Superior Drummer 3

[thequietroom]

My internet connection is having a good day so i pulled thr trigger. Let the downloads begin.

[Lowell Mather 5150]

Any truth to weak snares?

Also, only stereo outputs/stereo outputs mapped to DAW now?

[tombuur]

Originally Posted by kgarello

Has anyone else experienced this.

In the Tracker and Midi editor, the transport is about an 8th note ahead of the actual hit.

I have tried setting buffer size to different settings and it does not appear to resolve the problem.

I don't see any discernable latency when hitting a drum in the drums panel.

Thanks,

Ken

I have exactly the same experience, and this latency is there even when you load nothing but SD3 in a new project. I find it hard to use the grid editor because of this as it requires me to mentally compensate for the delay between sound and visual clue. I hope this can be fixed, maybe if Toontrack added an adjustable delay to the graphics?

[kgarello]

Originally Posted by Tod

Do you have ReaVerb or ReaTune in your project? They can cause this problem and there are others too. ReaVerb has a couple of checkboxes that can help "ZZ" and "LL".

Thanks Tod,

Bypassing all my effects resolved the problem.



Ken

[ivansc]

Originally Posted by Lowell Mather 5150

Any truth to weak snares?

Also, only stereo outputs/stereo outputs mapped to DAW now?

Nope to both.

[ivansc]

Originally Posted by Lowell Mather 5150

Has anyone vigorously tested the Tracker with Stereo tracks and had
any success?

Thanks

Sorry - I missed this post earlier. The answser is YES. The whole of the beta team, including me. Works fine as far as I can see. What issues are you having? Might be worth contacting Toon support - the whole SD3 release is too new for many purchasers to have explored that deeply, but the devs obviously will have answers.

[Lowell Mather 5150]

I was just trying to gather some pre-purchase intel due to hearing some samples of stuff/complaints/observations on other forums...the only problems I am having now are totally slow download speeds!

[Lowell Mather 5150]

Not for convenience, but for speed, wonder if it might be better to say F you to the Toontrack Product Manager - a banana slug is definitely faster yeah.

(Is it ok, or hell, even possible to download SD3 without using the Product Manager?)

[tombuur]

One of the great advantages of Reaper is that you can easily replace a VSTi with another. Hence if you have a full multichannel setup for SD2 you just insert SD3 instead (or any other multichannel VSTi) in the slot. You can even use another slot in the same track keeping both VSTi's ready to switch between. Then you can play the new VSTi through all the same channels with inserts, routing etc. This cannot be done in most other DAWs I know of.

So I just replaced SD2 with SD3 in my setup. However, I found that kick and snare were not centered anymore. I had to narrow the spread of these channels in SD3 to compensate for this. It sounded like kick and snare went to the left and the bleeds went to the right. So something is different in stereo channels with SD3.

[Lowell Mather 5150]

Originally Posted by tombuur

One of the great advantages of Reaper is that you can easily replace a VSTi with another. Hence if you have a full multichannel setup for SD2 you just insert SD3 instead (or any other multichannel VSTi) in the slot. You can even use another slot in the same track keeping both VSTi's ready to switch between. Then you can play the new VSTi through all the same channels with inserts, routing etc. This cannot be done in most other DAWs I know of.

So I just replaced SD2 with SD3 in my setup. However, I found that kick and snare were not centered anymore. I had to narrow the spread of these channels in SD3 to compensate for this. It sounded like kick and snare went to the left and the bleeds went to the right. So something is different in stereo channels with SD3.

I can't speak as to between SD2 & SD3, however, this has not been my experience in Reaper just being able to switch vsti's and have everything jive.

If you insert SD3 from scratch are the kick and snare then centered?

[ivansc]

Just had a quick run through a few of the basic kits to confirm this: every kit I loaded has the kick channels slightly panned out by different amounts, as do the snare channels. And it varies on all the presets I tried.

Pretty easy to centre them if thats what you want: one click on the pan control does it.

What vstis are you having difficulty with switching out?
Obviously if you are trying to do this with a pair of drum plugs with different setups, it ain`t going to work that way in any DAW.
Certainly when I run a TT rompler and AD or SSD there are obvious differences in what note number sounds what drum, but again that is normal. The solution I suppose is to set up your note mapping to be the same in the two alternates ytou are wanting to try.
FWIW I just tried going from SD2 to SD3 and back and if you are using SDXs that were developed under SD2 and not updated for SD3 (I dont have all the SDXs, not even sure there are any of them left to do) you will have no problems.

