is my first big recording project. Since I don't have many funds, I'm using my headphones (Philips SBC HP200) as a reference (I know that's not recommended, but I have untreated room and no monitors whatsoever, only Kenwood stereo, which... you know).

I've been writing songs for several years now, didn't do an awful lot of them, but I have around 15-20 pieces, a LOT of riffs and parts, and it's pretty diverse. Mostly going from orchestral to heavy metal and progressive music, with some small ambiental dives.

So, I'm actually surprised that this all goes well, considering that it's my first REAL mix (in crappy production conditions), which will incorporate real instruments (violin, fretless, vocals). I'm still young (23), but I wish to learn as much as I can about music production. I feel that I've come to the right place.

People, thanks for commenting and appreciating my work! I hope you will pleasantly enjoy when this track is fully done. And after I record some more tracks (this all is for a soundtrack project, for a visual novel game).

Cheers, I'll keep updates here!

Last edited by EvilDragon; 07-17-2009 at 12:20 PM.
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Old 08-10-2010, 11:33 PM   #18
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You got me interested in hearing how this will sound when finished with vocals and other "leads"!
I agree with comments on the congas but I also think once you add drums they will take over the job as the song's backbone and leave congas as an extra coloring for which they work fine in your composition.
As for the mix - I confess I am total noob in that department but as a music listener enthusiast this sounds like "radio-ready"-quality to me.
And, yes I am pro the opinion that good song sounds good no matter how you mix it (and vice versa )

Good work! Thumbs up here!
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Old 08-11-2010, 11:07 AM   #19
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Good work ED,

although I expected more guitars and growling voices, perhaps you gonna have to change your avatar

One thought I had throughout all the time listening: perhaps change the drums to a more bodhran sound ?

But then again thats just my humble opinion...
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Old 08-11-2010, 01:41 PM   #20
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Excellent. No more words...
Waiting for your new works!!!
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Old 08-16-2010, 05:46 AM   #21
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Not very evil...

This is a beautiful sounding composition ED.

Personally, I don't think any of the percussion that is currently being used fits with the rest of the song. It's a little distracting and takes away from the overall emotion of the song.

You've painted half a picture here though, so it may sound very different once you have the rest of the elements in place.

That being said, it is a very small criticism of the piece. Overall, it really is beautiful and I could never approach this kind of composition myself so for me to offer a critique on this piece is a line cook trying to advise a chef on his technique.

Looking forward to hearing this as it develops.
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Old 08-16-2010, 10:14 AM   #22
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ED - my jaw is on my desk. Could listen to a lot of this stuff. I'd still like to hear the congas backed off a touch more, and the guitar brought up. Or, even better, maybe some automation that keeps shifting focus between them and the harp(?). Anyway, that's just me. Wonderful work, really. Can't wait to hear the finished rendition.

Kyle
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Old 08-16-2010, 10:37 AM   #23
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Nice job! As soon as I heard it, it brought to mind some of Dan Fogelberg's elaborate arrangements, like on "Netherlands"
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Old 08-17-2010, 04:58 AM   #24
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Very restful, indeed.

In my opinion, the melodic ostinato with the acoustic guitar is both simple and kind of heady, yet...

But the main thing I noticed, is that your nickname and your pic are definitely on the opposite of your music ! Maybe you should rename yourself "MajesticDragon" or something, or maybe smile on your pic ?

(Take it easy anyway, don't wanna be insulting at all )
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Old 08-17-2010, 07:26 AM   #25
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Wow - This is beautiful!

I have always appreciated your helpful comments on the forum but this is the first time I've listened to any of your music.

This is a great combination of styles. It's almost like Mantovani meets Brian Wilson meets George Harrison with George Martin producing. I absolutely love it.
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Old 08-17-2010, 12:31 PM   #26
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It's 10000000000 times better than anything I could ever do so I'm not really comfortable criticizing it at all. All of the instruments sound pretty natural and the acoustic guitar is really clean and concise. I like that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
22 tracks for now.
I'll try... whatever you say needs to improve XD
http://www.box.net/shared/suk5f676xx
I would actually like to hear a version without the congas...just to see if it cuts down on the busy-ness. To expand on what Eigh said above... You got me interested in hearing how this will sound when finished with vocals and other "leads"! It seems a bit like the instruments are competing for the lead. What do YOU consider the lead instrument to be (if any)?
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Old 08-17-2010, 12:49 PM   #27
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Yeah. Right out of the classic era of 50's film scores. Wonderful.

