Old 02-16-2019, 07:06 AM   #1
Eliseat
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Default How to automate preset changes?

Hi everybody,

I never ran into this problem before but for a project I need to present presets in a certain order. How could this be done? Can it even be done in automation?

To describe it a bit better: I want to run a drum loop while playing a synth with several preset changes (Reaper compatible). Those presets should be changed like I want, not only in the order they are saved (next/previous). IS there a way to achieve this?

Many thanks in advance.
Eli
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Old 02-16-2019, 11:53 AM   #2
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here's a pretty old thread i happened to find in one of my open chrome tabs. probably something newer available by now. something to play with though.

https://forum.cockos.com/showthread....37#post1531537

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Old 02-16-2019, 11:55 AM   #3
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This helps?
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=138805

edit:
I think it's the same method babag has linked...
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Old 02-17-2019, 01:42 AM   #4
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Many thanks to both of you. I will check the recommended threads right now.

Eli
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Old 02-17-2019, 03:13 AM   #5
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So there is no possibility to export or create a .reabank file from a VSTi? Since this is needed for program changes its kind of weird to being unable to create it somehow but manually.

I was a little bit naive thinking this should be a simple thing. And this all makes no sense to me. If I would create a reabank file manually with lots of presets - and if I would add or change presets as I do every day, then the reabank needs to be recreated per hand every time?

Hm, that's really demotivating.
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Old 02-17-2019, 07:00 AM   #6
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It's a text file. You can edit text files.
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Old 02-17-2019, 09:12 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philbo King View Post
It's a text file. You can edit text files.
I'm blonde but not stupid. Do you really think a simple - or should I say stupid - task like changing presets with automation should only be able by WRITING the presets in a text file manually if the ****ing list is already in the FX window ? And do you really think it is logical to edit this text file after EVERY change in the preset list aka adding or renaming?

Sorry, but this is "nerdy Reaper" at its best.

Why do we even need to create a stupid reabank file if the list could be taken directly from the FX window? For external hardware synths this makes sense. But for internal effects and instruments? Sorry. This feels like a nitpicking discussion with a city clerk at the office.

This is not against you, Philbo. I know you just wanted to help. It just seems so ... ¯\(°_o)/¯
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Old 02-17-2019, 12:51 PM   #8
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Wow I can't believe what a hassle that is either. How is it not a CC lane or something simple? However, live configs and lbx stripper both can switch presets, so maybe it's easier to get them to automate it?
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Old 02-17-2019, 04:15 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eliseat View Post
Can it even be done in automation?
Yep: "Slider to Midi PS" (in ReaPack) does exactly this.

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Old 02-17-2019, 06:29 PM   #10
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Just in case there's a misunderstanding, the .reabank file is not strictly required for changing presets, it just makes it easier as the presets can be selected and seen by names directly in the 'Bank / Program Select' controller lane.
You can also enter the preset/program number directly in the Bank/Program Select dialog, or use the 'Program' CC lane and draw the CCs in (but then you'd have to 'count' the existing presets so to say to get the correct preset / program number).

Last edited by nofish; 02-17-2019 at 06:38 PM.
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Old 02-18-2019, 06:21 AM   #11
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Sorry,

I was a bit excessive with my post. Usually I'm a very calm person but at the moment to many things stress me up.

Anyway. mschnell and nofish, I tested those "solutions" and they work kind of, but this can't be a serious answer to this question. I mean, you can put hundreds of presets into the preset list of your FX. With no number assigned. But then you only get a strict MIDI like tool with 128 slots for program changes? This seems like from the late 90ies.
If all those presets also would be in strict MIDI format, okay. But then only 128 per bank would be allowed. But there is no consistency. And no assigned numbers. It all just makes no sense to me. And especially the conflict between "make presets like hell in every Reaper FX" and "you only get a tool with 128 MIDI slots to change presets blindly because you have no idea which number they have" drives me crazy.

It should be default, that Reaper handles the intern program management with its own abilities. No MIDI restrictions or pseudo compatibility!
Just go to the MIDI editor, open the program changing lane, double click for an event AND get a list of all FX with presets in the FX chain -> choose the specific FX and finally get a list of all the presets. THIS would be consistent! And easy. And it would make little Elisa pretty happy.

Many thanks for your help.

I hope this gets optimized someday as its a bit embarrassing for a great DAW like REaper.
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Old 02-18-2019, 07:19 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eliseat View Post
It should be default, that Reaper handles the intern program management
???
Reaper can't know about the "intern program management" of any plugin available in the world. Reaper can only "see" the VST API, amnd know the common plugin independent specification of the VST API.

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Old 02-18-2019, 11:32 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
???
Reaper can't know about the "intern program management" of any plugin available in the world. Reaper can only "see" the VST API, amnd know the common plugin independent specification of the VST API.

-Michael
I'm not talking about internal presets. I'm talking about the presets compatible with Reaper itself. Aka rpl banks. Those presets are created with REapers [+] menu and are of course loaded with every plugin or instrument. And this means Reaper reads them out and also could use them at any other place if those FX are in a certain FX chain. Anything else wouldn't make any sense to me.

With "intern preset management" I meant those rpl banks. Presets which can be find in the drop down menu above every FX. As they have no limits and numbers like MIDI banks they also should handled in Reaper like "no limits and numbers". Sorry, if this was confusing. I'm not the best in English.
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Old 02-19-2019, 03:37 PM   #14
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If you look in the VSTi docs there is often a program and bank list you can copy & save.

