Jesusonic/SStillwell FX vs. Voxengo, etc.

EnzymeX · 01-24-2007, 12:52 AM

Let's hear it: How many of you have abandoned your purchased VST FX for Jesusonic FX?

Golden ears and loose lips, speak now!!

Billoon · 01-24-2007, 02:20 AM

Damn straight!

Bundled( ie. no compatability probs), 64bit, awesome sounding, can edit/modify to taste...

What more do you want?

Someone mentioned it in another thread recently that they dont colour your audio, just proccess it as you set....this is one of the best things about them, they sound "clean".

I love 'em, thanks to eveyone that adds to the JS pool.

Jae.Thomas · 01-24-2007, 02:45 AM

I also would like to hear the "golden ears" of this forum comment on this. So far I have heard they have been used for a variety of purposes, but being a lover of the sound of voxengo and sonalksis plugs, i wouldnt mind hearing a comparison.

Paul · 01-24-2007, 03:15 AM

I must admit, I too am slowly ditching my rather expansive freeware collection in favour of JS, asides really from SIR which for some reason seems to work better (for me) than ReaVerb on my machine.

Although looks aren't the be all and end all and sound should be the only really consideration, I can't help think that a prettier interface for the existing plugs (with flashing lights, spinning bowties etc) would go a long way to move a lot of other users to JS also.

Just another thought (and apologies if its there as I've not looked at the manual for a while.....), maybe it would be worth Scott doing a JS page for the manual to say what the plugs do, and what they were based on, etc? I know a many of them are fairly obvious but I for one think that this would be useful.

Keep up the great work folks,

Paul

Jed · 01-24-2007, 03:31 AM

Me too - the JS plugs don't look fancy BUT sound fancy. The Sonitus plugs have been my staple but they are getting less and less use.

Cheers
Jed

bullshark · 01-24-2007, 05:17 AM

Well, not really Jesusonic, but native Reaper anyways:

Was about to buy Kjaerhus GAG-1, but then discovered Reagate did everything I needed a decent gate to do.

Then, I've been putting off buying Voxengo GlisseEQ because, so far, I've done what I needed using Reafir (and Posihfopit...); although I might end up buying GlisseEQ anyway because of the pretty cool comparative capability.

Then, I like to fool around with the multiple delays in the Jesusonic repertoire. Haven't used them in a finished tune, but were I to use a delay in a finished project I'll use those before buying a commercial one.

But honnestly, counting both the native and jesusonic effect coming with Reaper, I don't think I'll be buying software effects anytime soon. Mind you, I don't have "golden ears" so the finer point of high priced commercial plugs would be totally lost on me.

Gerry G · 01-24-2007, 06:30 AM

Do sharks have ears? Well they have taste & probably should have if they speak french. The Bull in the Bible had Bullion listeners. All due respect BS.

The serious question though is can you chain JS and Reaper plugs to get a beat matched or triggered repeat or delay a la Beat Reapeat? Wow I can speak french. I must have taste.

fluffy · 01-24-2007, 09:36 AM

Well, I don't mind telling you - I've gotten to the point that I use a bunch (particularly Scott's) of JS Fx an awful lot.

EventHorizon is really fantastic (make sure you don't hit the input too hard).

1073 hass been my go-to equalizer for a while now (stack 'em up if you need more bands). Make SURE you try 1073 on kick drum! IT RULES!

The new bass enhancers are just stunning, they'll see plenty of use from me. And DO try Scott's new Exciter, it'll really make you're snare jump out.

I must admit that lately I'm using my old trusty Sonitus Compressor a lot, but there can be very little doubt of how nice Scott's comps are. And there are several flavors to choose from, which is awfully nice. Fairlychildish is just fantastic - probably my favorite of the comps.

Not to even mention his saturators, and once again there are a few to choose, even multiband versions, which are glorious.

Also, make sure to try the JS guitar plugs. The ampsims are suprisingly good, and the latency is very low. The rest of the guitar plugs are pretty darned good too.

Need I even mention the ReaTools bundle?

One of my hopes for Reaper was that it would be, more or less, all inclusive. I thought it would be nice for a newbie to be able to buy Reaper and not need to buy anything else. I think it's pretty much gotten there.

Jae.Thomas · 01-24-2007, 09:46 AM

it is definetly a great feature of REAPER. I mean, what other software package at 40 dollars has a tuning utility (for instance)"?

chip mcdonald · 01-24-2007, 10:16 AM

I'd definitely prefer some sort of interface graphical look, simply because my visual memory drowns with a bunch of windows that looks the same...

I have a photographic memory, so I've always worked on remembering settings of plugins based on a "snapshot" of the way the interface looks; with all of them looking the same, it seems clunky to me.

