Success!! How to program Reaper to use a Yamaha YPG-235 with a Proteus 2 Orchestral

[Rob94hawk]

My son plays piano & keyboard & he wanted to use a Proteus 2 Orchestral with his Yamaha keyboard.

I have the setup like this:

YPG-235 --> USB-MIDI IN --> Computer --> USB-MIDI OUT --> Proteus

Here's where I don't have a clue what I'm doing with Reaper. What specific settings do I need on Reaper for him to be able to use the Proteus?

I'm in way over my head with this stuff but willing to accept the challenge.

Thank you.

Edit: Made a vid on how I have everything set up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yq7DOwQkiBI

Edit: Took me about two weeks to realize one little setting was holding the whole project up! Here's the vid:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--awCCl5gE4

[mschnell]

Welcome !

But:

It seems like the keyboard can be directly connected to the Proteus box by a Midi cable.

So why use a computer in between ?

-Michael

[Rob94hawk]

Originally Posted by mschnell

Welcome !

But:

It seems like the keyboard can be directly connected to the Proteus box by a Midi cable.

So why use a computer in between ?

-Michael

I wish it were that simple. The keyboard has a type B USB.

[mschnell]

So you just need to pass the Midi stream through the PC ?

Here in fact Reaper is not necessary (but of course it can be used).

Supposedly you need an USB-Midi interface to hook the sound box to the PC via Midi.

-Michael

[Rob94hawk]

Originally Posted by mschnell

So you just need to pass the Midi stream through the PC ?

Here in fact Reaper is not necessary (but of course it can be used).

Supposedly you need an USB-Midi interface to hook the sound box to the PC via Midi.

-Michael

It's all hooked up with the appropriate MIDIs. I just need to know how to get the keyboard to communicate to the Proteus.

[mschnell]

If you really want to use Reaper you would
- enable the Midi interfaces in the device config (supposedly that is by default)
- create a track
- set the track's input to Midi -> appropriate device (Keyboard)
- use track routing to add the target Midi device as a Midi hardware output (sound box)
- arm the track.

-Michael

[Rob94hawk]

Can't get the Proteus working.

Do I have to set anything on the Proteus? It's on channel 1

Do I have to change anything on the keyboard? There is a PC1 & PC2 settings?

Edit: set keyboard to 'kbdout' & 'on'

[mschnell]

Sorry, but I don't know the Proteus nor the keyboard, and don't understand anything of what you describe / ask.

To monitor the Midi stream within Reaper you can use the ReaControlMidi plugin and click the "show log" button.

And you should see the red bar of the input track flickering when Midi comes in.

-Michael

[WolfJames]

Originally Posted by Rob94hawk

Can't get the Proteus working.

Do I have to set anything on the Proteus? It's on channel 1

Do I have to change anything on the keyboard? There is a PC1 & PC2 settings?

Edit: set keyboard to 'kbdout' & 'on'

Just out of curiosity, what are you routing the Proteus to? And how?
I know you're routing from keyboard to computer to Proteus, right? But, then what is the Proteus being output to?

[Rob94hawk]

Originally Posted by WolfJames

Just out of curiosity, what are you routing the Proteus to? And how?
I know you're routing from keyboard to computer to Proteus, right? But, then what is the Proteus being output to?

No. This is the routing:

YPG-235 Keyboard --> USB-MIDI IN --> Computer --> USB-MIDI OUT --> Proteus

[viscofisy]

Originally Posted by WolfJames

Just out of curiosity, what are you routing the Proteus to? And how?
I know you're routing from keyboard to computer to Proteus, right? But, then what is the Proteus being output to?

Originally Posted by Rob94hawk

No. This is the routing:

YPG-235 Keyboard --> USB-MIDI IN --> Computer --> USB-MIDI OUT --> Proteus

I'm assuming @WolfJames meant :

are you hoping just to amplify the output of the Proteus - ie to practise/perform with;

or are you hoping to also route the Proteus' audio back into Reaper to record it?

_

[WolfJames]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're not going to hear anything if the Proteus isn't routed to "something" to play the output. Correct? It has to either be routed "back" into the computer, or to an external amplifier of some sort. Or am I missing something?

[viscofisy]

Originally Posted by WolfJames

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're not going to hear anything if the Proteus isn't routed to "something" to play the output. Correct? It has to either be routed "back" into the computer, or to an external amplifier of some sort.

Yip.

@OP - The Proteus receives MIDI messages - and responds by triggering the appropriate sound files.