[ivansc]

Originally Posted by Lowell Mather 5150

Not for convenience, but for speed, wonder if it might be better to say F you to the Toontrack Product Manager - a banana slug is definitely faster yeah.

(Is it ok, or hell, even possible to download SD3 without using the Product Manager?)

You need to do some remedial work on your computer or internet connection if PM is slow for you.
I have an i7 4770 and a 30meg broadband connection and PM runs a steady 3+ download speed for me. Utterly reliable and frankly the online version is the one that is the snail by comparison for me.

[Lowell Mather 5150]

What remedial work could I possibly need to do. I just downloaded over 20 GB last weekend with Firefox and it absolutely smoked the PM. I downloaded over 20 GB in literally less than half the time PM has taken to have not even reached 20GB yet.

For what it's worth, I'm not the only one having this problem with the PM download speed. My peak speeds are in the neighborhood of 600-675 kB/S. My connection speed is around 72 Mbps. I don't expect to attain quite near that speed, but this just ridiculous man. From what I can tell, it is impossible to download SD3 without using the PM.

[tombuur]

Originally Posted by kgarello

Has anyone else experienced this.

In the Tracker and Midi editor, the transport is about an 8th note ahead of the actual hit.

I have tried setting buffer size to different settings and it does not appear to resolve the problem.

I don't see any discernable latency when hitting a drum in the drums panel.

Thanks,

Ken

I found another solution to this problem. In Preferences\Audio\Buffering there is a setting: Anticipate FX processing.

You normally need to have this checked to get the best RT cpu performance, e.g. a lot better than Cubase is capable of. That's another story. But once it is checked the audio in the grid editior of SD3 lacks that 1/8 note behind the visual notes on the grid. Uncchecking it they play in sync.

This means I can't get SD3 grid to work in sync in a cpu heavy project. But at least I can make it work in the initial composing phases before a lot of tracks and fx are added.

[Tod]

Originally Posted by tombuur

I found another solution to this problem. In Preferences\Audio\Buffering there is a setting: Anticipate FX processing.

You normally need to have this checked to get the best RT cpu performance, e.g. a lot better than Cubase is capable of. That's another story. But once it is checked the audio in the grid editior of SD3 lacks that 1/8 note behind the visual notes on the grid. Uncchecking it they play in sync.

This means I can't get SD3 grid to work in sync in a cpu heavy project. But at least I can make it work in the initial composing phases before a lot of tracks and fx are added.

@tombuur, did you miss these posts?

Originally Posted by Tod

Do you have ReaVerb or ReaTune in your project? They can cause this problem and there are others too. ReaVerb has a couple of checkboxes that can help "ZZ" and "LL".

Originally Posted by kgarello

Thanks Tod,

Bypassing all my effects resolved the problem.

[tombuur]

Originally Posted by Tod

@tombuur, did you miss these posts?

Nope. I saw those posts, and none of them were relevant to my problem. I didn't have any rea-plugins. The delay was there even when SD3 was the only plugin inserted in a single track project.

I then tried Cubase and Studio one. No problem.

Then back to Reaper and found out unchecking Anticipate FX ... solved the problem.

I find this is important knowledge, since checking that option is necessary for Reaper to optimize latency in heavy project, avoid crackles and more.

[Lowell Mather 5150]

Originally Posted by ivansc

Just had a quick run through a few of the basic kits to confirm this: every kit I loaded has the kick channels slightly panned out by different amounts, as do the snare channels. And it varies on all the presets I tried.

Pretty easy to centre them if thats what you want: one click on the pan control does it.

What vstis are you having difficulty with switching out?
Obviously if you are trying to do this with a pair of drum plugs with different setups, it ain`t going to work that way in any DAW.
Certainly when I run a TT rompler and AD or SSD there are obvious differences in what note number sounds what drum, but again that is normal. The solution I suppose is to set up your note mapping to be the same in the two alternates ytou are wanting to try.
FWIW I just tried going from SD2 to SD3 and back and if you are using SDXs that were developed under SD2 and not updated for SD3 (I dont have all the SDXs, not even sure there are any of them left to do) you will have no problems.

Why would they do this? How far are they panned? They should be centered, or kick at least, and not the other way around. What in the world.

[Judders]

Originally Posted by Lowell Mather 5150

Why would they do this? How far are they panned? They should be centered, or kick at least, and not the other way around. What in the world.

I guess to exactly match the overheads.

If you don't like it, make it mono.

