Old 03-12-2019, 08:49 AM   #1
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Default v5.973+dev0312(a) - March 12 2019

v5.973+dev0312a - March 12 2019

# MIDI editor: fix scroll offset when drawing CC lanes


v5.973+dev0312 - March 12 2019

+ API: add support for getting/setting CC envelope shapes
+ Audio Units: fix plug-in compatability issue in 5.97 [t=218049]
+ Audio Units: report recording state if requested
+ Continuous scrolling: improve item button hit testing
+ MIDI: add separate user preference for MIDI interpolation PPQ on playback when using CC envelopes
+ Marquee zoom: fix issues with tracks that have locked height [t=218144]
+ Notation editor: fix inconsistent behavior when editing notation in non-active media item [t=218310]
+ Performance: fix UI lag introduced in 5.972
+ VST3: do not show non-automatable parameters in last-tweaked menu [t=217809]
# MIDI editor: fix looped CC envelope drawing
# MIDI editor: restore mouse modifier to edit selected CC events if any, otherwise draw
# MIDI: support CC envelope interpolation on playback for channel pressure

Full changelog / Latest pre-releases

Last edited by nofish; 03-12-2019 at 10:51 AM.
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Old 03-12-2019, 09:12 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovnis View Post
Bugs with CC :
Ah .. does the media item have a start offset (nonzero start in source) in all of these cases?

Sorry, never mind, it has to do with the scroll offset. Fixing for immediate re-build, sorry...

... should be fixed now!

Last edited by schwa; 03-12-2019 at 09:40 AM.
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Old 03-12-2019, 10:02 AM   #4
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Thanks for reverting the mouse modifier - it is really great now, I would say!

Can something be done on editing the velocity lollipops (as per suggestions in previous dev build threads)? It remains the most annoying thing to edit in the MIDI editor, I would say. So, showing the note length on the lollipop itself (that is a REALLY good feature of FL studio, because you don't need to force your eyes to travel all the time between note area and velocity area to check for lengths of notes!), and being able to separately target velocities of particular notes in a chord (when all notes have exactly the same start time) without collapsing all the notes in the chord to the same velocity (SUPER annoying!), or forcing you to select a note first to specifically edit its velocity (tedious)...

Of course one could always just edit velocity directly on the note, but you're not always working from there, sometimes the focus is on the velocity lane, and stuff like this should be effortless...

Last edited by EvilDragon; 03-12-2019 at 10:09 AM.
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Old 03-12-2019, 10:21 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nofish View Post
v5.973+dev0312 - March 12 2019
+ Notation editor: fix inconsistent behavior when editing notation in non-active media item [t=218310]

Still getting this crash when trying to edit text in non-active item. I am using notation in continuous view with multiple items visible. It does not crash each time, usually several tries are necessary.

Code:
 Problem Event Name:    APPCRASH
  Application Name:    reaper.exe
  Application Version:    5.100.7.108
  Application Timestamp:    5c87d95a
  Fault Module Name:    ntdll.dll
  Fault Module Version:    6.1.7601.23807
  Fault Module Timestamp:    5915f8e8
  Exception Code:    c0000005
  Exception Offset:    0002e064
  OS Version:    6.1.7601.2.1.0.256.1
  Locale ID:    1051
  Additional Information 1:    0c47
  Additional Information 2:    0c47ecc18b31d3b3d50c3a36f49e3b09
  Additional Information 3:    078a
  Additional Information 4:    078a2a37e2bb646dc858be6e2ab3796a
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Old 03-12-2019, 10:36 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
Ah .. does the media item have a start offset (nonzero start in source) in all of these cases?

Sorry, never mind, it has to do with the scroll offset. Fixing for immediate re-build, sorry...

... should be fixed now!
Could it be related: https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?p=2106830 ?
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Old 03-12-2019, 10:39 AM   #7
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Bugs (Reaper updated) :
When I try to move only one point :
https://stash.reaper.fm/35771/1.gif

When I try to move one point :
https://stash.reaper.fm/35772/2.gif
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Old 03-12-2019, 10:42 AM   #8
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Ovnis the bughunter is back !

