Old 10-27-2017, 12:09 PM   #1
pipelineaudio
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Default 12" Coaxial Speaker

I'm thinking of replacing a 12" guitar speaker with a 12" coaxial for FRFR, any good recommendations for a 100 watter?

Any reason why this is an extremely stupid idea?
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Old 10-27-2017, 02:05 PM   #2
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Aside from the fact that everything that comes out of the tweeter portion of that speaker is likely to sound like complete ass?


It might not necessarily have been on purpose that the first guitar amps used just woofers, and if you were only playing completely clean it probably won't be too bad (the pickups won't pass much real treble anyway), but once you start overdriving, those higher harmonics are nothing but harsh fizzy nasty grossness that almost nobody wants to hear.


Are you in an industrial band, or deliberately looking for that "DI distortion pedal" sound? Trying to use it for a piezo-equipped acoustic? If not, you probably will end up cutting the wires that go to the tweeter.


But aside from that, guitar speakers tend to be much more robust and heavy duty than comparable sized hi-fi speakers and are much more likely to withstand the rigors both of being hauled around and of being slammed by a distorted amp. Guitar amps are speced funny, and a 100W amp that's really heavily overdriven could really be dropping close to if not more than that full 100W as continual RMS power. It takes a pretty serious speaker to handle that.
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Old 10-27-2017, 02:32 PM   #3
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I figured he was using a SIM hence FRFR.
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Old 10-27-2017, 03:34 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
I figured he was using a SIM hence FRFR.
Duh. Yeah. Still wouldn't be my choice, though.

Guitar amps aren't built to be flat even with full range drivers. Not meant to be clean either, especially at the hotter line levels that come out of a sim. Then the cab you're putting the speaker in will definitely have its own resonances and things. With a cab sim, it probably won't be as bad as my first post (unless/until you overdrive the amp itself), but it probably won't sound much like whatever amp/cab you're trying to simulate.
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Old 10-27-2017, 04:16 PM   #5
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I got it exactly how I want thru the recording interface and through a PA, now I want a combo I can carry around that sounds like those. Probably best to just get a small QSC 12 powered PA speaker, better idea
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Old 10-30-2017, 05:02 PM   #6
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If money wasn't tight I would go for a Dynacord AXM 12A. Coax is nice.

Other folk like the Atomic CLR, or Friedman ASM12.

In terms of availability and general usefulness, though, I reckon you can't go wrong with a QSC K12 (or even K10). I have used them a lot as monitors, and they tick all my boxes.

I think ashcat may never have heard a Kemper through FRFR. If you want to read endless bickering about what is the best FRFR monitor, head over to the Kemper forum.

My 10c worth is that anything you would use as a good quality vocal foldback will do you just fine as a guitar FRFR.
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Old 10-30-2017, 05:09 PM   #7
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I think ashcat may never have heard a Kemper through FRFR.
Nobody said anything about Kemper or any other kind of sim. The only clue was FRFR, and I just plain missed that reference. I get it now, but I still don't think just putting a full range speaker in a guitar amp is the best way to go.
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Old 10-30-2017, 07:59 PM   #8
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Probably right, the one I was planning on sticking it in was an open back combo, and now thinking about just how much design goes into a full range PA speaker, it could be pretty bad.

I gave a try to a Mackie 300A powered PA speaker and THAT actually sounded pretty good! I just don't like how tall or bulky it is, but it can lay on its side like a monitor.

Right now I'm trying to fix a broken Bassman 150 Combo someone gave me, it has a 12", a tweeter, a ported cabinet and it can lat straight or wedge style, has XLR outs, all the goodies for this
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Old 10-30-2017, 08:53 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
I got it exactly how I want thru the recording interface and through a PA, now I want a combo I can carry around that sounds like those. Probably best to just get a small QSC 12 powered PA speaker, better idea
Didn't Dweezil play through a pair of QSC's a few years back? I always wondered how he pulled that off...
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Old 10-31-2017, 09:00 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashcat_lt View Post
but I still don't think just putting a full range speaker in a guitar amp is the best way to go.
An actual guitar amp, yes, agreed. A guitar modeler or profiler like Kemper, on the other hand, is usually much better on a FRFR.
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Old 10-31-2017, 09:44 AM   #11
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Yes, I'm aware. What I'm saying is that a coaxial speaker in a typical guitar cabinet is NOT FRFR. One of those Fs stand for Flat, and most guitar cabs aren't.
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Old 11-01-2017, 01:53 AM   #12
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I'm not even aware of any guitar cabinets that are coaxials? So not sure where you got that one from. In any case, of course any guitar cab is not gonna be FRFR, that's beside the point here.
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Old 11-01-2017, 08:10 AM   #13
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In any case, of course any guitar cab is not gonna be FRFR, that's beside the point here.
Usually when you replace a 12" guitar speaker, it's in a gtr cab so you and ashcat are essentially agreeing - I suppose there is the point of the speaker being FRFR and the reason for putting it a gtr cab isn't but if someone says FRFR there is a reasonable expectation that is end-to-end, not just the speaker - because the SIM is replicating that too.
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Old 11-02-2017, 02:43 AM   #14
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I'm not looking for a coaxial guitar cabinet, I was looking for a coax speaker. I see a couple of kind of cool looking coax wedge monitors
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Old 11-02-2017, 05:50 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
I'm not looking for a coaxial guitar cabinet
Yeah, I get that. I'm not sure if such a thing even exists.
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Old 11-02-2017, 10:56 AM   #16
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Thinking about this one. https://www.americanmusical.com/Item...BoCLaEQAvD_BwE
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Old 11-02-2017, 11:05 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
I'm not looking for a coaxial guitar cabinet, I was looking for a coax speaker.
Yea, but when you said "I want to 'replace' a 12 inch guitar speaker" I assumed in was mounted in .....
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Old 11-02-2017, 11:10 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
Yea, but when you said "I want to 'replace' a 12 inch guitar speaker" I assumed in was mounted in .....
Yeah, that was my initial idea, but after you said it it made me think about the fact that its a whole system and an open back guitar cab was probably a recipie for phasey cranky nastiness
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