Old 12-31-2016, 12:54 AM   #1
ReaDave
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Default Valhalla 3D Ambisonic Reverb

After quite some trial and error with various techniques to arrive at a genuine Ambisonic B Format reverb using Valhalla reverbs, I finally put something together that works.

This track template can be used in Ambisonic mixes to achieve genuine, three dimensional, B Format reverb with width, height and depth input and output. If you solo the reverb, you'll hear all your directional and panning cues in the reverb mix.

I've used a bunch of channel mixing techniques, M/S decode and encode and level correcting JS plugins (all stock REAPER plugins) in combination with three instances of (in this first template), Valhalla Vintage Verb. Every parameter for adjusting the reverb is linked so all that is necessary is to adjust the first instance of VVV and the other two will follow. This includes selecting presets too.

The track template uses 16 audio channels. Channels 1-4 are the B Format input and output, channels 5-8 are X (front/back) reverb, channels 9-12 are Y (left/right) reverb and channels 13-16 are Z (up/down) reverb. EDIT - Those channel arrangements are for the older FuMa format. Blue Ripple Sound have just released their new SN3D updates which have the channel arrangements as WYZX. This is directly compatible with YouTube 360 and Facebook VR. These track templates will work with both arrangements without modification. Channels 5-16 are mixed internally in the track routing matrix and output back to 1-4. Those channels won't output to your mix so if you have other channels in the audio chain, it won't interfere with them. I am using this track template in third order Ambisonic mixes which have 16 channels of audio so I designed this template to work in that environment too.
Even though this template processes first order Ambisonics (channels WXYZ for FuMa or WYZX for SN3D), it is still very effective when used in higher order mixes. It isn't vital to have the reverb in higher order format to still be very effective.

All you need to do is send any B Format sends to channels 1-4 and the track will add reverb and output back to 1-4. If you are mixing in higher order Ambisonics, just send the first four channels to this track.

There's no reason you couldn't substitute any other stereo in/stereo out FX for the three instances of Valhalla Vintage Verb here to achieve genuine B Format FX. You'll need to set the channel i/o pins on each instance of your replacement FX the same way I have them set in the reverbs and you'll need to manually link each parameter from the second and third instance back to the first one if you want to have master control but it can be done reasonably easily.

I will be creating track templates for Valhalla Room, Valhalla Shimmer and Valhalla UberMod soon complete with parameter linking. I'm considering purchasing Valhalla Plate and if I do, I will include that too.

Download the Valhalla Vintage Verb Ambisonic track template here.

Download the Valhalla Room Ambisonic track template here.

Download the Valhalla Shimmer Ambisonic track template here.

Last edited by ReaDave; 01-05-2017 at 03:47 AM.
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Old 12-31-2016, 01:21 AM   #2
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Valhalla Room template added to first post.
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Old 12-31-2016, 01:46 AM   #3
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Valhalla Shimmer template added to first post.
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Old 01-02-2017, 02:36 AM   #4
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I made up another one of these using VoS NastyDLA Mk2 and should have the track template uploaded over the next couple of days. As with the others, all knobs and controls are linked over the three instances for easy control.

The secret to getting a nice, wide spread is to use FX that have outputs that vary their calculations in such a way that no two instances produce an identical output.
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Old 01-04-2017, 08:08 AM   #5
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Awesome, ReaDave. Thank you for the share!
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Old 01-04-2017, 02:42 PM   #6
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Good grief Dave. Lots to learn from this. I know far too little and it's too cool for that.

Can you recommend a resource to learn about Ambisonics and how to use it ? I'm wondering how to monitor this effectively.
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Old 01-04-2017, 03:54 PM   #7
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Right up airon's alley, I think, this vid.
Atleast I know more than yesterday, don't wait up, gotta learn this in my phase.
Thanks ReaDave.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzLxmEIYBl4
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Old 01-05-2017, 03:41 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melvin J. View Post
Awesome, ReaDave. Thank you for the share!
You're welcome.
Quote:
Originally Posted by airon View Post
Good grief Dave. Lots to learn from this. I know far too little and it's too cool for that.