But you still need to bring the Audio out of the Proteus - either by amplifying, or by re-routing the Audio Outs (of the Proteus) back into Reaper.
_

There's a bit of explaining to do, and I suppose that's what put people off from trying to offer answers.
_

Ideally, you'd start off with a keyboard which has the standard MIDI OUT connector.
Then you'd only have one cable to trigger the Proteus, instead of your current setup.
So the only problem you'd have would be to get the audio out of the Proteus.

What you're trying is do-able ... but ... supposing you want to record in Reaper ...

people who record Audio generally buy a dedicated Audio Interface (they start from $100-ish new) because there's a time-lag (called latency) involved in routing audio to and from a computer. (An Audio Interface is basically a better-performing version of the soundcard that's built into your PC).
_

There's also a lag for MIDI.

So ideally you want as few trips in and out etc as possible.
_

If the latency builds up through round-about wiring trips, your son will play a note but only hear it later. This gap might be tolerable, or it might be too long.
_

You can still try the setup you have - you'd need to bring audio from the Proteus' AUDIO OUTs into your PC soundcard ... and into Reaper.
_

Or if you don't want to record, then you need to amplify the Proteus' Audio Outs.

_

[mschnell]

This device -> https://www.bome.com/products/bomebox might be able to do the original request without using a computer.

"MIDI-DIN: 1x input, 1x output. USB Host Type A: supports USB-MIDI devices, ..."

(But maybe a new keyboard costs less...)

-Michael

[Rob94hawk]

Originally Posted by viscofisy

Yip.

@OP - The Proteus receives MIDI messages - and responds by triggering the appropriate sound files.

But you still need to bring the Audio out of the Proteus - either by amplifying, or by re-routing the Audio Outs (of the Proteus) back into Reaper.
_

There's a bit of explaining to do, and I suppose that's what put people off from trying to offer answers.
_

Ideally, you'd start off with a keyboard which has the standard MIDI OUT connector.
Then you'd only have one cable to trigger the Proteus, instead of your current setup.
So the only problem you'd have would be to get the audio out of the Proteus.

What you're trying is do-able ... but ... supposing you want to record in Reaper ...

people who record Audio generally buy a dedicated Audio Interface (they start from $100-ish new) because there's a time-lag (called latency) involved in routing audio to and from a computer. (An Audio Interface is basically a better-performing version of the soundcard that's built into your PC).
_

There's also a lag for MIDI.

So ideally you want as few trips in and out etc as possible.
_

If the latency builds up through round-about wiring trips, your son will play a note but only hear it later. This gap might be tolerable, or it might be too long.
_

You can still try the setup you have - you'd need to bring audio from the Proteus' AUDIO OUTs into your PC soundcard ... and into Reaper.
_

Or if you don't want to record, then you need to amplify the Proteus' Audio Outs.

_

The only port I have on the back of this Yamaha YPG-235 is a USB Type B port. But could I use an adapter such as this to connect my USB MIDI to the Proteus to play it? Such as this:

https://www.amazon.com/Electop-Femal...male+to+female

Also, to hear the sounds from the Proteus I have a audio headset. Would that be sufficient?

[viscofisy]

Originally Posted by Rob94hawk

The only port I have on the back of this Yamaha YPG-235 is a USB Type B port. But could I use an adapter such as this to connect my USB MIDI to the Proteus to play it? Such as this:

https://www.amazon.com/Electop-Femal...male+to+female

I could be wrong, but I'm assuming that they're different signals and so you couldn't.
Maybe someone can advise if there's a USB to MIDI converter available?

Also, to hear the sounds from the Proteus I have a audio headset. Would that be sufficient?

I've never owned any synth sound modules, but others here do and could give better advice. There's not much Proteus info readily available so I googled for a picture, and the rear outputs (apart from MIDI) are subs and a LeftOut and RightOut. The LeftOut is also a Stereo Out - if you were going to try headphones that would be where to try. Again, just an assumption - but I reckon those OUTs would go to an amplifier.

If you get no help then maybe try a PM to forum members ReaDave or XITE-1/4LIVE? I know they're both into hardware synths and outboard wiring etc. I'm sure they could answer both of these questions.

Good luck with it anyway.
_

[vdubreeze]

I still have my Proteus. (It's leveling my turntable : )

When you say:

"YPG-235 --> USB-MIDI IN --> Computer --> USB-MIDI OUT --> Proteus"

it should work, but what is the USB-MIDI out? Is it a Midi port on the PC? There doesn't seem to be a separate midi interface involved so that's what it seems, but correct me if I missed something.

When the Proteus gets midi messages, as in the keys being played, the midi light in the front will light up. If it's not flickering when the keyboard is played then it's not getting midi info. If it *is* flickering with the keys being played then it's getting the info.

