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03-09-2018, 06:48 PM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 507
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Hard Lock Items
It would be really nice to be able to lock item(s) or track(s) so that it cannot be edited in anyway. Cannot be cut, moved, muted, influenced by moving regions cuts, copy, etc. Locked and unable to edit in any way including Project timecode changes, etc....lock to that sample location.
For Instance:
I have a movie, Dialogue Tracks, SFX, my stem busses, and my music tracks. If I want to cut out a piece of music with tempo and time signature changes. I want to cut out 13 measures of music so the end is earlier with the movie. If I region edit, the movie, dialogue, and sfx tracks all get edited. If I use razor edit none of the tempo and time signature changes accompanies the music.
There's no great way to make music edits without editing everything else.
Last edited by blumpy; 11-30-2021 at 03:00 PM.
Reason: Further explanation
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03-11-2018, 01:08 PM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 690
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blumpy
It would be really nice to be able to lock item(s) or track(s) so that I cannot be edited in anyway. Cannot be cut, moved,
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Preventing moving and removing is what locking does.
Why do you need to disable muting?
Masi
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03-11-2018, 02:43 PM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 507
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Locking in it’s current form, is not absolute. If I have a video, a dialogue track & sfx track I want locked to h:m:s:f, I lock it, then want to make a region edit for music Reaper will edit the locked tracks. If you make a cut without selecting an item or marquee area, it will cut the locked tracks. It is my opinion that lock should mean lock.... unalterable in anyway. Since that is not the case I’m asking for another layer of locking that makes the hard locked tracks impossible to alter.
Last edited by blumpy; 09-17-2019 at 02:10 PM.
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03-11-2018, 05:01 PM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: home is where the heart is
Posts: 12,096
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03-11-2018, 07:34 PM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,978
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+1
akademie
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04-11-2018, 07:53 PM
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#6
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: London (UK)
Posts: 412
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+1000
__________________
MacOS 10.15.7
Mac Pro 6-Core - 64GB ram
Motu M4
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05-15-2018, 09:39 PM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 1,701
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A friendly bump for this. Right now "locked" items can be...
1) Moved - by changing the project start time, executing a script, tempo changes, etc.
2) Split - by duplication or moving a region, executing a script or even using the split command
3) Muted
At the very least, would love to see these options added to the lock function.
- Lock position. Even if tempo changes or start time changes. If I lock an item to 2:00:00:00 I want it to never move from that timecode position.
- Lock editability. Don't let the item be split, cut etc. Ever.
- Lock item mute/solo
Working to video right now is extremely problematic because every time you change a project start time or run a script to change the timecode of a measure, you have to re-spot the video track, dialogue track, sfx track etc. which is a giant pain. Also, it makes working with regions nearly impossible because you are going to have to adjust the above tracks every time you move or duplicate a region.
Would be a huge boon to those of us working to picture.
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05-15-2018, 11:56 PM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 507
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Please please please
Please make this a priority.
Last edited by blumpy; 05-16-2018 at 12:04 AM.
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05-17-2018, 05:07 AM
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#9
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 170
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+1
Definitely want ways of excluding things from region movements, such as working to an acapella that you don't want to be moved when copying parts of the arrangement via regions.
This will be time saving an useful for a number of things...!
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07-10-2018, 11:57 AM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 856
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+1
When working to-picture, I'd prefer the reference video items not getting mangled every time I move audio around using region edits. Many other good uses for this also.
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07-10-2018, 12:49 PM
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#11
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Black Forest
Posts: 5,054
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A huge +1 for REAL item locking
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07-10-2018, 02:06 PM
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#12
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Leipzig
Posts: 6,621
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+1 from me too
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12-10-2018, 10:52 PM
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#13
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: North Pole
Posts: 226
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+1000
For working to picture, this would be absolutely amazing to have as an option.
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09-05-2019, 06:31 AM
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#14
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 119
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+1 Very usefull
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09-05-2019, 10:22 AM
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#15
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,719
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+100
Sort of a must-have.
When scoring to picture and you have a temp track and dialog that you want them un-editable, there needs to be a way to lock them from any editing (muting is ok).