I haven't gotten into a hard mixing stage with Reaper yet, but at the moment it's hard associating the names of some the plugins with exactly what they do because of the generic UI. It's easy enough with the self-descriptive names (the Fairchild), but... anyhow...

/ $.10

chip mcdonald · 01-24-2007, 10:20 AM

Actually, it occurs to me that for new users the UI makes Reaper look primitive, but also if a new user doesn't know what the paradigms are that the stilwell plugins reference, they are *really* going to have a hard time sorting through the FX list... "1073-ish" doesn't mean anything for a lot of people I would imagine...

Of course, allowing *skinnable fx* would be a cool innovation... although really I'd just like some sort of visual cue to keep settings clear in my mind, instead of a bunch of generic faders on a generic gray backdrop...

griz lee · 01-24-2007, 10:27 AM

If only JS had a "gain reduction" meter....

(then i'd have to stop using my ears, damn it).

fluffy · 01-24-2007, 10:30 AM

I agree, Griz. I think the interface is fine, with the exception of GR metering. The would certainly be very nice.

Although, Chips' points are definitely valid.

teej813 · 01-24-2007, 11:07 AM

I hate to admit this, but i can't make heads or tails out of FairlyChildish.

What's with all these buttons labeled Triggers?
Recompile?
Bias?

Huh?

Ok, so maybe i'm playing a bit dumb (just a bit), but i'd guess that many, like me, glanced at all these great plugs, said 'huh?', and never looked at them again.

Is it time for some of these gems to get a new, more user-friendly look?

tj

Bosky · 01-24-2007, 01:01 PM

I have to say, the JS Amp Sims are better than any freeware or pay plugs I've tried. Simple, great-sounding sims. Slap the Simulanalog DS-1, SD-1 or Tube Screamer sims on the front end and you've got some great tones. Or just use 'em straight for a nice clean sound. Anyone else agree?

Bevoss · 01-24-2007, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teej813

I hate to admit this, but i can't make heads or tails out of FairlyChildish.

What's with all these buttons labeled Triggers?
Recompile?
Bias?

tj

I'd have to add, I'd use these a lot more if there was some brief help file, I call some up and move a few sliders, end up closing them cause I really don't understand or have the time to sit there working it out. I've no idea what the triggers do either.

The ones I do use are great though, thanks Scott.

Timothy Lawler · 01-24-2007, 01:37 PM

Haven't tried more than one or two the Reaper plugs yet. The main plugins (non-Reaper) I use have great graphics for initial dialing-in of the sound - for instance Voxengo Soniformer, Wavers linear MB, and I've come to rely on that for speed of use. Of course fine tuning of parameters is all just ear-dependent but it would make the Reaper plugs easier to try out if the graphic aspects were more detailed. I have no doubt they sound good.

teej813 · 01-24-2007, 01:37 PM

whew! thanks, B. Glad i'm not the only one who needs a push start.

tj

jamester · 01-24-2007, 02:02 PM

I must admit I have not yet really checked out many of the included plugs. Partially because I'm still trying to test all the ones I already have and love, to make sure they play nice in Reaper (and so far so good).

I have a small but cherished collection of both freeware and commercial plugs, and I'm very much a go-with-what-you-know type of person. Having said that though, seeing how impressive Reaper is, I am very much open to the idea that these plugs might be just as impressive, and even take me away from some of my current faves!

I will say that I do like a bit of GUI in my plugs. Perhaps that's just needless, processor-consuming frivolity...but the artistic side of me takes pleasure in having a cool interface to look at while I work. I love Reaper's design, but I spent a looong time customizing colors to make a theme that satisfies me visually. I think this is also a part of the creative process...music isn't all cerbral, aesthetics are a factor imho.

Bosky · 01-24-2007, 02:08 PM

I agree with the calls for more user-friendly (novice friendly?) GUIs. In this age of computer-based recording, the visual aspect has, for better or worse, become important. I still use my ears as the judge, but my eyes definitely like some candy. Also, as was mentioned earlier, some sort of manual for each plug would be nice. Maybe some basic presets as well, just to show what the plug can do.

Serendipity · 01-24-2007, 02:26 PM

Yeah, I'm sure many experienced (and maybe not so experienced) users find these effects excellent, can relate to their names and know exactly what they do and how to use them, plain GUI or not. However, lots of people coming here might find them akward to use without any instructions or help files explaining things. I think some brief help for each plugin would go a long way for newbies and infrequent bedroom musicians like myself.

Jae.Thomas · 01-24-2007, 03:33 PM

i wouldnt say GUI is NESSECARY, but it is really nice. and it definetly helps with workflow.