Check that midi channel 1 on the Proteus is turned on while you're using it. Hit the Master button and school with the data button until you get to "Midi Enable" and make sure channel 1 is set to on.

The Yamaha would need to be transmitting either on Ch 1 or on all channels, if that's an option. Sometimes if you're going through software it doesn't matter because that can be reassigned there, but make it this way anyway.

There's also the thing about, if you're in Reaper, choosing the midi controller in its preferences and also what's getting midi, but without knowing exactly how it's routed it's hard to say if that enters into it with whatever you have as a midi out to the Proteus.

Pic?

[karbomusic]

YPG-235 --> USB-MIDI IN --> Computer --> USB-MIDI OUT --> Proteus

Does the Proteus have a USB MIDI connection and the OUT above is that one? I know it's a basic obvious question but my quick image search only showed me a Proteus 2 module that only had standard MIDI connections so wanted to ask. Either way let me rephrase your connection flow to be more specific...

YPG-235 > Computer > USB-MIDI IN (for YPG in Reaper) > Some track with rec arm and input monitoring enabled > same track with a hardware MIDI out pointing to > USB-MIDI OUT (for Proteus in Reaper).

Just an FYI that I think it does, but not 100% sure if Reaper routes the incoming MIDI right back out that hardware output when rec arm and input monitoring is on vs playing back an actual MIDI item, I assume it does but worth mentioning.

[vdubreeze]

Oddly enough, though it's not obvious from looking at it, even though there is no output labelled Headphones you can plug them into the main output/stereo. Just to check for audio you can run the Proteus demo by hitting the Master button until it shows the module settings and not the sound programs, and scroll to the end, to Demo Sequence. Cursor over to Start and hit enter. See if you hear the demo.

[viscofisy]

@karbo and vdubreeze - to avoid further confusion :

the OP already understands the routing mentioned.

What he's now asking is :

1)Is there a device which could convert USB midi to standard 5pin midi without going through a computer?
(The USB MIDI mentioned is the only MIDI Out available on the OP's keyboard - it has no 5pin MIDI, hence the problem of connecting it to the Proteus).

2) Can headphones be used on the Proteus stereo Output ... or does that signal need to be amplified?

I gave my opinions above ... but definitive answers would be better
_

[vdubreeze]

Originally Posted by viscofisy

@karbo and vdubreeze - to avoid further confusion :

the OP already understands the routing mentioned.

What he's now asking is :

1)Is there a device which could convert USB midi to standard 5pin midi without going through a computer?
(The USB MIDI mentioned is the only MIDI Out available on the OP's keyboard - it has no 5pin MIDI, hence the problem of connecting it to the Proteus).

2) Can headphones be used on the Proteus stereo Output ... or does that signal need to be amplified?

I gave my opinions above ... but definitive answers would be better
_

1) The OP is saying that he already has midi out of the computer going to the Proteus. He's being asked to clarify as he may not need to purchase another widget.

2) See above. The master out stereo functions as a headphone jack. No amp required.

[viscofisy]

Originally Posted by vdubreeze

Oddly enough, though it's not obvious from looking at it, even though there is no output labelled Headphones you can plug them into the main output/stereo. Just to check for audio you can run the Proteus demo by hitting the Master button until it shows the module settings and not the sound programs, and scroll to the end, to Demo Sequence. Cursor over to Start and hit enter. See if you hear the demo.

Cheers - at least that's good news - you should get a headphones signal from the Proteus L/(stereo) OUT.
_

[karbomusic]

Originally Posted by viscofisy

the OP already understands the routing mentioned.
_

It certainly appears that he does but good troubleshooting assumes nothing and confirms everything and those finer details aren't listed (or I missed). His diagram doesn't show where the MIDI USB OUT goes and I can't find a MIDI USB connection on the Proteus but I'm trying to assume I don't have an accurate image:



Also need the confirmation of whether he has rec-arm and input monitoring on.

[viscofisy]

Originally Posted by vdubreeze

2) See above. The master out stereo functions as a headphone jack. No amp required.

Cheers - I acknowledged that above.
_

Originally Posted by vdubreeze

1) The OP is saying that he already has midi out of the computer going to the Proteus. He's being asked to clarify as he may not need to purchase another widget.

No - if you read back, the Yamaha Keyboard USB MIDI OUT >> PC >> Proteus routing has already been established and noted by the OP.
_

What he's now asking is whether the PC can be cut out of the equation - that is ... is there such a device as a USB to 5pinMIDI box that doesn't need a PC?

_

[viscofisy]

Originally Posted by karbomusic

It certainly appears that he does but good troubleshooting assumes nothing and confirms everything and the finer details aren't listed (or I missed).