Can you recommend a resource to learn about Ambisonics and how to use it ? I'm wondering how to monitor this effectively.
Along with the video SmajjL has posted, there's some really good information on Ambisonic format on the Blue Ripple Sound website. They strongly support REAPER and they provide some very useful core tools for full, third order Ambisonics for free. Their paid stuff is quite expensive but well worth the investment. I've purchased their Decoding and Upmixing packs and use them on all my REAPER projects now (my studio monitoring is now a 3D Ambisonic cube array of eight Auratone 5c cubes and a sub).

Here's some links to the info on the Blue Ripple site...
Technical notes on the basics of Ambisonics
3D Mixing FAQ

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmajjL View Post
Right up airon's alley, I think, this vid.
Atleast I know more than yesterday, don't wait up, gotta learn this in my phase.
Thanks ReaDave.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzLxmEIYBl4
I haven't downloaded that one yet but I'm pretty sure I watched it a few months back. If it is the same one I watched, it has some very useful info in it.
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Old 03-20-2017, 12:53 PM   #9
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This is amazing, thanks Dave. I've been thinking about mixing in Ambisonics since I saw your post a few weeks ago about it and the possibility to downmix to different formats but then, the realisation: clunk. It will need a 3D Reverb.

And here it is - looking forward to checking it out!

Cheers,
Jennifer
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Old 03-20-2017, 09:20 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by endorka View Post
This is amazing, thanks Dave. I've been thinking about mixing in Ambisonics since I saw your post a few weeks ago about it and the possibility to downmix to different formats but then, the realisation: clunk. It will need a 3D Reverb.

And here it is - looking forward to checking it out!

Cheers,
Jennifer
Great to hear you're keen to dig in and give Ambisonics a go Jen. Be warned though, it gets addictive pretty quickly!!
Make sure you check out the Blue Ripple plugins. They are pretty much the Rolls Royce for Ambisonic work. The Core library is free. The others are not cheap but nor are the results.... And no, I'm not endorsed by Blue Ripple. I'm just a very happy customer.

I'll be keen to hear how you go.
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Old 03-21-2017, 04:07 AM   #11
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Thanks Dave, yes indeed I can see that it could become very addictive. I've been really wanting to get into surround mixes for some time but put it off as you have to do separate 5.1 and stereo mixes, the risk being that 5.1 mixes become an expensive / addictive / obsessive diversion with a niche audience. When you mentioned the ability to downmix to these from a single ambisonic mix, it changed everything :-)

My plan is to try it on my next piece of music, which is almost finished. My studio monitors are only stereo, but we have a Bose 5.1 home theatre system I could get a rough idea of the mixes from, and there's always the binaural option through headphones for mixing. This seemed quite effective on the ATK tutorial vids. Hopefully doable if I keep the mixes simple at first.

Cheers,
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Old 03-23-2017, 08:41 AM   #12
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Thank you ReaDave
This is very interesting to me since I'm into Ambisonics now again.
Is it ok to replace valhalla reverbs with ReaVerb? I'm trying to do the same template but using ReaVerb and some impulses. I'm trying for example Samplicity M7 Wave impulses. There are others Samplicity M7 Wave Quad files, but I think that is not good for this template, because Reaverbs here should be like 3 stereo reverbs like the Valhallas I suppose.
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Old 03-23-2017, 06:48 PM   #13
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Here are some excellent tutorials by Trond Lossius using the ATK js plugins for Reaper.

On that subject, ReaDave, have you tried switching FUMA B-format to A-format and back using the ATK converter? You can get an appropriate result with just 2 2-channel reverbs that way.
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Old 03-26-2017, 08:11 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by endorka View Post
Thanks Dave, yes indeed I can see that it could become very addictive. I've been really wanting to get into surround mixes for some time but put it off as you have to do separate 5.1 and stereo mixes, the risk being that 5.1 mixes become an expensive / addictive / obsessive diversion with a niche audience. When you mentioned the ability to downmix to these from a single ambisonic mix, it changed everything :-)

My plan is to try it on my next piece of music, which is almost finished. My studio monitors are only stereo, but we have a Bose 5.1 home theatre system I could get a rough idea of the mixes from, and there's always the binaural option through headphones for mixing. This seemed quite effective on the ATK tutorial vids. Hopefully doable if I keep the mixes simple at first.