Art Evans · 01-24-2007, 03:50 PM

Quote:

What's with all these buttons labeled Triggers?
Recompile?
Bias? What's with all these buttons labeled Triggers?
Recompile?
Bias?

You should find handy references way back in the forum if you search for those keywords - from the time when most of us were puzzled by them!

Bevoss · 01-24-2007, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Art Evans

You should find handy references way back in the forum if you search for those keywords - from the time when most of us were puzzled by them!

Would that be Jurassic or Cretaceous?

bigwoody · 01-24-2007, 04:31 PM

I'm gonna jump on the UI bandwagon, only because I am still learning what many of the settings actually do. Same thing most of the the names. As a novice to a lot of this stuff I don't have the historical perspective (but I'm trying to learn). Something that I tend to judge plugin VST's by is how helpful their patch set is (or if they even have one). I almost never end up using a pre-defined patch for my final setting, but having a place to start is a big help for me. Here is a possible alternative to fancy UI's (and all the overhead those bring). By including some patches or allowing the amazing folks on this forum to post some in a shared area more of us could appreciate the value of the JS, Stillwell and Looser effects. ?? Does the FXP paradigm work with the JS effects, under the "PreSet" Option???? Patchs with relative names like Hall, Church and Bathroom at least help me understand what the settings are trying to accomplish in a Reverb for example. Just a thought.

jamieskeen · 01-24-2007, 05:01 PM

I have put off buying glissEQ because of the JS effects. It would be nice to have a low cpu 4band full parametric eq though.
The loser plugs are not bad at all either, I get better performance from his vsts though...is the JS code not as fast as c++ or something?

marce · 01-24-2007, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigwoody

I'm gonna jump on the UI bandwagon, only because I am still learning what many of the settings actually do. Same thing most of the the names. As a novice to a lot of this stuff I don't have the historical perspective (but I'm trying to learn). Something that I tend to judge plugin VST's by is how helpful their patch set is (or if they even have one). I almost never end up using a pre-defined patch for my final setting, but having a place to start is a big help for me. Here is a possible alternative to fancy UI's (and all the overhead those bring). By including some patches or allowing the amazing folks on this forum to post some in a shared area more of us could appreciate the value of the JS, Stillwell and Looser effects. ?? Does the FXP paradigm work with the JS effects, under the "PreSet" Option???? Patchs with relative names like Hall, Church and Bathroom at least help me understand what the settings are trying to accomplish in a Reverb for example. Just a thought.

I agree with you that to have presets from factory makes all easy to start.

Billoon · 01-24-2007, 05:23 PM

I gotta say... i prefer the JS UI. When im looking at hardware, i see ratio, attack, release etc. Same with JS, you go straight to the paramater you want to adjust. No visual distraction....

Each to their own, as long as i can switch off any "eye candy", wont make any difference to me.

The thing i would agree with is making it easier for noobs to find what they want. eg. The FX could be subgrouped as EQ, Compress, Modulation etc. like they are now but a bit more obvious.

teej813 · 01-24-2007, 05:24 PM

hmmmmm... maybe this is an area where WE can pitch in and make Reaper better.

While i personally can't code a graphical UI for.. well.. anything, i COULD create presets for the effects i'm familiar with.

If enough of us upload presets, maybe Justin would add them to the Reaper install.

just a thought...

teej

pipelineaudio · 01-24-2007, 05:26 PM

Here is some clarification and some history, in response to some questions a ways on up the thread.

A lot of the internal fx and many of the JS were built to meet a shocking GAP in existing plugins IMHO.

Weve been recording, editing and mixing music on computers for a long time now, yet some of the very basics are absent. I chalk this up, for the most part, to marketing engineers designing these apps instead of audio engineers. For instance it wouldnt have taken 10 years to get sensible native input monitoring if audio engineers had their say.

Anyhow

If I were to pick one weapon with which to joust, which had all my personalities and truly felt like an extension of my own body, it would be the noisegate. I was truly bummed, coming to the computer way back when, to learn not only couldnt the plugin gates pull off the things computers would have allowed (brave new doors from the non linear future), they couldnt even pull off their analog tricks!!!

Gar-baaaaaaaage

ReaGate was built to do everything an analog gate could, including sophisticated filtering systems down to RMS windowing size. Negative AND Positive hysteresis. Kickass sidechainability.

Look ahead

REAL look ahead

Future facilities for signal and noise synthesis using the aux fader

Even a midi event output triggered by the gate!

ReaComp, likewise was built to cover an extremely versatile range. Soft to HARD, mushy to tubey to spanky. Warm, bright, smooth, crunchy, whatever

my

doesnt even have a power cable on it, because of reacomp. Its deection sectionis simlar to reagate...you can even throw in the included M/S plugs into the detector for some fairchild madnes!