[ivansc]

As far as your download speed is concerned, Lucky you having that fast an internet.

I have a max of about 38 and seldom if ever get more than 3-4mb download anywhere.
Bearing in mind this IS an enormous download and a very new product, it is unsurprising to me that D/Ls are by your standards slow. TTs servers are probably struggling under the load. Are you really seeing better D/L speeds on the straight browser downloads than with Product Manager?
Care to quantify? FWIW I can still talk to TT on your behalf if you can't get any change out of them. I beta PM as well.

Just occurred to me that this kinda HAS to be hearsay on your part - you haven't bought SD3 yet, have you? Confusing unless I missed where you actually bought it.

[ivansc]

Originally Posted by Lowell Mather 5150

Why would they do this? How far are they panned? They should be centered, or kick at least, and not the other way around. What in the world.

Have a listen to any modern drum tracks and you will find kits are seldom panned mono any more, including kick and snare. Its called production. It is a moving target and always has been.

[Lowell Mather 5150]

Originally Posted by ivansc

As far as your download speed is concerned, Lucky you having that fast an internet.

I have a max of about 38 and seldom if ever get more than 3-4mb download anywhere.
Bearing in mind this IS an enormous download and a very new product, it is unsurprising to me that D/Ls are by your standards slow. TTs servers are probably struggling under the load. Are you really seeing better D/L speeds on the straight browser downloads than with Product Manager?
Care to quantify? FWIW I can still talk to TT on your behalf if you can't get any change out of them. I beta PM as well.

Just occurred to me that this kinda HAS to be hearsay on your part - you haven't bought SD3 yet, have you? Confusing unless I missed where you actually bought it.

Well yeah, no kidding their servers are not up to par for what they are dealing with here. As far as the straight browser - Toontrack does not allow you to download Superior 3 via a browser (to my knowledge), but for similarly size downloads, yes, Firefox absolutely smokes what I am getting here. At this rate, I am looking like a week before it is wrapped up.

How is this hearsay on my part? It took me a day to download 40gb - unreal man. Like I said, go visit the toontrack forum - I am not the only one putting up with pathetic download speeds. And yes, I have purchased Superior 3 (how else would I be able to download it)?

[Lowell Mather 5150]

Originally Posted by Judders

I guess to exactly match the overheads.

If you don't like it, make it mono.

Holy god, thanks hero.

[Lowell Mather 5150]

Ok, just tested it out, just the default kit:

Kicks are centered, with very little stereo information.

Holy shit, the new interface is badass!

[ivansc]

Lowell - last time I looked, you were still "wondering" - been in hospital for an op ever since so not doing too much catching up on whole threads!
Like I said, server overload. Think about it, this is probably both the biggest release since SD1 and also literally the biggest release ever. Whilst we were in beta it was taking even the smallish crowd that is the beta team a fair old time to do the downloads. Not really a sensible reason to beef up your sderver capability, bearing in mind how much the load will drop once the early adopters have d/l-ed that 260gb.
Apart from that, how are you getting on with it? Lot of new stuff to learn after SD2, eh?

[wallace]

Surround Sound modules.
Just downloading them now.

Thoughts?

I read they are not backward compatible so expect this means kits (yet to be released) will take advantage of this facility.

[TheMaartian]

Originally Posted by ivansc

Lowell - last time I looked, you were still "wondering" - been in hospital for an op ever since so not doing too much catching up on whole threads!
Like I said, server overload. Think about it, this is probably both the biggest release since SD1 and also literally the biggest release ever. Whilst we were in beta it was taking even the smallish crowd that is the beta team a fair old time to do the downloads. Not really a sensible reason to beef up your sderver capability, bearing in mind how much the load will drop once the early adopters have d/l-ed that 260gb.
Apart from that, how are you getting on with it? Lot of new stuff to learn after SD2, eh?

Toontrack are using a CDN to deliver the downloads. I have a 200/20 Mbps down/up internet connection. The download rate reported by the Toontrack product manager averaged 27 MB/sec (about 1 GB/minute), which is basically the max rate I'm authorized for. The Toontrack website itself did get overwhelmed on Day 1.

I have no complaints about the download capability. What sucked was the install time. The final d/l was 54.5 GB. Took about an hour to download, but over 90 minutes to install. WTF?!?!

[Dannii]

I reckon SD3 will be my next purchase. The 11.1 mic setup is pretty amazing and something that immediately grabbed my attention for Ambisonic work.