__________________
Cheers... Andrew K
Reaper v6.80+dev0621 - June 21 2023 • Catalina • Mac Mini 2020 6 core i7 • 64GB RAM • OS: Catalina • 4K monitor • RME RayDAT card with Sync Card and extended Light Pipe.
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09-17-2019, 09:33 AM
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#16
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 1,701
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Just a friendly, neighborhood bump for this one. Really is a workflow killer to not have actual, proper locking of items.
Last edited by Klangfarben; 09-17-2019 at 09:42 AM.
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09-17-2019, 09:36 AM
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#17
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Black Forest
Posts: 5,054
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Thanks for bringing this up again, huge +1 from me.
Really an essential feature.
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09-17-2019, 09:51 AM
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#18
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 507
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Please please please...... please?
A lock that doesn't work seems more like a bug.
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09-28-2019, 01:12 AM
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#19
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 371
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+1
This would be really helpful
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09-28-2019, 01:21 AM
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#20
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 371
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so I'm working on a custom action to resolve this problem
the idea is -> using SWS cycle action -> "IF" region is move then a CUSTOM action is triggered
the Custom action goes something like this
SWS: Select locked items
Script: Lokasenna_Track selection follows item selection.lua
Track: Cut tracks
then when region is moved
Past tracks in place
any ideas on how to achieve this?
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09-29-2019, 10:02 AM
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#21
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 4,171
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I agree entirely that an item lock should be able to prevent script manipulation. But worry that doing this will break a lot of current scripts unless they are (properly) written to detect the lock state before they try to manipulate an item. How many scripts already do this? My guess is probably not many...
But the ultimate goal is probably worth it - and affected scripts would need tweaking.
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09-29-2019, 10:55 AM
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#22
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 371
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it could also be something like this
Custom action
select unlocked items in time selection
copy items
set Ripple editing to all tracks ON
delete all items in time selection (locked items are not affected)
paste items to edit cursor
set ripple editing to OFF
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09-29-2019, 11:08 AM
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#23
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,260
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Just for clarity. What you want is "Lock Item" at the item level to allow the same as lock all items globally. If I lock items globally and lock the track itself, I can't do anything to it, split, move, mute whathaveyou.
__________________
Music is what feelings sound like.
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09-29-2019, 03:52 PM
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#24
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 1,701
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic
Just for clarity. What you want is "Lock Item" at the item level to allow the same as lock all items globally. If I lock items globally and lock the track itself, I can't do anything to it, split, move, mute whathaveyou.
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Not true. Change the project start time or offset and you will see the items are no longer at the same location. Thus not locked.
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09-29-2019, 04:44 PM
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#25
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klangfarben
Not true. Change the project start time or offset and you will see the items are no longer at the same location. Thus not locked.
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Regardless, it's the right way to help clarify since it locks 99.9% (though I think the above is a different issue altogether) - then you can add the obscure finds to it.
__________________
Music is what feelings sound like.
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09-30-2019, 08:14 AM
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#26
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Black Forest
Posts: 5,054
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Full item lock doesn't help here. I would still want to be able to cut certain items, but not ALL of them. So, fully featured individual item lock is the only way.
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09-30-2019, 08:33 AM
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#27
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 507
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A broken lock is not right twice a day... it's not even right once.
Region edits should not affect locked items/tracks. A locked item/track should not be editable in anyway. Moving the start time should issue a prompt you with a choice; Keep locked items relative to the start time or Keep locked items in there absolute position and warn that any locked items moved before the start time will be truncated.
Ripple edit, region edits, split, delete, crossfade.... etc.... any editing that can occur on the arrangement window should not affect locked items or tracks.
The only time items that are locked should move from their sample position relative to the start time is when the media item position is set to beats instead of time or HMSF and if the item's timebase is set to beats. Then it makes sense to move locked items with a tempo change because they're locked to the beats grid and not the sample position/HMSF.
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09-30-2019, 08:36 AM
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#28
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Black Forest
Posts: 5,054
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blumpy
Moving the start time should issue a prompt you with a choice; Keep locked items relative to the start time or Keep locked items in there absolute position and warn that any locked items moved before the start time will be truncated.