ReaComp has barely began to be explored.

ReaFIR in gate or comp mode, is a plug so bizzarre yet useful, it really defies description

These things are powerful, but that isnt always the end of the story

Debates pop up from time to time about "the sound of a DAW" and how this one sounds better than that. Weve had enough studies to know, that in most cases, it aint the daw's summing engine making any difference

BUT

I believe peoples' perception of "the sound of a DAW" really subconciously comes down to how easily or possibly they could get the sound they wanted. You might not think about it up front, but you are likely to have a giant jump in confidence of an app, if you had a quick and easy time making it sound good!

With that in mind, a noob comp needed to be made. When you peruse sites giving compressor faq's you often read usless tripe like "4 db reduction" or " I had the guitars at 8:1"

Without the attack and release times, and knowledge of the waveforms themselves, this info is pretty useless\

One of the greatest, confidence building devices back in the day especially for young mixers, was the 2 U high 1/2U wide dbx 160.
YOu had an auto attack and release circuit, and you really DID just dial in the compression like the magzines and websites say.

Eneter Scottt Stillwell and his build of the MajorTom. Instead of being just a noob comp, its auto nature made it VERY musical, and able to follow dynamics in the song's tempo and energy level. More than a few of us use this comprehensively throughout our mixes! I sure do!!!

You can bet more necessary and more new, innovative JS and internal FX will appear

fluffy · 01-24-2007, 05:35 PM

Excellent post, pipe.

Also

TRUE TRUE TRUE TRUE TRUE .

Jae.Thomas · 01-24-2007, 05:36 PM

Quote:

I believe peoples' perception of "the sound of a DAW" really subconciously comes down to how easily or possibly they could get the sound they wanted.

excellent point, papa pipe!

Amether · 01-24-2007, 06:05 PM

Maybe at some point the idiots around here like me need to be sat down and shown "Right. You use the fairchild thingy for this. Try this. Or this." and then - same goes for new reaper features. Sometimes I don't feel I'm getting as much out of this program as I could (which is a lot anyway) because I just don't know that stuff actually exists...

mrelwood · 01-24-2007, 06:06 PM

Not sure if this was actually ment, but there are a few plugs I want to mention that *truely* are simple good sounding compressors.

Digitalfishphones Blockfish
CamelPhatFree (mono only) and the newer CamelCrusher

Timothy Lawler · 01-24-2007, 07:06 PM

My own interest in UI isn't about how it looks, but about having things like easy to read metering for the separate bands of a MB comp, showing level and gain reduction. Things that make it easy with a complex plug to start dialing it in. Don't care if it's pretty or not.

Timothy Lawler · 01-24-2007, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrelwood

Not sure if this was actually ment, but there are a few plugs I want to mention that *truely* are simple good sounding compressors.

Digitalfishphones Blockfish...

Agree about Blockfish. Especially nice as a limiter.

jamester · 01-24-2007, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrelwood

Not sure if this was actually ment, but there are a few plugs I want to mention that *truely* are simple good sounding compressors.

Digitalfishphones Blockfish
CamelPhatFree (mono only) and the newer CamelCrusher

SlimSlowSlider's free compressors are also quite noteworthy. But indeed, Blockfish and CamelCrusher get used in every project I work on...

Timothy Lawler · 01-24-2007, 07:19 PM

The C3 multiband comp by Slim Slow Slider is an excellent freebie, especially with the digital filters.

kenn · 01-24-2007, 07:25 PM

I agree with the comments about how good the JS effects are (I hafta book an evening or two to play with mr Stillwells new toys)... and how some GUI enhancements could make them more approachable.

We all know how darn much fun it's been to make and evaluate different Reaper skins... In my opinion it would be twice as much fun if Justin and Christophe could produce some sort of simple API for developing JS skins, displays and controls, and let us get busy with that.

I think most of us could get our heads around some sort of GUI scripting language, XML file, or simplified C/C++ API for doing this.

Just wishing out loud

Warpticon · 01-24-2007, 10:55 PM

Yeah, it's not always easy to navigate the plugin dialogue, and a lot of plug names, included or otherwise, aren't exactly self-explanatory--that's why I made the feature request ages ago for more detailed sorting abilities (namely, subfolders in the "My Folders" section.) As it is, if I wanted to sort into folders, I'd probably end up with fourty to fifty folders to search through--only marginally better. And then, the folders are always in exactly the order they were created in, with no options for changing without deleting the folder. Such a harsh limitation on such an open-ended feature in such an open-ended program. Nobody seemed to care when I made my FR, though. Maybe I should resubmit it.