(The velocity thing you're showing in the first GIF is exactly what I've been talking about in this and previous dev build thread )
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Old 03-12-2019, 11:02 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Can something be done on editing the velocity lollipops (as per suggestions in previous dev build threads)? It remains the most annoying thing to edit in the MIDI editor, I would say. So, showing the note length on the lollipop itself (that is a REALLY good feature of FL studio, because you don't need to force your eyes to travel all the time between note area and velocity area to check for lengths of notes!), and being able to separately target velocities of particular notes in a chord (when all notes have exactly the same start time) without collapsing all the notes in the chord to the same velocity (SUPER annoying!), or forcing you to select a note first to specifically edit its velocity (tedious)...
Let me add to this. I know that there's the option to "Edit previous note within current grid division", but this is not good enough. This option should not depend on grid division IMHO, it should just use the whole space between the current event and the next event.

Why? Say we have grid set to 1/4, but your note event is close to the end of a beat. This option is useless then, because you can only use what little is left until the next 1/4 grid division happens - this is not a relative edit, so it's not 1/4 FROM the note event.

I also noticed this peculiarity happening. Seems to happen only on selected notes (grid division set to 1/4):

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Old 03-12-2019, 11:13 AM   #10
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It would be a good idea to have a "Mouse modifier/MIDI CC segment/Insert CC evendt, drag to move" which behaves exaclty like "Mouse modifier/Envelope segment/Insert Envelope point, drag to move".

Actually, when we insert a new MIDI CC point, it will not always create a new point on the existing segment without modified it.

Expected behaviour :


Actual behaviour :
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Old 03-12-2019, 12:26 PM   #11
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It would be nice to be able to always see the MIDI CC envelopes (even if there is no envelope point).

We should be able to always know the MIDI CC data and in the case of the pitch envelope, it would be easy to create pitch point at 0.

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Old 03-12-2019, 01:30 PM   #12
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Yes to that, but definitely should be more transparent when outside of MIDI item, maybe?
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Old 03-12-2019, 02:38 PM   #13
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yes !
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Old 03-12-2019, 05:29 PM   #14
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CC envelope bugs.

Issues with the eraser :

The eraser zone is not accurate.


When I try to delete one point, an another point is deleted.


Issue when I select one point :
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Old 03-13-2019, 12:00 AM   #15
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It seems that CC shapes cannot yet be set for any of the LSB lanes (32 - 63). Even if a shape is set for a 14-bit CCs, the LSB part remains square.

EDIT: If the LSB CCs contribute to smooth ramps of 14bit CCs, their values will not also be a smooth ramp, and will instead be a messy zigzag, so perhaps it is better to exclude them from 14bit CC ramps. This does mean, however, that 14bit CC ramps are not as hi-res as users might expect.


Quote:
Originally Posted by nofish View Post
+ API: add support for getting/setting CC envelope shapes
The new API functions work perfectly for most of the new CC shapes -- except that Bézier tension does not seem to be included yet.

Last edited by juliansader; 03-13-2019 at 09:54 AM.
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Old 03-13-2019, 01:42 AM   #16
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I'm thinking about this from sometime now. It would be nice to have the option to show envelope value visible on the points of the envelope, like some kind of label.


I'm thinking about something like this for example.


Thank you.
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Old 03-13-2019, 04:48 AM   #17
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Having some issues with the CC envelopes.

I'm using a script to trigger a JSFX into sending CC values.

Before with the old bar CC's - if I adjusted my CC slider in my script - if I leave it a few seconds on one value - then change the value - you get the expected change where the value stays the same until it gets the new value (square shape). With the new envelopes - I end up with a long slope between the last CC value captured and the current one (a few seconds later) triggered via the slider.

I have checked that the option for default CC shape for new CC events is set to square.

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Old 03-13-2019, 10:06 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DANIELE View Post
I'm thinking about this from sometime now. It would be nice to have the option to show envelope value visible on the points of the envelope, like some kind of label.


I'm thinking about something like this for example.


Thank you.
For me, it should be better if the label appears only when the mouse cursor is above the point.
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Old 03-13-2019, 10:34 AM   #19
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Channel pressure seems to interpolate fine now. And the LSB issue with pitch bend is fixed as far as I can tell, it sounds as played now .
Recorded CC events will still be set to linear although default shape is square. I don't think that's good, it at least should be optional.

