Old 05-28-2010, 07:18 AM   #41
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Thanks for positive response, Mike!

BTW; here's the REALLY LAST update I did (mostly removing (s) and some capitalizing stuff, adding labels to Extensions menu). Disregard the last attachment of mine

Attachment 8091

Last edited by EvilDragon; 11-04-2010 at 05:06 AM.
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Old 05-28-2010, 07:23 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Stop Continues View Post
I'm sorry these things happened at the same time, though I can't imagine how they could be connected. Just out of curiosity, why do you keep your VSTs outside of your VST directory?
I keep my VSTs with installers in Programs>Steinberg>VSTs and all others in users>zoid9>VSTs. Maybe that's why. I can't reproduce it though. I really appreciate you taking the time to compile this, though. Great work.
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Old 05-28-2010, 07:25 AM   #43
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Just use one VST folder. No hassle.
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Old 05-28-2010, 07:38 AM   #44
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Tried to download ReaMenus #002 but the file is exactly the same as the original, I haven't notice any changes... Still spelling mistake in "Suto-punch selected items" and the Insert Media option still opens the default "Insert Media" dialog... Maybe you uploaded the wrong file or is it a problem on my end? Anyone else get the updated menu file working?
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Old 05-28-2010, 07:44 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamWathan View Post
Tried to download ReaMenus #002 but the file is exactly the same as the original, I haven't notice any changes... Still spelling mistake in "Suto-punch selected items" and the Insert Media option still opens the default "Insert Media" dialog... Maybe you uploaded the wrong file or is it a problem on my end? Anyone else get the updated menu file working?
Ben did, as he discovered the "floating item info" on the extensions menu. The zip file is still named ReaMenus, but the file inside is ReaMenus #002.ReaperMenuSet. Do you see that file?

I just checked the download. Maybe your browser renamed the new zip ReaMenus(2).zip or something.

Let me know if I can help any further.
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Old 05-28-2010, 07:47 AM   #46
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Oh damn, I didn't remove (s) from "Add related project(s)" in File menu XD
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Old 05-28-2010, 07:50 AM   #47
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Oh damn, I didn't remove (s) from "Add related project(s)" in File menu XD
That's ok. I search-replaced all the (s)'s after your suggestion. I'll use a file compare between our MenuSets to see the differences.
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Old 05-28-2010, 08:01 AM   #48
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Great!

There are capitalizations that I removed, like:

Time Signature -> Time signature
Time Display -> Time display
External Timecode -> External timecode
Selected Items -> Selected items
Project Length -> Project length
Ripple Editing -> Ripple editing
Now Time -> Now time (May be better as "Current time")
Batch File Converter -> Batch file converter

Simply because it looks better to me

Also, wherever "enabled" appeared, I renamed that action to "Toggle <action name>" instead of "<action name> enabled". Why? Because almost all of those actions display a checkmark when they are turned on, which means they are enabled, and display nothing when it's turned off. This is inconsistent with your wording, since in your case, when the action is turned off, the name in the menu should change to "<action name> disabled", and it doesnt. "Toggle" works much better here.

What else...

I have added a separator in "Now time", and put "Use ruler time unit" at the bottom under that separator. I have renamed the differently named action in several places which toggles "red ruler", to "Toggle red ruler while recording". I have added "SWS EXTENSIONS" and "SCRIPTS" labels to Extensions menu. All instances of "Play rate" should be changed to "Playrate" as well, perhaps?

Etc., etc.

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Old 05-28-2010, 08:22 AM   #49
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Quote:
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Also, wherever "enabled" appeared, I renamed that action to "Toggle <action name>" instead of "<action name> enabled". Why? Because almost all of those actions display a checkmark when they are turned on, which means they are enabled, and display nothing when it's turned off. This is inconsistent with your wording, since in your case, when the action is turned off, the name in the menu should change to "<action name> disabled", and it doesnt. "Toggle" works much better here.
I don't think it should display the word "Toggle" or "enabled"... Just the name of the command is fine.