Cheers,
Jennifer
Don't forget to check out the Blue Ripple Sound O3A Core package. It is free and has some very high quality tools to get you started in Ambisonic mixing in third order quality. This is a pretty big step up from first order Ambisonics and well worth delving into.

http://www.blueripplesound.com/products/o3a-core-vst

Quote:
Originally Posted by heda View Post
Thank you ReaDave
This is very interesting to me since I'm into Ambisonics now again.
Is it ok to replace valhalla reverbs with ReaVerb? I'm trying to do the same template but using ReaVerb and some impulses. I'm trying for example Samplicity M7 Wave impulses. There are others Samplicity M7 Wave Quad files, but I think that is not good for this template, because Reaverbs here should be like 3 stereo reverbs like the Valhallas I suppose.
There's no reason not to experiment with different reverbs. I have actually used ReaVerb in this template myself and it works well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by plush2 View Post
Here are some excellent tutorials by Trond Lossius using the ATK js plugins for Reaper.

On that subject, ReaDave, have you tried switching FUMA B-format to A-format and back using the ATK converter? You can get an appropriate result with just 2 2-channel reverbs that way.
That is something I haven't thought of. Good idea. I'll have a play around and see how it sounds. One less instance of a given reverb VST is always good CPU wise.
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Old 04-25-2017, 11:08 AM   #15
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Hi ReaDave,

I'm afraid this is a totally newbie post (my first post here on the forum)
I'm very interested in working with ambisonics in Reaper, but I have very little experience of the program.

I downloaded your template for Valhalla Room and while it sounded very interesting, I'm not sure if I have configured things properly (I tried with a test file and the positioning wasn't right with the reverb).

I've been dragging an ambisonic file (AmbiX from a Zoom H2.n) into Reaper and in the Routing tab, sending it to 'VVV B format' Do I need to set up VVV B format to 'recieve' back to the ambisonic file too ? Also, do I need something like the ATK binaural decoder (I'm listening in stereo, for headphones playback) ?

Again, apologies if these are really simple things, any info would be appreciated
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Old 05-10-2017, 01:15 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Igneous View Post
Hi ReaDave,

I'm afraid this is a totally newbie post (my first post here on the forum)
I'm very interested in working with ambisonics in Reaper, but I have very little experience of the program.

I downloaded your template for Valhalla Room and while it sounded very interesting, I'm not sure if I have configured things properly (I tried with a test file and the positioning wasn't right with the reverb).

I've been dragging an ambisonic file (AmbiX from a Zoom H2.n) into Reaper and in the Routing tab, sending it to 'VVV B format' Do I need to set up VVV B format to 'recieve' back to the ambisonic file too ? Also, do I need something like the ATK binaural decoder (I'm listening in stereo, for headphones playback) ?

Again, apologies if these are really simple things, any info would be appreciated
Apologies for the delay replying to you Igneous. I haven't had much time online here recently.

Interesting that the H2n records in Ambisonic format. I didn't know they were capable of that. I have a H4n but it doesn't have Ambisonic capability.

Regarding my Valhalla reverb setup, you will need to have an Ambisonic decoder of some description on your master for any monitoring via speakers or headphones. The ATK decoders should work fine as will the Blue Ripple Sound core decoders (which are free). Make sure whatever decoder you use matches the particular Ambisonic format you are working with (the two most common formats are FuMa which is older and SN3D which is compatible with YouTube and Facebook VR).

You only need to set up a send from your Ambisonic track to the reverb track. No need for a return the other way. Make sure your send sends four channels though and not just two.

Hopefully this helps get you up and running.

Again, apologies for my delayed response.
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Old 05-14-2017, 06:34 AM   #17
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Hi 'ReaDave'

Cheers for your reply. I've been able to set this up fine with a stereo source (set to route as 4 channels) and it works very well. I don't seem to get similiar results (regarding positioning) when I use a ambisonic source. It's not a big deal though, as the effect using a stereo source is still very interesting. Thanks !
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Old 05-30-2017, 12:54 PM   #18
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Might be interesting for Ambisonics fans:
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Old 05-31-2017, 10:23 PM   #19
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Awesome! Thank you for sharing!
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