CC64 Sustain pedal has special handling. It always gets recorded as square events (which is ok with me) but it lacks the curve settings in event properties, so we won't be able to use the new CC curves with instruments which allow for smooth pedalling. We must use the old many-events method for these. I understand the convenience for the majority of use cases with CC64, but it feels very restrictive. After all, CC64 is just another controller number which could control anything.
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Old 03-13-2019, 11:16 AM   #20
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CC64 should NOT use only square shape. There are piano plugins which can recognize continous sustain pedal, which means not only "square" changes.
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Old 03-13-2019, 11:23 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
CC64 should NOT use only square shape. There are piano plugins which can recognize continous sustain pedal, which means not only "square" changes.
Yep, second that.
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Old 03-13-2019, 11:24 AM   #22
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Yep. Don't get me wrong, they still get recorded in full resolution as before and you can still edit the old way. But they don't benefit from the new curves.
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Old 03-13-2019, 11:26 AM   #23
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Quote:
+ VST3: do not show non-automatable parameters in last-tweaked menu [t=217809]
This is the "Envelopes for track x" window? Can we get an option for "Show automated FX parameters only", please?
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Old 03-13-2019, 11:26 AM   #24
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"Edit selected CC if any, otherwise draw/edit" is acting up on me:



- Where I click horizontally will determine the last event that will move at all. All events to the right will be ignored.
- Where I click vertically will determine the value of the last affected event if I happen to drag further right.

"Edit selected CC if any, otherwise draw/edit ignoring snap" will additionally refuse to draw new events when no CC are selected.
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Old 03-13-2019, 11:27 AM   #25
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"Freehand draw CC" can edit events on unrelated lanes if there are existing events on the active channel. It's related to the direction of mouse movement here as well:
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Old 03-13-2019, 12:20 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daxliniere View Post
This is the "Envelopes for track x" window? Can we get an option for "Show automated FX parameters only", please?
No, that is for "Param" button in FX window header.
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Old 03-13-2019, 01:38 PM   #27
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Quote:
CC64 should NOT use only square shape. There are piano plugins which can recognize continous sustain pedal, which means not only "square" changes.

hmm-if it's a toggle then a toggle it is--is'nt this why there is also a soft pedal cc for that?
it depends on how the plugin makers make these things to begin--some are remapable-some are hard coded toggles..so..
just hope this gets done 'right'...especially with midi2 just around the corner..are cockos onboard yet?
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Old 03-13-2019, 03:35 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bri1 View Post
hmm-if it's a toggle then a toggle it is--is'nt this why there is also a soft pedal cc for that?
it depends on how the plugin makers make these things to begin--some are remapable-some are hard coded toggles..so..
just hope this gets done 'right'...especially with midi2 just around the corner..are cockos onboard yet?
CC 64 is not a toggle. In some (most) virtual instruments the sustain pedal parameter is a toggle, but the CC is a fully fledged 7bit CC message and it should be possible to handle it as such. There is no reason why it should not benefit from the new features as well.
It is a commonly used articulation on a piano to hold the sustain pedal at different amounts between not pressed and full down, to keep a touch of the dampers on the strings. And you can press or lift it rather slow instead of in an instant. As said, some plugins support it, most don't. Plus you could also want to control any other device and parameter, maybe the intensity of a stage light, heat of your toaster or even a filter cutoff frequency.
Soft pedal is a completely different thing.

Last edited by gofer; 03-13-2019 at 03:43 PM.
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Old 03-13-2019, 03:51 PM   #29
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heh- subservient infos ... i think reason does well with it all..as it uses both types of bars+curves...that is all.
+ it does'nt confuse the crap outta users as it's fairly logical in practice.
before using reaper-- had never come across a note off velocity lane anywhere?? what's the purpose of it? it's either on or off_no ? ...seems daft to me--but i am daft.. but not daft enough to find an actual use for it tbh..
+ have no need to control a toaster with or without cc-how many controllers does 1 actually need in practice?- if it's for lighting setups etc--surely that's all handled per channel_per lane?
reaper makes a lot of sense imo-but a whole load of nonsense as well..imo.

Last edited by Bri1; 03-13-2019 at 03:56 PM. Reason: doh
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Old 03-13-2019, 03:57 PM   #30
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Î can't find a translation for "subservant", what does it mean?

Edit: Ah, subservient, got it, but what are you saying with it?


Off velocity is very useful. For example you can let kontakt play the release sample with this velocity. IOW, you can have a soft release sound triggered when you lift the finger slowly, and something completely different when you lift it fast.

How many controllers you need obviously depends on what you want to control. For a toaster probably not that many

Last edited by gofer; 03-13-2019 at 04:10 PM.
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Old 03-13-2019, 06:10 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bFooz View Post
Still getting this crash when trying to edit text in non-active item. I am using notation in continuous view with multiple items visible. It does not crash each time, usually several tries are necessary.

