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Old 04-28-2018, 07:08 PM   #1
europa_man
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Default Cakewalk/Sonar User Group Couldn't Handle the Truth about Reaper

I was commenting about the virtues of using Reaper and the Cakewalk/Sonar Group shutdown the post!

No freedom of speech on that group.
They couldn't handle the truth!

This was the question in the post:
I'm curious to see what a free Sonar will do to Reaper. Does Sonar have superior functions and usability that could put Reaper out of business because it is also free?

Bob Bergen - the admin closed comments to this post!

Very funny, considering I've been using Cakewalk products since the DOS days.
Reaper is my number one DAW today but I still use SONAR occasionally and really like the program and told them so.
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Old 04-28-2018, 11:17 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by europa_man View Post
I was commenting about the virtues of using Reaper and the Cakewalk/Sonar Group shutdown the post!

No freedom of speech on that group.
They couldn't handle the truth!
The primary Cakewalk resource was and is Cakewalk forum. In that forum, nothing is removed till you violate (common sense) rules.

If you try to promote Sonar on some Reaper fanboy Foolsbook page, that will be also removed in no time
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Old 04-28-2018, 11:47 PM   #3
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Yeah, a few users trying to control their own group is different from an official forum banning polite dissent.

Also, it's worth mentioning that Reaper is not free (as you seem to suggest that it is).
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Old 04-29-2018, 12:42 AM   #4
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Yeah, a few users trying to control their own group is different from an official forum banning polite dissent.

Also, it's worth mentioning that Reaper is not free (as you seem to suggest that it is).
You mis-interpreted what he is saying. He is saying that IF it has good stability etc AS WELL as being free, it could give Reaper a hard time.
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Old 04-29-2018, 02:37 AM   #5
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Well, I managed to crash reaper the other day with a binaural plugin dearVR Pro 1.1.0 just by messing around with the panning knobs.

So, "stability" really is double-sharp knife.
I always say that Reaper is so customisable to the point of making it almost useless.
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Old 04-29-2018, 03:29 AM   #6
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Reaper crashed on me plenty of times. On the flip side, FL never crashed, like ever, since I've been using it since 2002.

As for customisability, reaper ui is crappy, as to why I've explained it may times before. In short it takes 3-4 or more user actions to do what in other daws usually takes 1 or 2, and many other things behave in somewhat unexpected way ( like cumbersome automation editing, expanding midi item from within midi editor, or glitchy cc's in cc lanes)
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Old 04-29-2018, 03:31 AM   #7
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There's plenty of things you can do in Reaper in a single action that many other DAWs couldn't even know how to go about it. Once you're in custom action territory (let alone scripting and whatever's there in ReaPack) it's game over for most other DAWs.

Reaper never crashed on me on its own. It was always a dodgy plugin's fault. Once you use properly coded plugins that don't do weird shit just because they think they can, it's golden.


I just wonder why don't you go back to FL then when it was so golden for you
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Old 04-29-2018, 03:47 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
There's plenty of things you can do in Reaper in a single action that many other DAWs couldn't even begin to think how to do. Once you're in custom action territory it's game over for most other DAWs.

Reaper never crashed on me on its own. It was always a dodgy plugin's fault. Once you use properly coded plugins that don't do weird shit just because they think they can, it's golden.
Sure, some combinations of actions do things quickly, most of them wont thou. I had plenty of those ready to go, but in my experience I had to always correct their results manually. So it just never feels complete. As an example, using tab to switch between midi notes in sequencer - once you at the end of the item, it wont switch automatically to next item! So go to either use another action or mouse. Same tab button press action wont work in midi editor instantly after opening it up, cause first you got to cycle trough ui. It's little annoyances like that that add up like noise. Some stuff is not possible at all: just the other day i wanted to create mouse modifier for doublecliking track - while piano roll is open, by double clicking on a track i wanted an action to select an item under edit cursor on that track and then move cursor to the beginning of that item, but i could not find an action that would select item on selected track under edit cursor. So now piano roll still opens up first item on the clicked track. I could use that additional track selection panel from within editor, but why, if I have all my tracks to the left of the piano roll window anyway? It's stuff like this that makes me shake my head.
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Old 04-29-2018, 03:50 AM   #9
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I just wonder why don't you go back to FL then when it was so golden for you
Fl's great when I do LOOPY music, but ain't great for complex music. Reapers does work better for that.
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Old 04-29-2018, 04:29 AM   #10
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ED - He just likes to moan every time someone else does. Note he is apparently back to using reaper regardless.
So FL is a simple program for relatively simple tasks but falls down on the complex stuff. Maybe that`s why the UI is prettier than reapers?

Never used it... I suppose I should, but I find looping itself as a clumsy way of working unless using very broad brush strokes for a rough demo.
So it really comes down to horses for courses. No DAW is perfect but the trick is to find the one that works best for what you personally need to do
I have had Logic Pro, Reaper, Sonar(and now the freebie too) Studio One and many others briefly, have lengthy experience with several more but for my purposes Reaper and Snar are the most handy for me.
As usual this thread is rambling off into the customary digressions, but there ya go. .
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Old 04-29-2018, 04:41 AM   #11
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ED - He just likes to moan every time someone else does. Note he is apparently back to using reaper regardless.
So FL is a simple program for relatively simple tasks but falls down on the complex stuff. Maybe that`s why the UI is prettier than reapers?
.
No i don't. But I do point out issues with reaper - is it wrong mentioning things that could be made better? Sure not.