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Another important point which I fully support!
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09-30-2019, 08:40 AM
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#29
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Stevie_
Full item lock doesn't help here. I would still want to be able to cut certain items, but not ALL of them. So, fully featured individual item lock is the only way.
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Read my post again guys. You want what global gets you at a granular level. That covers every single example posted I saw before klangfarben introduced a new obscure use case AFAIK - the fact he/she had to use an obscure example proves my point - Many times getting an FR completed, requires being precise - devs notice these things.
It makes far more sense to tweak existing behavior as far as making sense and increasing your chances.
__________________
Music is what feelings sound like.
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09-30-2019, 09:04 AM
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#30
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 1,701
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic
Read my post again guys. You want what global gets you at a granular level. That covers every single example posted I saw before klangfarben introduced a new obscure use case AFAIK - the fact he/she had to use an obscure example proves my point - Many times getting an FR completed, requires being precise - devs notice these things.
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Obscure? Anyone who works in post production or film scoring uses that multiple times a day. Just because you don't use it doesn't in any way make it obscure.
And the whole point of the feature request is because the feature does not exist. Saying well this sort of does what you want is not the same thing. Assuming what is easier for Justin and Schwa is up to Justin and Schwa. A couple weeks ago we didn't have negative midi delay. Now we do.
Just to be clear, a locked item should not be editable in any way.
- Locked items should not move location when project start time is changed (or give a user prompt as Blumpy suggested)
- Locked items should not split when you duplicate a region (also not obscure at all...)
- Different items should be able to have different lock settings. If I want to lock mute, edit, location etc. I should be able to do that.
The feature request was well-explained, well-reasoned and can't be accomplished with existing functionality. If you disagree you have every right to do that. But it doesn't make the request any less valid.
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09-30-2019, 09:05 AM
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#31
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 1,575
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--- Now I want to get precise in this
~~ hard lock cafe ~~
For small arrangement changes we can easily move
items by dragging them to a new position. But for big
coarse arrangement changes I use these two actions:
1. insert time at time-selection, moving later items
2. delete space at time-selection, moving later items
These both are very handy - and we can do every big
arrangement change with them.
But ...
... there is ONE problem: Both of these actions always
spilt all items which carpet the left time-selection border.
This is a severe issue!
That is because every part or region of a song has
pick-up chords and overleads - and thus these items
always cover the left time-selection border.
In order to perform "insert at time-selection" or
"delete at time-selection" those carpeting items should
be locked and thereafter NOT splitted.
But this doesn't happen. And a workaround for this is
very cumbersome and tedious.
--> So yes, there should be the option "do not split
locked items". If I overlooked something please
tell me!
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09-30-2019, 09:11 AM
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#32
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klangfarben
Obscure? Anyone who works in post production or film scoring uses that multiple times a day. Just because you don't use it doesn't in any way make it obscure.
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This has nothing to do with what I use or don't use.
I'm on your side man, the point was that this thread had a bunch of "can't do this", yours was not in that list until AFTER I addressed the ones listed. If it was and I overlooked, apologies.
The point still stands, the base functionality is there but not granular, so it stands to reason that reusing that code to address your issues is the valid path. I explained it the way I did to help you guys and the devs but never mind, continue with the rants.
__________________
Music is what feelings sound like.
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09-30-2019, 09:14 AM
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#33
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Black Forest
Posts: 5,054
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I indeed misunderstood you karbo. Thanks for clarifiying.
So, what you said in essence is:
just re-use/adjust the code for global lock for item lock.
Sounds like a very good idea to me.
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09-30-2019, 09:36 AM
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#34
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 1,701
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic
I'm on your side man, the point was that this thread had a bunch of "can't do this", yours was not in that list until AFTER I addressed the ones listed. If it was and I overlooked, apologies.
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Check out my post #7. That was before you jumped in and I think laid it out pretty clearly.
And no one is ranting here. Objecting to saying project start time or duplicating/moving a region are obscure? Absolutely. They are very common scenarios people use every day.
As far as reusing code, totally get it. But I think it's important to lay out what the expectation is. Otherwise, the use cases listed above don't get covered and it's an incomplete feature just like it is now.