Code:
 Problem Event Name:    APPCRASH
  Application Name:    reaper.exe
  Application Version:    5.100.7.108
  Application Timestamp:    5c87d95a
  Fault Module Name:    ntdll.dll
  Fault Module Version:    6.1.7601.23807
  Fault Module Timestamp:    5915f8e8
  Exception Code:    c0000005
  Exception Offset:    0002e064
  OS Version:    6.1.7601.2.1.0.256.1
  Locale ID:    1051
  Additional Information 1:    0c47
  Additional Information 2:    0c47ecc18b31d3b3d50c3a36f49e3b09
  Additional Information 3:    078a
  Additional Information 4:    078a2a37e2bb646dc858be6e2ab3796a
Did you mention something about a script running too?
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Old 03-13-2019, 09:03 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin View Post
Did you mention something about a script running too?

I did but I got also crashes when it was not running. It seems to be solved in the current 5.973+dev0313 though.
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Old 03-15-2019, 12:10 AM   #33
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Guys, what's up with envelope transition time when recording? I don't get the 1 ms value I am using everywhere when recording automation from boolean controls (buttons, switches).



Those are the settings, and this is what I get when recording directly from the GUI by toggling the button on the GUI on/off a few times:




That doesn't look like 1 ms transition time to me. I get this with a bunch of plugins, so it doesn't seem to be plugin-specific. Or is this "transition time" supposed to be something else entirely - please feel free to correct me if I'm on the wrong train of thought about this!

Last edited by EvilDragon; 03-15-2019 at 12:15 AM.
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Old 03-17-2019, 12:07 AM   #34
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Any comments on the above, devs? Anyone?
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Old 03-18-2019, 11:09 PM   #35
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Justin, schwa? Any info about the above? Why isn't the transition time 1 ms as I set it up when automating a button?
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Old 03-18-2019, 11:32 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Thanks for reverting the mouse modifier - it is really great now, I would say!

Can something be done on editing the velocity lollipops (as per suggestions in previous dev build threads)? It remains the most annoying thing to edit in the MIDI editor
Hi EvilDragon,

I'm not sure I agree with this. There is one really handy part of the lollipop type velocities. This allows the user to select only the higher or lower velocity with a marquee selection. That's not possible when the velocities are bars.

I agree that the lollipop look isn't quite as visually snazzy as the bars but functionality is great so far. I haven't run into anything that was specifically annoying other than it looking a little different. I mostly use key command actions and the midi editor to adjust groups of velocities. Is there any specific annoying cases you've run into?

I'm also not sure I agree that the note length thing from Fruity Loops. If we're wanting to see the notes we look at the notes in the editor, If we want to see the velocities we look at the velocity lane. I personally think it would clutter the velocity lane to have extra length bars added on.


I know the Dev team has stated that they don't want to support two different ways for the CC lane to work (blocks or envelopes). I totally understand that as this would be a major overhaul and the envelopes are clearly a superior way of working.

The velocity display may be considered more like a visual preference. Similar to note colors. Perhaps a compromise would be that all these additions to the velocity lane should be check box options in preferences or when the user right clicks on the velocity lane. This way people can work either way and it's not as drastic of a change like CC envelopes.
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Old 03-19-2019, 12:03 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srdmusic View Post
I'm not sure I agree with this. There is one really handy part of the lollipop type velocities. This allows the user to select only the higher or lower velocity with a marquee selection. That's not possible when the velocities are bars.
Where do you see me arguing that velocities should be bars? Nowhere did I say that. There are certain velocity editing behaviors that are NOT smooth, that's all I'm arguing that should change to be smoother. I even provided GIFs to explain what I mean (in the previous prerelease thread).
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Old 03-19-2019, 02:36 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Where do you see me arguing that velocities should be bars? Nowhere did I say that. There are certain velocity editing behaviors that are NOT smooth, that's all I'm arguing that should change to be smoother. I even provided GIFs to explain what I mean (in the previous prerelease thread).
Ah! My bad. I see your GIFs from the previous thread. Yeah, that could be smoothed out.
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Old 03-25-2019, 06:44 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Justin, schwa? Any info about the above? Why isn't the transition time 1 ms as I set it up when automating a button?
And once again, please some reply on the above findings regarding automation return time. Am I misunderstanding something there? Why does a click on a button produce such a long ramp, when it's a simple on/off toggle?
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Old 03-25-2019, 06:53 AM   #40
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What are you automating exactly? Automation return speed controls this:


Last edited by schwa; 03-25-2019 at 07:02 AM.
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