Alas, I'll have to wait a couple of months to purchase the update (I'll get the SSD version rather than download because I'll need another SSD for it anyway).
I've just ordered a Roland System 8 synth which has wiped my SD2 upgrade budget.

[thequietroom]

Originally Posted by TheMaartian

Toontrack are using a CDN to deliver the downloads. I have a 200/20 Mbps down/up internet connection. The download rate reported by the Toontrack product manager averaged 27 MB/sec (about 1 GB/minute), which is basically the max rate I'm authorized for. The Toontrack website itself did get overwhelmed on Day 1.

I have no complaints about the download capability. What sucked was the install time. The final d/l was 54.5 GB. Took about an hour to download, but over 90 minutes to install. WTF?!?!

ya the install time was rough too.. especially on mine because I ran out of HDD space on the last install and it installed with "errors"

but count your blessings... it has taken me all week to download the farkin thing. Your internet connection is sick.

[thequietroom]

So far I really like it, however my personal SD2 preset sounds way better still than any of the presets with SD3 (to me anyway)..

I'll have to work on the SD3 kits for a while to really get a feel for if they will supplant my current favorite.

The UI is great. It just feels creative. I love it.

[Lowell Mather 5150]

Originally Posted by TheMaartian

Toontrack are using a CDN to deliver the downloads. I have a 200/20 Mbps down/up internet connection. The download rate reported by the Toontrack product manager averaged 27 MB/sec (about 1 GB/minute), which is basically the max rate I'm authorized for. The Toontrack website itself did get overwhelmed on Day 1.

I have no complaints about the download capability. What sucked was the install time. The final d/l was 54.5 GB. Took about an hour to download, but over 90 minutes to install. WTF?!?!

Dude, of course you don't have any complaints about download speed, you don't deserve to. In reality, many people at this very second, are being screwed with 100 kB/s download speeds. Glad that everything went well for you.

[Lowell Mather 5150]

Originally Posted by ivansc

Lowell - last time I looked, you were still "wondering" - been in hospital for an op ever since so not doing too much catching up on whole threads!
Like I said, server overload. Think about it, this is probably both the biggest release since SD1 and also literally the biggest release ever. Whilst we were in beta it was taking even the smallish crowd that is the beta team a fair old time to do the downloads. Not really a sensible reason to beef up your sderver capability, bearing in mind how much the load will drop once the early adopters have d/l-ed that 260gb.
Apart from that, how are you getting on with it? Lot of new stuff to learn after SD2, eh?

I now hate Toontrack with a passion, but it's too bad the awesomeness of Superior 3 will alleviate that in time. Yeah, a lot of new stuff, unfortunately won't be able to put it through it's full paces for a while. Tracker alone is a monster to behold. Good luck with the recovery.

[thequietroom]

my download and installs are complete.. my dsl modem has melted and my hard drive is bursting at the seams..

The only thing that doesn't work is metalheads ezx.. says I need to update it. Everything is updated.

Anyone know if all the ezxs are compatible?

[Archimedes]

Originally Posted by thequietroom

my download and installs are complete.. my dsl modem has melted and my hard drive is bursting at the seams..

The only thing that doesn't work is metalheads ezx.. says I need to update it. Everything is updated.

Anyone know if all the ezxs are compatible?

I had to uninstall, re-download, and reinstall Metal Foundry. It was the only one in my list of products that had an issue.

The EZXs should work, but I'm sure you know that they were not produced the same way (e.g. 11.1 options), so not to expect that.

[thequietroom]

Originally Posted by Archimedes

I had to uninstall, re-download, and reinstall Metal Foundry. It was the only one in my list of products that had an issue.

The EZXs should work, but I'm sure you know that they were not produced the same way (e.g. 11.1 options), so not to expect that.

Ya it just wont load the kit.. says I need to update it in the product manager.

Maybe ill try uninstalling it. I have a thread in TT forum too. All my SDxs and other EXZXs are working.

[LouDorn]

Please excuse my ignorance in regard to drums and the software and being a bit off topic.
I am not a drummer. I can play guitar, string instruments, sing and harmonize but I cannot play drums.
So that being the case would I be wasting my money and time in getting something like SD3 and trying to learn and create my own drum tracks to play along with and use with my own creations.
Apparently from reading forum discussions there is a lot more to creating a drum track then I ever realized. All kinds of drums, cymbals, sticks, brushes, mallets, micing placements, etc.
I was hoping I could get some feedback and opinions here.
I obviously am not a studio guy, just a hobbyist.
So any thoughts you can share would be appreciated.
I can afford the software but that doesn't mean I should purchase it either.
I do have a Reaper License, and am always amazed at how powerful it is.
Thanks.

