How many here make a living from coding plugins?

[bozmillar]

A few years ago, I ripped the umbilical chord and started making plugins and selling them as my main income source. It's gone well for me, but I find myself completely unaware if I'm doing things right. I'm kind of just making this stuff up as I go along, and as long as I'm surviving, I feel like I'm doing ok. But I have no real gauge on what the upper limit is.

When I go to NAMM and I see other plugin developers there, it's almost always a team of people. Many of them haven't come out with a new plugin in years, and I always wonder how in the world these guys can do this and support that many employees. I make about enough to pay myself and invest a bit back into research, but not much more than that.

I'm curious to know from those of you who do this for a living. What are some of the things you do that work? Do you spend most of your time coding plugins? What marketing tactics have paid off really well, and which ones have been duds?

I've given up on the idea that other plugin developers are competitors. I'm more than happy to share things that have worked or haven't worked for me. But again, I have no real frame of reference to know if my working is someone else's failing.

[Youlean]

Well I have not yet earned a single $ by making plugins for myself. I will try to change that in the next couple of months my releasing paid version of my Loudness Meter besides free one. Depending on sales I will see what will be the tactics for the future.

Anyways, I really think that we all here need to help each other with IPlug framework as we are in a same boat, and the more users of IPlug we have, the more stable our ground is. That's why I am releasing (almost) everything I am working on IPlug.

[random_id]

I have tried to make a living, but my success is debatable. I have very dedicated users. When I release a new plugin, I see the same people jumping in immediately and buying my stuff. That is a really cool thing. I have also gotten very positive reviews from users and online magazines.

So, the bad thing...All of this hasn't translated into enough sales for me to justify not picking up other work. I make too much money not programming to just program, unfortunately.


For me, this is my current thoughts on tactics:

-FREE: Having free stuff does generate a lot of traffic to the website. I think it also generates a lot of talk on forums. This is a good thing, although I don't know if FREE translates into sales

-SALES: I know this has been discussed on KVR, but sales work. I generate many more purchases during sales. I know the thoughts on KVR were against sales, but I just can't afford to not do it. People expect sales at certain times of the year. I also think it is a gentle motivator for someone that is on the fence regarding purchasing. For me, the trick is to have a non-sale price that is not ridiculously high (and reasonable for the plugin), as well as having a sale that is not ridiculously low. I am not sure how companies handle the $20 price for a $300 plugin.

-ADVERTISING: This is a mystery item for me. I just don't know how or what to do. If anything, this is my goal for the next few months - Spend money to make money.

-WORD-OF-MOUTH: Every time someone mentions LVC-Audio plugins on some forum, I get crazy bumps in web traffic. When someone says, "what is a good limiter for cheap?" and someone answers with one of my limiters, I definitely get sales. It is amazing how much power each individual user has on a forum. I guess (in conjunction with advertising), I need to find a way to increase this a lot more.

-PARTNERING: I haven't done anything like Plugin Alliance, but I have done a deal with a podcast that had a sale with my plugins. They got a cut of the sales. I was skeptical, but it actually worked out great. I definitely need to do more of this (and I am also very interested in the other thread about some sort of coalition - in whatever form).

[bozmillar]

I can only speak from my own experience, which is somewhat limited. I've also had a few lucky breaks, so those can't be ignored either.

When I first started out, I had Brandon Drury from Recording Review help me push my stuff. I don't think I would have ever left the ground if I didn't have that. His tactics were a bit out there, but they worked. He had a big enough following that he at least was able to give me a good push start. It was kind of luck that we both knew each other well enough to want to collaborate on getting a first product out.

Originally Posted by random_id

-FREE: Having free stuff does generate a lot of traffic to the website. I think it also generates a lot of talk on forums. This is a good thing, although I don't know if FREE translates into sales

I found this to be the case too. It doesn't even have to be anything super special for free. In fact, I don't think people trust complicated plugins that are free. It looks too fishy. But if you have a simple plugin that solves a very simple problem and it's free, everyone will want to use it.

My 2 free plugins are Bark of Dog and Panipulator. Bark of Dog is literally a high pass filter with a resonance knob. This can be done with pretty much any EQ already on the market. It even says so in the product description. But tons of people use it.

Panipulator is equally as simple. Just a couple of simple channel and polarity switches. It's nothing that can't be done with other plugins out there, but I think people like that it's not convoluted by other stuff.