Some even have .ins files, which are compatible with ReaControlMidi

.ins is a Sonar/Cakewalk format, also a text file, so it's worthwhile checking Cakewalk forums to see if there's one there.

If the instrument is widely used you should be able to find it on line without having to type it yourself.
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Old 02-20-2019, 05:35 AM   #15
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Many thanks. But I'm talking about a list I made myself. Not something official from a synth or effect with manufactured bank. I'm talking about the presets you create with Reaper. Though it seems no one uses them for a reason.

To clarify the case a bit more: I made many, many presets for Sai'ke's Filther and just wanted to show in a video what this plugin is capable of by presenting the best fitting presets to various genres.

Yes, I know. I could animate all parameters to meme those presets. But NO! That's not what I want. IF Reaper offers Reaper internal presets (rpl), it HAS TO offer a way to automate them too. I'm not talking about workarounds, plugins, scripts or anything else. Just plain automation of those presets saved from Reaper itself.

I mean: You can f**** automate just ANYTHING in Reaper. Every god damn parameter can be automated, controlled per other parameters or MIDI. But not the most obvious! WHY? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

There could be no compromises. To stay consistent, Reaper has to allow a way to change its own presets the same way they are saved: Without assigned numbers, without limited amount, without any MIDI restrictions as they don't take place in this case.

So please Cockos ...
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Old 02-20-2019, 08:01 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eliseat View Post
I'm not talking about internal presets. I'm talking about the presets compatible with Reaper itself.
To automate those, you can use LiveConfiigs (by SWS) to create a list of up to 128 "patches" containing presets to push to any plugin in any track.

To control LiveConfigs you need to sent a CC message to it in the Reaper Control Path.

To send something to the Reaper Control Path from a track you need to use the MidToReaControlPath.

To generate a CC from automation I suppose you can use ReaControlMidi (But you also can use "Slider to Midi PS" plus "MIDI Convert to CC" (both in ReaPack) ).

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Old 02-21-2019, 01:59 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
To automate those, you can use LiveConfiigs (by SWS) to create a list of up to 128 "patches" containing presets to push to any plugin in any track.

To control LiveConfigs you need to sent a CC message to it in the Reaper Control Path.

To send something to the Reaper Control Path from a track you need to use the MidToReaControlPath.

To generate a CC from automation I suppose you can use ReaControlMidi (But you also can use "Slider to Midi PS" plus "MIDI Convert to CC" (both in ReaPack) ).

-Michael
Thanks BUT:

- I have way more than 128 presets. Way more!
- My presets have no assigned numbers. So even if I would use those tools, they only offer numbers from 1 to 128. This means I would have to scroll thru all the presets blindly until I have found the right one. (The idea alone can't get taken seriously!)
- Reaper offers its own way to save presets for every FX. So it also should offer a way to automate those presets with a non restricted method.

You can't allow saving more than 300 presets (like me) for an FX in Reaper and then only allow to automate 128 of them thru outdated MIDI tools. This needs to be solved. And I will make a FR for that. Though it isn't a real feature request, it is more a matter of course!
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Old 02-21-2019, 07:05 AM   #18
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These tools are not at all outdated, they just are not crafted with exactly the purpose in mind that you seem to are up to and hence they of course seem clumsy.

As the task you have in mind supposedly is a very rarely used workflow, it obviously will never be implemented in the main program, but Reaper allows for scripts and extensions on that behalf.

Do I correctly understand that you want to push a new preset (that you stored by the means reaper provides for this on the "frame" of any FX window) at points in time you define with some track (similar to "automation" of some effect parameter), but not in a continuous way (as an automation curve) but "Hopping" from one preset to another one.

I understand that the patches are not supposed to be numbered in any way, but just named. How do you think you can associate the name of such a preset with a point in time ?

Named markers might be an option.

Now maybe a script can be done that "pushes" a patch that corresponds with the name of a marker reached by the play cursor.

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Old 02-21-2019, 10:20 AM   #19
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Many thanks for taking the time to understand what its all about.

I don't think its unusual to automate presets this way as it only could be as unusual as with MIDI program selections. And there is not such a big difference between the automation of MIDI program changes or the automation of Reaper preset changes. Both would do the same. But only the first one should be possible because its a MIDI default? Of course not!

If you go into the MIDI editor and choose the program select lane you can double click at a certain place in time to add a program/preset change.






I know, this is strictly MIDI dependent. But wouldn't it be easy to allow the listing not only of MIDI banks but also of all rpl preset lists of all FX plugin instances? If you then choose the one you want all the presets inside get displayed in the program list. And done!

Of course - as always in Reaper - this maybe could be done with a script. But this script would need to readout all those rpl presets of all FX plugins inside the track's FX chain. Not sure if this is possible.

Anyway. I just find it strange that everything is automatable and controllable but only Reapers presets not.

Quote:
Do I correctly understand that you want to push a new preset (that you stored by the means reaper provides for this on the "frame" of any FX window) at points in time you define with some track (similar to "automation" of some effect parameter), but not in a continuous way (as an automation curve) but "Hopping" from one preset to another one.

I understand that the patches are not supposed to be numbered in any way, but just named. How do you think you can associate the name of such a preset with a point in time ?
Yes, this is exactly what I mean. Hopping from one preset to a different but NOT the next in the list. The preset names are of course important in this case. And I think the workflow would look like this: Listening to the preset in the plugin itself, choosing the same preset name in the list for automation.

But I see, its a lot of discussion and describing for a thing, that most people don't think about. The problem is, there are thousands of things inside Reaper most people don't even think about.

Thanks for all your efforts to help me in this case.
Eli
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