[Lowell Mather 5150]

Originally Posted by LouDorn

Please excuse my ignorance in regard to drums and the software and being a bit off topic.
I am not a drummer. I can play guitar, string instruments, sing and harmonize but I cannot play drums.
So that being the case would I be wasting my money and time in getting something like SD3 and trying to learn and create my own drum tracks to play along with and use with my own creations.
Apparently from reading forum discussions there is a lot more to creating a drum track then I ever realized. All kinds of drums, cymbals, sticks, brushes, mallets, micing placements, etc.
I was hoping I could get some feedback and opinions here.
I obviously am not a studio guy, just a hobbyist.
So any thoughts you can share would be appreciated.
I can afford the software but that doesn't mean I should purchase it either.
I do have a Reaper License, and am always amazed at how powerful it is.
Thanks.

I would say if you have no need for drum replacement or other advanced features in SD3, and this is your first drum vsti, you might want to look at EZdrummer 2 instead. There is also Addictive Drums, BFD Eco, Steven Slate Drums EX. I'm not sure if Addictive Drums still has a demo, but there are plenty of youtube videos and reviews for the aforementioned Drum vsti's. Superior Drummer 3 will do everything short of making you breakfast, but if you don't need advanced features, I'd say save your money and go with EZDrummer 2 or one of the others.

[thequietroom]

Originally Posted by LouDorn

Please excuse my ignorance in regard to drums and the software and being a bit off topic.
I am not a drummer. I can play guitar, string instruments, sing and harmonize but I cannot play drums.
So that being the case would I be wasting my money and time in getting something like SD3 and trying to learn and create my own drum tracks to play along with and use with my own creations.
Apparently from reading forum discussions there is a lot more to creating a drum track then I ever realized. All kinds of drums, cymbals, sticks, brushes, mallets, micing placements, etc.
I was hoping I could get some feedback and opinions here.
I obviously am not a studio guy, just a hobbyist.
So any thoughts you can share would be appreciated.
I can afford the software but that doesn't mean I should purchase it either.
I do have a Reaper License, and am always amazed at how powerful it is.
Thanks.

EZ drummer 2 may be more practical for you. Its much lighter and probably a little easier to dial up a quick sound.

And its a lot less expensive.

[wallace]

Originally Posted by thequietroom

So far I really like it, however my personal SD2 preset sounds way better still than any of the presets with SD3 (to me anyway)..

I'll have to work on the SD3 kits for a while to really get a feel for if they will supplant my current favorite.

The UI is great. It just feels creative. I love it.

I'm in the same position & was playing last night with the new SD3 kits and getting some good results using the on-board effects. Loving the tape saturation.
I also tried the additional surround sound packs last night and I'm really digging the additional ambience they bring to the mix.

[ivansc]

Originally Posted by Lowell Mather 5150

I now hate Toontrack with a passion, but it's too bad the awesomeness of Superior 3 will alleviate that in time. Yeah, a lot of new stuff, unfortunately won't be able to put it through it's full paces for a while. Tracker alone is a monster to behold. Good luck with the recovery.

(grin) I only just realised your standard operating mode is "Hyperbole"!!!

Reminds me of my daughter who has the excuse of being an actress....

Joking aside, I alpha'd and beta'd the damn thing for months, thought I had tried everything and I am STILL finding thing out. Seriously deep.... Have fun when you get around to it, but I have been getting great results on my portable (laptop) rig with just the basic install too.

To the guy who posted about backward compatibility of kits, everything I have has received updates to make it compatible with SD3, so do run Product Manager and make sure you get all the updates offered for your kits, including checking any EZXs you own.

[thequietroom]

Originally Posted by ivansc

(grin) I only just realised your standard operating mode is "Hyperbole"!!!

Reminds me of my daughter who has the excuse of being an actress....

Joking aside, I alpha'd and beta'd the damn thing for months, thought I had tried everything and I am STILL finding thing out. Seriously deep.... Have fun when you get around to it, but I have been getting great results on my portable (laptop) rig with just the basic install too.

To the guy who posted about backward compatibility of kits, everything I have has received updates to make it compatible with SD3, so do run Product Manager and make sure you get all the updates offered for your kits, including checking any EZXs you own.

Everything is updated.. sd3 just still says to update it. Tried uni stall/reinstall and re update. No love. No response in tt forum either yet