Originally Posted by random_id

-SALES: I know this has been discussed on KVR, but sales work. I generate many more purchases during sales. I know the thoughts on KVR were against sales, but I just can't afford to not do it. People expect sales at certain times of the year. I also think it is a gentle motivator for someone that is on the fence regarding purchasing. For me, the trick is to have a non-sale price that is not ridiculously high (and reasonable for the plugin), as well as having a sale that is not ridiculously low. I am not sure how companies handle the $20 price for a $300 plugin.

I would strongly suggest not listening to what people on KVR say. What people say they want with their mouth is very different from what they say with their wallet. I mean, I think Waves' $300 plugin on sale for $29 is the most transparent stupid gimmick in the world. How can anyone fall for this? Then I realize I just bought 3 $29 Waves plugins in the past couple of weeks.

For me, I find it really hard to strike the balance between being friends with the people who purchase my plugins and trying to manipulate them into buying more. Those two demons are at constant odds with each other, and I haven't found a way to reconcile them yet.

Originally Posted by random_id

-ADVERTISING: This is a mystery item for me. I just don't know how or what to do. If anything, this is my goal for the next few months - Spend money to make money.

Marketing is a mystery even to marketing guys. Advertising feels a lot like throwing money into the wind and hoping more money comes back. I haven't really had any luck with advertising myself. But having a mailing list is gold. If you aren't building a mailing list, I would strongly advise you to start right this second. It is by far your most effective marketing tool.

Originally Posted by random_id

-WORD-OF-MOUTH: Every time someone mentions LVC-Audio plugins on some forum, I get crazy bumps in web traffic. When someone says, "what is a good limiter for cheap?" and someone answers with one of my limiters, I definitely get sales. It is amazing how much power each individual user has on a forum. I guess (in conjunction with advertising), I need to find a way to increase this a lot more.

The problem with word of mouth is that it's hard to predict. It's great when it happens, but I can only see it as a bonus. A lot of companies hire people to fabricate word of mouth. I guess it works, but it feels slimy to me.

Originally Posted by random_id

-PARTNERING: I haven't done anything like Plugin Alliance, but I have done a deal with a podcast that had a sale with my plugins. They got a cut of the sales. I was skeptical, but it actually worked out great. I definitely need to do more of this (and I am also very interested in the other thread about some sort of coalition - in whatever form).

Have you tried talking to any big names? I know it can feel like it some sort of inner circle that you don't have access to, but most professional mixing engineers are also playing a game of trying to get their names out there, and having a line of plugins is great for them on that front.

Just don't give away the farm if you plan on doing that kind of stuff. It's easy to think that they are doing you a favor by putting their name on your plugin, but you can't view it like that. In the end, you will be the one doing 90% of the work, so make agreements accordingly.

I should also add, and this is one of those things that I hate, but it's still true. Controversy sells. If there is controversy surrounding one of your plugins, that plugin will sell more. You just have to be careful how you manage the controversy. If you piss off everyone, nobody will want it. But if you can piss off 10% of people with something, then you have yourself a goldmine, because the other 90% will rally behind you. Nothing is better for word of mouth than a 5 page thread at KVR where 3 people are talking back and forth about something they hate about you.

[random_id]

^^^ all of that above, NICE!

[pipelineaudio]

Originally Posted by random_id

-ADVERTISING: This is a mystery item for me. I just don't know how or what to do. If anything, this is my goal for the next few months - Spend money to make money.

-WORD-OF-MOUTH: Every time someone mentions LVC-Audio plugins on some forum, I get crazy bumps in web traffic. When someone says, "what is a good limiter for cheap?" and someone answers with one of my limiters, I definitely get sales. It is amazing how much power each individual user has on a forum. I guess (in conjunction with advertising), I need to find a way to increase this a lot more.

Its been years since I was this relevant, but there are guys like me, who tended to be pretty verbose on forums and what not, and today with facebook and such, who cant even code the instructions for a turkey sandwich, but who have a lot of people following and/or asking for advice....digital guru-ish sort of thing

As a for instance, I don't know if we ever really discussed it, but the working model for REAPER was never to spend a penny for advertising, even when the magazines came calling asking to "review" (ahem) it. I think the closest thing that ever came to actual advertising, was paying my friend seven dollars to make the REAPER windshield vinyl banner for my Jeep, but that was more for my pride in REAPER than advertising.

Despite not advertising, REAPER seems to have a user or two

Today, though, I see so many alleged gurus out there, who's qualification seems to be strange sideburns, spray tans, general Life Coach/Self Help feel about them pushing this or that plugin or rack piece this week. It seems like they generate some buzz, but so many of the products they hawk are nowhere to be seen after a few months. I don't know how well that works

[Youlean]

Originally Posted by random_id

I have tried to make a living, but my success is debatable.