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Old 08-17-2010, 01:13 PM   #28
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I could totally imagine this as a score to a Japanese anime feature film. Actually, as I was listening, I was imagining closing-credits, panning through those scenic landscapes that those guys draw so well.
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Old 08-17-2010, 01:35 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark VH View Post
I could totally imagine this as a score to a Japanese anime feature film. Actually, as I was listening, I was imagining closing-credits, panning through those scenic landscapes that those guys draw so well.
Bingo!

This is going to be ending theme for a certain visual novel my friend from Phillipines is working on.

Quote:
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It seems a bit like the instruments are competing for the lead. What do YOU consider the lead instrument to be (if any)?
Vocals are lead, of course. But gotta record them first (it's taking too long to get to that!) This current mix is basically a preview of what is going to come. Now that I have fretless bass recorded, I need to record live violin and add the real drums into the story. Of course the percussions are going to take a hike then, and I'll have a lot more job mixing this mother, but I think it's going to melt your ears when it's finished, if those ears aren't melting already!



Actually, since I did the guitar using RealGuitar2, it would be cool if somebody could record the guitar, this one is too clean (!) - some people said that it can be heard, although I tried really hard to randomize velocities and timing and stuff. Perhaps I should filter the sound somewhat, and introduce some noises and stuff, to make it a bit like... rusty ol' acustic guitar!

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Old 08-17-2010, 05:06 PM   #30
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Hey EvilDragon,

That's a beautiful song! If you ever need someone to play drums for you please drop me a line.
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Old 08-17-2010, 05:09 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hercules View Post
Hey EvilDragon,

That's a beautiful song! If you ever need someone to play drums for you please drop me a line.

Thank you! And thanks for the offer, I'll definitely keep it in mind! For the record, what genres do you cover best? Any representative recordings of yourself?
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Old 08-17-2010, 06:37 PM   #32
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Quote:
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Thank you! And thanks for the offer, I'll definitely keep it in mind! For the record, what genres do you cover best? Any representative recordings of yourself?
My "passion" is Prog rock, but I can play jazz, blues, pop etc - I'll dig out something and send it to you. :-)
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Old 08-17-2010, 07:06 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hercules View Post
My "passion" is Prog rock
Great! I'm lately listening to early Genesis. Ace stuff!
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Old 08-17-2010, 08:58 PM   #34
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Excellent - "Foxtrot" and "Lamb Lies Down on Broadway" would be my favourites from Genesis.

This song is not in that vein but it was recorded at a recent jam I sat in on for a few songs - I had never played this song before so it's all "improvised", recorded live using Reaper, no effects, no mixing other than bounce to mp3... (disclaimer, disclaimer....) - I just had to remember the song from hearing it on the radio years ago...

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9910326/New%...0of%20Mind.mp3
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Old 08-17-2010, 10:51 PM   #35
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nice song! the only thing i don't really like is the sound of the strings, they sound a bit too synthetic.

otherwise great song, sounds a bit anime like.
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Old 08-17-2010, 11:11 PM   #36
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Very, very nice work ED! I'm looking forward to hearing the finished product.
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Old 08-17-2010, 11:38 PM   #37
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Sweet. Just the percussion not working for me personally. Magic work.
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Old 08-18-2010, 01:21 AM   #38
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beautiful work!
Love the mix too.
Please don't give up and keep making great music like this!
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Old 08-18-2010, 01:40 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmoustache View Post
nice song! the only thing i don't really like is the sound of the strings, they sound a bit too synthetic.
That's intended. This is a light poppish song, doesn't need the full-blown realistic orchestra really
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Old 08-18-2010, 07:47 AM   #40
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Good composition. Hope to hear more in the future. Yeah the congas were a bit distracting as it took away from the melody. Other then that, good job!
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