Look at Options>Editing Mode. You have three option there that just have the name of the option, no need for toggle or enabled. The checkmark implies it is enabled and no checkmark implies it is disabled. Using the word toggle is actually quite deceiving because it almost implies that the ability to toggle the preference is enabled when the checkmark is shown, not that the actual preference itself is enabled.

Check these in the MIDI editor as well, no use of Toggle or Enabled and it all seems logical and straightforward so I recommend just trashing the use of both terms.

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Old 05-28-2010, 08:32 AM   #50
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True, but the way MSC did this with labels, makes it a bit weird looking. For example, Main menu->View

[label] DOCKER
Toggle Docker

would look a bit weird if it were:

[label] DOCKER
Docker

No?
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Old 05-28-2010, 08:48 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamWathan View Post
I don't think it should display the word "Toggle" or "enabled"... Just the name of the command is fine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
True, but the way MSC did this with labels, makes it a bit weird looking. For example, Main menu->View

[label] DOCKER
Toggle Docker
I just finished going through all the typographical changes EvilDragon made (almost all of them valid--God is in the editing!) And this exact conundrum came up--enabled, Toggle, or nothing...

Of the three options, I think Adam's right about using less words. It's in fact that damn 'Docker' entry that lead me in the mess of Toggles and enableds the first time around. The trouble is, a lot of entries don't sound right without the extra 'toggle'. Thus, I'll use the less-wordy form where possible, and use 'toggle's where they're necessary.
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Old 05-28-2010, 08:57 AM   #52
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You guys no doubt dont need this level of organization to get around REAPER, but for someone like me who works with this DAW whenever time allows- wow! It's like you taught me to read! Thanks for this, one of the most relevant additions for me since I have been trying REAPER!
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Old 05-28-2010, 09:16 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Stop Continues View Post
I just finished going through all the typographical changes EvilDragon made (almost all of them valid--God is in the editing!) And this exact conundrum came up--enabled, Toggle, or nothing...

Of the three options, I think Adam's right about using less words. It's in fact that damn 'Docker' entry that lead me in the mess of Toggles and enableds the first time around. The trouble is, a lot of entries don't sound right without the extra 'toggle'. Thus, I'll use the less-wordy form where possible, and use 'toggle's where they're necessary.
I am very glad you approve of my edits

You say "almost all", which ones you didn't find valid?
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Old 05-28-2010, 09:26 AM   #54
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Quote:
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I am very glad you approve of my edits

You say "almost all", which ones you didn't find valid?
Even though on the Views menu, it was great to remove 'window', I wanted to keep the '...' convention to indicate it.

On the actions menu, I left it as "Recent actions:" because it matches "Custom actions:" right below it.

There were a few other little things (now that I think about it, possibly wording that I myself changed in making #002), but otherwise, we grok in fullness.
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Old 05-28-2010, 09:34 AM   #55
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I agree with "...", that's fine.

I'd just capitalize to RECENT ACTIONS. And still remove the colon :P I don't see CUSTOM ACTIONS below, though.

Also, is this all for sorting out SWS extensions menu, or is there yet more to come? (Is the edited #002 in OP post?)
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Old 05-28-2010, 09:45 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
I agree with "...", that's fine.

I'd just capitalize to RECENT ACTIONS. And still remove the colon :P I don't see CUSTOM ACTIONS below, though.

Also, is this all for sorting out SWS extensions menu, or is there yet more to come? (Is the edited #002 in OP post?)
You can only get the 'Custom actions:' section if you edit some of your custom actions with the 'show on actions menu' toggle. I usually do this for new actions so I don't forget to use them.

I'll upload an edit at some point today with your changes folded in and a 'finalized' Extensions menu (I'm sure you're eager to get your scripts back on there). I'm working as fast as I can.
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Old 05-28-2010, 09:50 AM   #57
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Nah, I don't have my scripts in Extensions folder, I have just this:

[label]SCRIPTS
Run ReaScript...
Run last ReaScript
<separator>
ReaScript functions...