His diagram doesn't show where the MIDI OUT goes and I can't find a MIDI USB connection on the Proteus but I'm trying to assume I don't have an accurate image:

karbo - I always respect your explanations and your advice - but in this case you might be causing confusion.

We already know (have been told by the OP) that the Yamaha Keyboard has only USB MIDI Out.

And that the Proteus has only 5Pin MIDI IN.

That's the origin of the problem.

That is, triggering the Proteus using the Yamaha.
_

He's aware of the routing (except maybe back into Reaper - I have already asked whether he actually wants to Record, or just to listen. Right now he seems to be content just to listen/monitor the Proteus).
_

The next question is as above - is there a MIDI box of tricks that can connect the Yamaha to the Proteus without a PC in between?
_

Originally Posted by Rob94hawk

The only port I have on the back of this Yamaha YPG-235 is a USB Type B port. But could I use an adapter such as this to connect my USB MIDI to the Proteus to play it? Such as this:

https://www.amazon.com/Electop-Femal...male+to+female

Also, to hear the sounds from the Proteus I have a audio headset. Would that be sufficient?

[karbomusic]

Originally Posted by viscofisy

karbo - I always respect your explanations and your advice - but in this case you might be causing confusion.

We already know (have been told by the OP) that the Yamaha Keyboard has only USB MIDI Out.

And that the Proteus has only 5Pin MIDI IN.
_

Yep, that matches my concern so where the hell does "USB MIDI OUT" go then?

"YPG-235 --> USB-MIDI IN --> Computer --> USB-MIDI OUT --> Proteus"

USB MIDI OUT can't go to the proteus unless there is some other device I missed in the explanation. If the question is what's next, and we know all this, then yea, he/she needs something to output standard MIDI over a MIDI cable but that diagram assumes stuff is already hooked up to my eyes.

[viscofisy]

Originally Posted by karbomusic

Yep, that matches my concern so where the hell does "USB MIDI OUT" go then?

"YPG-235 --> USB-MIDI IN --> Computer --> USB-MIDI OUT --> Proteus"

The OP is now asking if the YAMAHA USB MIDI Out could be hooked up to the Proteus (ie, Yamaha USB MIDI to 5pin MIDI Proteus) using a box or connector ... rather than a PC.
_

[karbomusic]

Originally Posted by viscofisy

The OP is now asking if the YAMAHA USB MIDI Out could be hooked up to the Proteus (ie, Yamaha USB MIDI to 5pin MIDI Proteus) using a box or connector ... rather than a PC.
_

Saw that earlier, answer off the top of my head is doubtful and/or rather for the same effort and likely less cash, buy a device that works with the computer which are all over the place and easy to find.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...and-um-one-mk2

Something like ^this should show up as a MIDI device in Reaper - plug its MIDI out cable into the MIDI in of the proteus. I'd shop around, that's just the first item I found.

[viscofisy]

Originally Posted by karbomusic

Saw that earlier, answer off the top of my head is doubtful and/or rather for the same effort and likely less cash, buy a device that works with the computer which are all over the place and easy to find.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...and-um-one-mk2

Something like ^this should show up as a MIDI device in Reaper - plug its MIDI out cable into the MIDI in of the proteus. I'd shop around, that's just the first item I found.

Yip. Or, should you ever want to record, you could cough up a bit more for an Audio Interface* with MIDI In and Out.

Or - if'n you want to keep it simpl-est and just play and listen ... look for a keyboard with 5pin MIDI Out.

_

p.s. -

*My elderly Focusrite Scarlett 8i6 has MIDI In and Out. You'd probly pick a used one up for 100 quids.

_

[Rob94hawk]

Wow thanks for all the input guys! Reading through it as we speak.

I'll start with the demo on the Proteus.

Edit: The Proteus works & sound fine!

I'll make a short youtube vid of how I have it hooked up.

[Glennbo]

Originally Posted by karbomusic

Saw that earlier, answer off the top of my head is doubtful and/or rather for the same effort and likely less cash, buy a device that works with the computer which are all over the place and easy to find.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...and-um-one-mk2

Something like ^this should show up as a MIDI device in Reaper - plug its MIDI out cable into the MIDI in of the proteus. I'd shop around, that's just the first item I found.

Here's a step by step DIY Arduino project that takes USB midi in and converts it to 5 pin midi out.

The catch is that your USB midi controller must be class compliant, or it won't work.

https://www.instructables.com/id/Ard...IDI-Converter/

[Rob94hawk]

Here's how I have it all linked up:

https://youtu.be/Yq7DOwQkiBI

[karbomusic]

Thanks for the video!