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09-30-2019, 09:38 AM
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#35
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 371
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I made 2 custom actions as a work around
Custom Action A : Cut items & time in time selection ignoring locked items
Script: Select non-locked items in time selection.lua
Script: cfillion_Split selected non-locked items at edit cursor.lua
Script: PPP - Move edit cursor right by time selection length.eel
Script: cfillion_Split selected non-locked items at edit cursor.lua
Script: PPP - Move edit cursor left by time selection length.eel
Script: Lokasenna_Track selection follows item selection.lua
Edit: Copy items
Script: Archie_Time selection; Remove contents of time selection in selected tracks (moving later items).lua
Thanks to Edgemeal for Script: Select non-locked items in time selection.lua @
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=225526
Custom Action B : Paste time & items at edit cursor
Item: Insert time on tracks and paste items
Script: Archie_Edit cursor; Move edit cursor to start of first selected item in time.lua
Yes moving the region alone would be much easier... but until then let me know if we can improve this somehow ! thanks
Last edited by Cloudswim; 09-30-2019 at 09:43 AM.
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09-30-2019, 09:44 AM
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#36
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 507
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klangfarben
- Locked items should not move location when project start time is changed (or give a user prompt as Blumpy suggested)
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That's the whole point to the relative option. The locked items will not move relative to the start time. But relative actually means the item is moving. It remains in it's position relative to the start time you've moved but it's actually moved in time in accordance with the timestamp. We need a way to keep items locked in their timecode position when moving around regions and changing the start time.
At 01:00:00:00 at 24fps your timestamp is 172800000 samples. If you move your start time and the item doesn't move its relative..... but it's no longer in the same time position when synchronizing with picture and it's out of time with timestamp.
Last edited by blumpy; 09-30-2019 at 09:55 AM.
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09-30-2019, 09:56 AM
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#37
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 1,701
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blumpy
That's the whole point to the relative option. The locked items will not move relative to the start time. But relative actually means the item is moving. It remains in it's position relative to the start time you've moved but it's actually moved in time in accordance with the timestamp. We need a way to keep items locked in their timecode position when moving around regions and changing the start time.
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Yep, agree there should be a relative option or prompt. In the case of dialogue, fx, temp tracks etc. those are things you don't want to be moving ever but there are plenty of time you do want relative as opposed to absolute.
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09-30-2019, 09:59 AM
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#38
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klangfarben
Check out my post #7. That was before you jumped in and I think laid it out pretty clearly.
And no one is ranting here. Objecting to saying project start time or duplicating/moving a region are obscure? Absolutely. They are very common scenarios people use every day.
As far as reusing code, totally get it. But I think it's important to lay out what the expectation is. Otherwise, the use cases listed above don't get covered and it's an incomplete feature just like it is now.
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I wouldn't get hung up on obscure wording but nonetheless... of the thousands of posts asking about locking, the percentage someone asking about changing project offset affecting locking must be in the minority compared to the others - could be wrong but it surely doesn't sound like it would be at the top of the list. That has no bearing on it's importance, just a numbers thing, nothing more.
Otherwise, just trying to help you guys out - I work on both sides of this fence, music professionally and feature requests from the code perspective at the global enterprise level - that doesn't mean anything other than I'm really familiar at knowing how to bridge that gap and find ways to getting FRs accomplished.
My personal beef is that locking a take still allows switching takes using T.
__________________
Music is what feelings sound like.
Last edited by karbomusic; 09-30-2019 at 10:09 AM.
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09-30-2019, 11:48 AM
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#39
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 507
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic
the percentage someone asking about changing project offset affecting locking must be in the minority compared to the others - could be wrong but it surely doesn't sound like it would be at the top of the list.
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It's an essential feature for anyone working with video.
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09-30-2019, 12:01 PM
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#40
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blumpy
It's an essential feature for anyone working with video.
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I do a *lot* of multi-cam video but I ended up using Resolve Studio since last year - so I get the alignment/time stuff.
Ha... come to think of it, my avatar is from one of the video projects I was just working with.
__________________
Music is what feelings sound like.
Last edited by karbomusic; 09-30-2019 at 12:10 PM.
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