However, it pains me that we can't edit [label] Custom Actions: to conform to the rest of the labels... Perhaps we should contact schwa

EDIT: or we can try removing the "Recent Actions:" label, and rename "Show recent actions" to "Recent Actions:" and serve as a label!
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Old 05-28-2010, 10:03 AM   #58
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I've just added a ReaScript menu at the top of 'TOOLS' (that menu is already too long to open it in the default layout :\). Also, see my expanding list of grievances with the menu system in my first post. Once all the MIDI work is complete, I'll turn it into a big feature request.
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Old 05-28-2010, 10:26 AM   #59
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I saw your list of grievances and I am joining you in your grieving.
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Old 05-28-2010, 10:26 AM   #60
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Thanks for adding the install instructions.

It's amazing how well this has been received, you've really hit a home run Mike Stop. I thought at least one person would say that something was in the wrong place, but instead people are saying everything's in the right place. Very refreshing considering the <other> thread full of people saying there was NO WAY to customize menus in a suitable fashion, that to customize menus for one meant to ruin them for others. The proof is in the pudding and you've shown that it IS possible to improve the default menus in a generally suitable way. As you said, just better is just better.

<edit> OK, I finally got around to installing. Preferences is at the top of the Options menu, and right under that, instead of in the File menu, is Project Settings...allow me to excuse myself while I shed a tear of joy. The world is beautiful when logic reigns.
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Old 05-28-2010, 10:37 AM   #61
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Well I like the new menus, and they are a lot more organized, but it is actually more effort to get to most of the functions now because of all the extra sub menus. I don't know what other solution there is though, there are so many preferences that exist in Reaper and are only really accessible through the menus that you have to put them somewhere. The choice is either basically one big long list where everything is accessible in the first tier of menus or throw in a ton of submenus to organize things in a way that makes it easy to find.

I think through this thread though we can slowly start to compress the menus and eliminate redundancies quite effectively.

For example, I think the Options>Editing section can be removed completely. Autocrossfade options and envelope options are already available on the default toolbar by right clicking those buttons, and the "Trim Behind" stuff should be added to the toolbar as well. Those features are already available by right clicking the auto crossfade button but there is an icon that is meant specifically for those trim options, so they should probably be included on the toolbar by default.

The key to slimming things down is to make sure each feature is accessible, but only in one place instead of 2 or 3 like a lot of options are by default. This ReaMenus stuff has trimmed down a lot of bloat in the menus but there are still some things that I think we can make more efficient!

Great work though and I'm looking forward to the arguments that are going to ensue as we all work to perfect a good default menu set!
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Old 05-28-2010, 10:45 AM   #62
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Good point about Options->EDITING. Can be removed without causing anyone trouble
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Old 05-28-2010, 10:48 AM   #63
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as I said before, this should be implemented by default in reaper...

there is no one reason to create new menu map for each one new version of reaper

a new re organization menu is a must to be implemented by default
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Old 05-28-2010, 10:55 AM   #64
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Personally, when custom menus came along I awaited a day when menu sets would be shared so I could grab someone's custom version and avoid that long, treacherous task of organizing commands, half of which I have yet to use or understand. Ironically, this has always been IMO, both Reaper's strength and a liability for new users. I'm really happy that this step in Reaper's Evolution and/or Creation is occurring.
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Old 05-28-2010, 11:20 AM   #65
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Quote:
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I had no idea the response I would get, nor that the project would be worthy of the main forum, so by all means, make the switch!
Roger that, moving this thread and the grooviness within to the main forum with relish...
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Old 05-28-2010, 11:36 AM   #66
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Roger that, moving this thread and the grooviness within to the main forum with relish...
Don't forget a napkin, relish stains are tough to get out.
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Old 05-28-2010, 12:30 PM   #67
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Thanks again.

I'm having trouble downloading the 2nd version of yore menus. It keeps on downloading version 01 , I'm using firefox .

When I customized my menus and key maps I found it very useful to integrated them into the view tab so as to be able to find a shortcut as quickly as possible.
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Old 05-28-2010, 12:47 PM   #68
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Thanks again.