Ah, it's a little difficult to see but it looks like you already have a USB device that sends to a regular MIDI out cable, maybe this guy below?

https://www.guitarcenter.com/iConnec...61202712467.gc

That said and if I saw it correctly, make sure you click the IO/routing button on the track and add a hardware send TO that proteus output...



Your MIO out should show up in the MIDI Hardware Output list (yellow). What I would also do as a test, is add an actual MIDI item on the track with some MIDI notes in it - it would be a great idea to test just Reaper-to-proteus and make sure that part is working first by hitting play and seeing if the notes in the MIDI item makes it to the proteus.

[Rob94hawk]

Originally Posted by vdubreeze

I still have my Proteus. (It's leveling my turntable : )

When you say:

"YPG-235 --> USB-MIDI IN --> Computer --> USB-MIDI OUT --> Proteus"

it should work, but what is the USB-MIDI out? Is it a Midi port on the PC? There doesn't seem to be a separate midi interface involved so that's what it seems, but correct me if I missed something.

When the Proteus gets midi messages, as in the keys being played, the midi light in the front will light up. If it's not flickering when the keyboard is played then it's not getting midi info. If it *is* flickering with the keys being played then it's getting the info.

Check that midi channel 1 on the Proteus is turned on while you're using it. Hit the Master button and school with the data button until you get to "Midi Enable" and make sure channel 1 is set to on.

The Yamaha would need to be transmitting either on Ch 1 or on all channels, if that's an option. Sometimes if you're going through software it doesn't matter because that can be reassigned there, but make it this way anyway.

There's also the thing about, if you're in Reaper, choosing the midi controller in its preferences and also what's getting midi, but without knowing exactly how it's routed it's hard to say if that enters into it with whatever you have as a midi out to the Proteus.

Pic?

MIDI Enable
channel 01: On

Made a vid:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yq7DOwQkiBI

Do I have it hooked up right in the back of the Proteus?

[Rob94hawk]

Originally Posted by karbomusic

Thanks for the video!

Ah, it's a little difficult to see but it looks like you already have a USB device that sends to a regular MIDI out cable, maybe this guy below?

https://www.guitarcenter.com/iConnec...61202712467.gc

That said and if I saw it correctly, make sure you click the IO/routing button on the track and add a hardware send TO that proteus output...



Your MIO out should show up in the MIDI Hardware Output list (yellow). What I would also do as a test, is add an actual MIDI item on the track with some MIDI notes in it - it would be a great idea to test just Reaper-to-proteus and make sure that part is working first by hitting play and seeing if the notes in the MIDI item makes it to the proteus.

Ok I set the routing to the Mio.

I'll work on the second part of your suggestion (This might take a while...)

[karbomusic]

Originally Posted by Rob94hawk

I'll work on the second part of your suggestion (This might take a while...)

If that means the MIDI item, this is the likely a fast way...

Make a time selection with the track selected.
Insert > New Midi Item.
Double click the Midi item which will open the midi window for that item.
Draw a few notes by click/drag.
Close the window.
You should now have a midi item that sends midi to the proteus during playback - assuming we got the routing correct.

To make that even easier, if you CTRL+DOUBLE+CLICK the midi item it will make a time selection the size of the item.
Then on the transport bar enable the Loop feature, hit play and it will just continuously play that item over and over.

[Rob94hawk]

Originally Posted by karbomusic

If that means the MIDI item, this is the likely a fast way...

Make a time selection with the track selected.
Insert > New Midi Item.
Double click the Midi item which will open the midi window for that item.
Draw a few notes by click/drag.
Close the window.
You should now have a midi item that sends midi to the proteus during playback - assuming we got the routing correct.

To make that even easier, if you CTRL+DOUBLE+CLICK the midi item it will make a time selection the size of the item.
Then on the transport bar enable the Loop feature, hit play and it will just continuously play that item over and over.

Getting a midi signal on the Proteus when I play the virtual keyboard and sounds through the headset!

Edit: didn't see your second part so I'll try that.

[karbomusic]

Originally Posted by Rob94hawk

Getting a midi signal on the Proteus when I play the virtual keyboard and sounds through the headset!

Yay!

Edit: didn't see your second part so I'll try that.

It was a late edit, sorry bout that.

[Michael AD]

I'm coming to this late, but it might have been easier to spend $20 on this:

https://www.digitalsoundfactory.com/...-mu-proteus-2/

[mschnell]

Originally Posted by viscofisy

1)Is there a device which could convert USB midi to standard 5pin midi without going through a computer?_

I already answered -> https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...7&postcount=14

-Michael