I have been following you for some time and I noticed few things that are bothering me looking at you business. I will try to give my perspective so don't be mad on me.

1. Using free wordpress theme looks unprofessional since you are having a business.
2. Testimonials on homepage have bad contrast and you can't even read it.
3. You have too much free space where social follow buttons are.
4. I don't like that you are having constant sales.

[random_id]

Originally Posted by Youlean

I have been following you for some time and I noticed few things that are bothering me looking at you business. I will try to give my perspective so don't be mad on me.

1. Using free wordpress theme looks unprofessional since you are having a business.
2. Testimonials on homepage have bad contrast and you can't even read it.
3. You have too much free space where social follow buttons are.
4. I don't like that you are having constant sales.

I appreciate the feedback.

These are some things that make independent development difficult. I am not a web designer. I don't do php, css, blah blah blah. I could learn, but that would be time that I am not developing. I could also pay someone to make a great site, but that costs money. For me, everything is a balance of money and time.

If I pay someone $2500 to make a better website, will that make me more sales and is it worth it? How long will it be before I recoup my expense for the website? What if the amount was only $700, or $7000? I just don't know. Incidentally, this is the same conversation that can be had with spending money for advertisement, GUI development, videos, etc. That being said, if you know a good wordpress person, please let me know!

I also know the issue with sales. I originally wanted to follow Valhalla's model and never do a sale ever. Then Black Friday came and went, and my order numbers didn't change. The next year, I did a sale. I would have to look at my numbers, but I probably had a 10 or 12 times increase in dollar amounts (not just total order numbers). So, I do sales now because it has worked in the past. I know that it infuriates some devs on KVR, but it works. Heck, the Melda guy has been doing the perpetual sale forever now.

Based on percentages, some of my sales have been pretty good for the buyer. I will typically do up to 50% off. The reason I do this is because my plugins are relatively cheap. Paying $15 for something that costs $30 is a good discount, but I don't think it undermines the value of the original price. If I were selling plugins for $300, I don't think I would have sales at 50% off, because I think it makes people question the original $300 price point.

The other thing sales do, is that it is another tweet, thread, post, etc. Regardless of what people think, an announcement on KVR for a sale generates significant increases in my web traffic. Same thing with a new post, thread, etc., that announces the sale. This continues to work for me, so I will probably continue to do it.

[bozmillar]

In my experience, I think it's an unfortunate reality that the plugin climate is such that sales are pretty much required. 10 years ago it was a different story. Waves was able to price a plugin at $300 and people paid that because there weren't many other options.

Then us little guys came along and were able to make the same and better quality without having to pay teams for marketing, legal and payroll and all that junk. All you really need is a computer and a web site, and lots of time. I don't need to sell $1,000,000 worth of plugins every month to stay in business. Because of that, we can price our plugins way lower and still do very well. The only way waves can keep up with that is by putting there stuff on sale.

The problem is, and this is the part that drives me nuts, lower priced plugins don't sell. It doesn't really matter what our ideals are, people look to the MSRP to determine the quality of a plugin. If I could, I'd price all my plugins at $10 and sell 50,000 copies of each plugin. But it just doesn't work that way. When people see a low price tag, they instinctively thing "cheap plugin."

In a world where everybody wants to blame their gear for their lack of quality recordings, people will always question your plugins if the price is low. If someone is mixing a song and it's not coming out the way they expect it to, the first thing they are going to do is start pointing the finger at their gear, and if your plugins are cheap, you are first in line to catch the blame.

I doubt anyone buys any waves plugins at full price. Those full prices are there only to prime the sales. The only way to compete with that is to play along with that game, or completely disrupt the market. Slate got a head start on that one with the subscription thing, and it's working out very well for him, and now he's in the position to create the rules of the subscription game.

I've tried the $10 plugin thing. You get a small core group of people that will pay $10 for a plugin because they know your quality based on past products, but it won't get new customers. The same plugin that is $50 but on sale for $10 will sell way more. It's dumb, but it's true. I make more off of a $50 plugin being on sale for 1 day than I make off a $10 plugin in 2 months. It's hard to stick with ideals when reality tells you otherwise.

[G-Sun]

Originally Posted by random_id

Website: LVC-Audio

I didn't even know of your existence.
Nice to see you plugins

[Derek Sapfe]

If I'm correct using the Steinberg SDK requires to register your plugin with Steinberg. Do you register your plugins? Does Steinberg require some fees if you want to sell the plugin?