I'm having trouble downloading the 2nd version of yore menus. It keeps on downloading version 01 , I'm using firefox .
Open the .zip file and you should find the 2nd version. If you want to save ver 1, rename the second file when you download it.

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Old 05-28-2010, 12:50 PM   #69
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I just installed these and had to add a *HUGE*... Thank You!!

These are great!

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Old 05-28-2010, 01:04 PM   #70
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Now this is great! Thanks for the great work and continuing fine tuning, MSC & EvilDragon.

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Old 05-28-2010, 01:17 PM   #71
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Thanks again.

I'm having trouble downloading the 2nd version of yore menus. It keeps on downloading version 01 , I'm using firefox .

When I customized my menus and key maps I found it very useful to integrated them into the view tab so as to be able to find a shortcut as quickly as possible.
Had same problem, deleting old one, clearing download history,etc. seemed to finally get it to work.
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Old 05-28-2010, 01:25 PM   #72
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Wow!! This is a long time coming. Thank you!!!!
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Old 05-28-2010, 02:12 PM   #73
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despite using REAPER+SWS/x for a long time, these menus helped me find a feature I didn't know about... define reference track and toggle reference track - SO useful!

seriously - these should be the default menus...
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Old 05-28-2010, 02:35 PM   #74
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Great Work! Thanks!
Should be default.

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Old 05-28-2010, 02:47 PM   #75
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Thank you so much! I started to take on this job the other day and now I'm glad I waited! Loving it!
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Old 05-28-2010, 03:13 PM   #76
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1,000,000 times better.

YAY!!!!

You guys freakin rule.
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Old 05-28-2010, 04:37 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamWathan View Post
The key to slimming things down is to make sure each feature is accessible, but only in one place instead of 2 or 3 like a lot of options are by default. This ReaMenus stuff has trimmed down a lot of bloat in the menus but there are still some things that I think we can make more efficient!
Agreed. The question is if the options should be removed from the options menu or from the context menus. It seems that relying on the toolbar buttons is a little dangerous, as people are much more willing to change those than to change their menus, but we can still reduce the menu redundancies.

On the one hand, having all of the 'options' on the options menu is a nice feature in itself. The options in the context of the transport/arrange/other places can be removed.

On the other hand, it's nice to have context options on context menus.

I'm inclined to keep all the options on the options menu and remove them from the other places, but I'd like to hear a few opinions, as it will set a major president.

Also, if you see any repeats other than the option/toggles, let me know.
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Old 05-28-2010, 04:44 PM   #78
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ReaMenus #003 is released.

Included:
  • ALL main menus
  • ALL context menus
  • ALL MIDI menus
  • ALL MIDI toolbars

It may seem like the MIDI actions menu is untouched. This is because I can't add any items without breaking it's functionality. (I'm going to make a big menu feature request soon to tackle this as one of a handful of problems with menu engineering.)

Is it a good idea to include the MIDI toolbars?
Is it a good idea to begin including a Main toolbar?
(Obviously the floating toolbars are off limits).

Are there any typos? Redundancies? Missing features?
How can ReaMenus be improved?

Should options be pushed into the context menus or collected on the Options menus?

Thanks to everyone for you suggestions and support!

BTW, after release #004, I will stop making updates every 12 hours () and only update as often as REAPER and SWS adds features.

It's been suggested and for the record, I would like to see ReaMenus factored into the core of REAPER and SWS, but only as soon as we've ironed out all the kinks!
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Old 05-28-2010, 04:54 PM   #79
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Wow. Simply wow. A friend and I have many times talked about the one thing most visibly lacking in Reaper - a sane menu layout. This important bit of polish on a great product puts it right over the top. Great work!
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Old 05-28-2010, 04:57 PM   #80
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mike, just a little one: on the item context i couldn't find an option to open the item in the midi editor/inline editor.
maybe you figure folk open them an easier way just i often r-click a midi item to open the editor, don't know what anyone else thinks about that.

again cheers!
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