Old 01-09-2018, 03:08 PM   #1
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Default Fletcher Munson compensation

Is there a dedicated plugin or a dynamic EQ that can do a Fletcher Munson compensation?
Thanks in advance
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Old 01-09-2018, 03:23 PM   #2
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As in simulating your ears being pummeled at high volume for a mix element? ie. Make a mix element 'bangin' loud?

Roll back the high end with eq and distort/saturate. Roll back the lows as needed too.
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Old 01-09-2018, 05:44 PM   #3
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As in simulating your ears being pummeled at high volume for a mix element? ie. Make a mix element 'bangin' loud?

Roll back the high end with eq and distort/saturate. Roll back the lows as needed too.
If he wants to simulate F-M @ higher volumes, he wants the opposite of that (sounds brighter and bassier to our ears @ higher volumes) but the better method is to just turn it up every so often and check.

The usual advice is to mix at pretty low volumes and if one can make it sound great at the lower volume, it'll sound great louder which is good advice. However, most pro mixers don't advise that you never actually listen and check at higher levels.
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Old 01-09-2018, 06:03 PM   #4
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Many hi-fi systems have a loudness button suppose to do roughly that, and Yamaha had a variable "loudness" system on some of their hi-fi amps that was variable with the volume setting. Certainly an interesting idea for a plugin.

It could get complicated if you want to do more than a rough adjustment based on how loud your amp is turned up, because of varying levels of different frequencies in the source material that are constantly changing.
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Old 01-09-2018, 06:06 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by drumphil View Post
Many hi-fi systems have a loudness button suppose to do roughly that, and Yamaha had a variable "loudness" system on some of their hi-fi amps that was variable with the volume setting. Certainly an interesting idea for a plugin.

It could get complicated if you want to do more than a rough adjustment based on how loud your amp is turned up, because of varying levels of different frequencies in the source material that are constantly changing.
I haven't seen a loudness button in like "foreva" but that is correct.

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because of varying levels of different frequencies in the source material that are constantly changing.
I'm not sure that matters since they are always changing in every scenario.
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Old 01-09-2018, 06:10 PM   #6
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Lol, the amp running the KEF speakers in my lounge room has it...

But it's a Technics amp from 1984
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Old 01-09-2018, 06:12 PM   #7
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Lol, the amp running the KEF speakers in my lounge room has it...

But it's a Technics amp from 1984
No doubt, I think I have a nice 1980s receiver in the attic that may have it. It just really took me back when I saw you use the term. My Crown PS-200 that I use with my old Dynaco A10s is the only older gear like that that I have in normal use - they are my "Old Timey Stereo System Mix Checkers" when I sort of want to jam out on a mix instead of mix a mix.
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Old 01-09-2018, 06:13 PM   #8
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I'm not sure that matters since they are always changing in every scenario.
What I'm saying is you would need to use FFT to break the signal down into frequency bands, and then adjust them using the FM curve based on their loudness. The plugin would also need knowledge of the volume the speakers were putting into the room as a starting point to determine how far up and down the scale a certain level at a certain frequency was.
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Old 01-09-2018, 06:19 PM   #9
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What I'm saying is you would need to use FFT to break the signal down into frequency bands, and then adjust them using the FM curve based on their loudness. The plugin would also need knowledge of the volume the speakers were putting into the room as a starting point to determine how far up and down the scale a certain level at a certain frequency was.
Oh yea, the original quesiton, I was already going on about measuring the effect or rather the effect of turning the volume knob, not generating it. I'm curious as to why they want this, since I'd advise turning it up from time to time and just listening. Maybe they have strict requirements where they are as far as noise, roommates, neighbors et al.
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Old 01-09-2018, 06:25 PM   #10
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Assuming there aren't any drawbacks or gotchas that I haven't thought of, I can't see why it wouldn't be a good thing to have in general. It's just a frequency response compensation, like we might do for a room, but variable due to the variable frequency response of humans at different volume levels.

Even if you turn the mix up, there might still be quiet sections, and your perception of the relative levels of different frequencies is going to be different for those bits.
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Old 01-09-2018, 06:30 PM   #11
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Assuming there aren't any drawbacks or gotchas that I haven't thought of, I can't see why it wouldn't be a good thing to have in general. It's just a frequency response compensation, like we might do for a room, but variable due to the variable frequency response of humans at different volume levels.
I suppose but if I can just turn the same knob I always do already, I can't find much reason not to as just turning it up leaves zero room for error. I also think there is some value to hearing it like it really is at whatever level it is aka work with FM instead of against it so to speak but I'm sure we are straying off topic.

This is from a mixing perspective, not a listening or enjoyment perspective FYI.
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Old 01-09-2018, 06:34 PM   #12
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I can't find much reason not to as just turning it up leaves zero room for error.
Well, there is no volume you can turn it up to where the response is flat.
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Old 01-09-2018, 06:35 PM   #13
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Well, there is no volume you can turn it up to where the response is flat.
Mr. Pedantic. I know, I mean error between the actual thing and the simulated thing. I'd rather what I monitor when I make mixing decisions be what it is at that level because I'm aware of those levels and those differences after decades of mixing, that consistency and awareness has value when making mixing decisions.
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Old 01-09-2018, 06:37 PM   #14
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Certainly interesting to think about anyway. I wonder how hard it would be to code a prototype in JS? I might have to have a muck around with it.
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Old 01-09-2018, 06:40 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drumphil View Post
Certainly interesting to think about anyway. I wonder how hard it would be to code a prototype in JS? I might have to have a muck around with it.
I don't know but since I have a hard line drawn between my coding and my music making (I must not cross the streams LOL) I certainly help you beta test it. It is academically interesting for sure.
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Old 01-09-2018, 06:42 PM   #16
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If I actually manage to come up with something I'll let you know.
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Old 01-09-2018, 06:44 PM   #17
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Default Feltcher Munchin

I avoid the Feltcher Munchin effect by taking a roofie so I can forget the night.

Sorry...... couldn't resist......

mod....feel free to delete if I've crossed a line.

Last edited by blumpy; 01-09-2018 at 07:03 PM.
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Old 01-09-2018, 07:15 PM   #18
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lolz-such waffle is tasty--- forget it--that set of curves was just a guesstimation dating back 1933..been reavised since perhaps...people are not the same now or never were and equiptments changed quite drastically.
People do not have to stick to any pre-definitions--people can define their own if they think more FOR themselves= amen.
Many new theories are actually comming from happy mistakes--it's fine to try _newer_ ideas. =)
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Old 01-09-2018, 07:18 PM   #19
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Quote:
Sorry...... couldn't resist......

mod....feel free to delete if I've crossed a line.
Fear not-let your ideas and input flow eh''
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Old 01-09-2018, 09:24 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
If he wants to simulate F-M @ higher volumes, he wants the opposite of that (sounds brighter and bassier to our ears @ higher volumes) but the better method is to just turn it up every so often and check.

The usual advice is to mix at pretty low volumes and if one can make it sound great at the lower volume, it'll sound great louder which is good advice. However, most pro mixers don't advise that you never actually listen and check at higher levels.
I'm sorry, I wrote that completely backwards!
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Old 01-10-2018, 02:06 AM   #21
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Iirc toneboosters morphit has the fletcher Munson curve (or its inverse? Don’t remember exactly, been a while since I demo’d it)
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Old 01-10-2018, 02:25 AM   #22
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This lil pup in "loud" mode
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