[random_id]

Originally Posted by Derek Sapfe

If I'm correct using the Steinberg SDK requires to register your plugin with Steinberg. Do you register your plugins? Does Steinberg require some fees if you want to sell the plugin?

They do not require a fee.
My guess is that there are many people that don't bother to go through the process with Steinberg. I did it, and it is pretty painless. You need to sign a licensing agreement with them. The agreement talks about liability, mostly.

[bozmillar]

Originally Posted by Youlean

Well I have not yet earned a single $ by making plugins for myself. I will try to change that in the next couple of months my releasing paid version of my Loudness Meter besides free one. Depending on sales I will see what will be the tactics for the future.

Have you considered just selling your loudness meter as it is now? I mean, that thing has more features and options than any loudness meter I've seen on the market. You've already beat out the competition in terms of features. And most of the features it has are catering to the professional crowd. I would bet that 95% of the "free users" crowd don't even know what to do with it.

Or, have you considered licensing to other developers? But you could consult for pretty much anyone who needs help with loudness metering.

[stw]

I never intended do make a living only by selling plugs. But wanted to make it a considerable side income.
Since i'm only a part time developer this turns out to work more or less ok. (Never count all hours you spent and calc your rewards)
A big downside of programming beside other jobs is that it takes very long to finish bigger projects. On the other hand i'm lucky not being dependent only on that! That's what my current situation defines best. I'm just before releasing my current plug which took way longer to finish than ever estimated. If it'll be accepted on a broad customer base, maybe it could be some kind of game changer for my buisness...
However there're times when things go easy, other times where i'm struggleing a lot. Since i started programming in c++ only just when i started with wdl i had some steep learning curves. Doing all the graphics stuff and the support a business of that kind needs also takes a huge amount of time.
Advertising and marketing is one of the bigger secrets for me too. Since my turnovers are average i'm not willing to spent money on that which wouldn't fit the incomes. Maybe that's a huge mistake and i should do the opposite?
Unfortunately i never had a chance to get some external promoting to boost my sellings. I guess i'm lacking ideas of going into the right direction for establishing new contacts and making deals for good collaborations. That's he part of the buisness which i don't like most. I'm one of the creative guys which are happy if my work sounds and looks good
Obviously i need someone who'll do the business part for me

[Youlean]

Originally Posted by bozmillar

Have you considered just selling your loudness meter as it is now? I mean, that thing has more features and options than any loudness meter I've seen on the market. You've already beat out the competition in terms of features. And most of the features it has are catering to the professional crowd. I would bet that 95% of the "free users" crowd don't even know what to do with it.

Or, have you considered licensing to other developers? But you could consult for pretty much anyone who needs help with loudness metering.

I won't sell Loudness Meter as it is because I don't feel like this is right thing to do. Yes, most features are aimed at professional crowd but this is about to be changed in the next version as my business will (hopefully) target regular consumers. Adding those features was part of the strategy to win KVR developer challenge.

I will think about licensing my plugin/algorithms. The main problem is that I have 0 experience doing that. And I don't know what I can expect contract and money wise...

[bozmillar]

Originally Posted by Youlean

Adding those features was part of the strategy to win KVR developer challenge.

That's sort of what I figured. And it worked.

I have no idea how the licensing world works. I know that Izotope does a lot of licensing, but unfortunately, I think you need some legal expertise to really do it right. But maybe it's not that hard?

[Youlean]

Originally Posted by bozmillar

That's sort of what I figured. And it worked.

Indeed.

I have no idea how the licensing world works. I know that Izotope does a lot of licensing, but unfortunately, I think you need some legal expertise to really do it right. But maybe it's not that hard?

I really doubt that IZotope would be interested to license my plugin, but I have in mind one company, but we will see..

[CaptnWillie]

Originally Posted by Youlean

Anyways, I really think that we all here need to help each other with IPlug framework as we are in a same boat, and the more users of IPlug we have, the more stable our ground is. That's why I am releasing (almost) everything I am working on IPlug.

Bump. Currently using your version of IPlug with my partner as it has really facilitated drawing with Cairo! We really appreciate everything you've done with the framework!

[Youlean]

Originally Posted by CaptnWillie

Bump. Currently using your version of IPlug with my partner as it has really facilitated drawing with Cairo! We really appreciate everything you've done with the framework!

Thanks. I am waiting to see your product!