As for FL, it is simple, but it isn't simplistic. It has everything you need to work fast and more. Has built in sampler, that is not kontakt, but it is still very powerful and useful, outside of many other good things. Biggest issue with it, is items snapping to grid problem where it won't always snap properly sometimes. And although this bug needs to be fixed, a fix in form of a action is there, so you just press it and everything is aligned as it should. Other than that, there isn't many cumbersome workflow issues that would slow your process down with little anoyences.
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Old 04-29-2018, 05:16 AM   #12
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Other than that, there isn't many cumbersome workflow issues that would slow your process down with little anoyences.
That depends. It sucks for recording audio completely. Also until recently, working with time signature changes was downright fucked (it had none!). FL is very good for electronic music, but it absolutely sucks for traditional linear workflow (because it was never intended to do that). Also routing in FL is a pain, compared to Reaper, so count that as a (pretty big in my book) annoyance. Dealing with MIDI Out and so on... pain. I find annoyances everywhere in it
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Old 04-29-2018, 05:25 AM   #13
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That depends. It sucks for recording audio completely. Also until recently, working with time signature changes was downright fucked (it had none!). FL is very good for electronic music, but it absolutely sucks for traditional linear workflow (because it was never intended to do that). Also routing in FL is a pain, compared to Reaper, so count that as a (pretty big in my book) annoyance. Dealing with MIDI Out and so on... pain. I find annoyances everywhere in it
That's correct. Thought routing to fx tracks is fine with me for what I'm doing in FL. But that's why I still do soundtrack work in reaper.
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Old 04-29-2018, 05:27 AM   #14
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Some stuff is not possible at all: just the other day i wanted to create mouse modifier for doublecliking track - while piano roll is open, by double clicking on a track i wanted an action to select an item under edit cursor on that track and then move cursor to the beginning of that item, but i could not find an action that would select item on selected track under edit cursor.
Xenakios/SWS: Select items under edit cursor on selected tracks.
Combine that with the action Item navigation: Move cursor to start of items, then assign that custom action to your Track control panel double click mouse modifier context and there you go.
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Old 04-29-2018, 05:42 AM   #15
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Well, I managed to crash reaper the other day with a binaural plugin dearVR Pro 1.1.0 just by messing around with the panning knobs.
And it works OK in other hosts?
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Old 04-29-2018, 07:16 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by europa_man View Post
I was commenting about the virtues of using Reaper and the Cakewalk/Sonar Group shutdown the post!

No freedom of speech on that group.
They couldn't handle the truth!
The thin skinned mods banned me about five or six years ago for commenting on my first hand experiences using both Sonar and Reaper. The last thing I posted before having my account nuked was some comparisons about the audio engine between them, and how Reaper seemed to be able to take a lot more before dropping out.
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Old 04-29-2018, 08:26 AM   #17
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Xenakios/SWS: Select items under edit cursor on selected tracks.
Combine that with the action Item navigation: Move cursor to start of items, then assign that custom action to your Track control panel double click mouse modifier context and there you go.
Ah man, thank you. I forgot about sws ( had fresh install recently ). Sometimes I'm an ass.

...

Although, now when I want to add several tracks to it, I either have to do it one by one holding ctrl, or a number of them holding shift, and then db click on last one selected. Not ideal. That's what I mean when i say you got to click a lot in reaper.

...

And it isin't always working well.

Also, for some reason, when I do that, when I close midi editor, i find arrange view have scrolled to the edit cursor...
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Old 04-29-2018, 09:07 AM   #18
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The thin skinned mods banned me about five or six years ago for commenting on my first hand experiences using both Sonar and Reaper. The last thing I posted before having my account nuked was some comparisons about the audio engine between them, and how Reaper seemed to be able to take a lot more before dropping out.
The Cakewalk forum has had its ups and downs about how thin skinned they can be, for sure. I've also seen plenty of dissent and negativity over there too, over the years. Generally, though, I've seen them deal a pretty even hand if people express a dissenting POV with respect and without personal insults. I'd say the Cakewalk forum is about average in my experience across other DAWs -- Pro Tools, Cubase, Live, Presonus, etc. It's fascinating how there's a different dynamic in each one. The one that surprised me recently was the German Presonus forum (where the American mods aren't supervising with their overly politically correct attitude) and you'll see some real harsh words come up sometimes, but in the end, they try to get along without having to censure each other. Works fine.

And Cakewalk does have the right to ban anyone they want, of course, for whatever reason. It's their forum. There is no presumption of "freedom of speech" in a private forum like that. Whether or not it is a good thing they do that, I'd say they could improve, but I understand every mod is trying to strike a balance.

I think Reaper's forum is actually an anomaly -- the users here are all over the map, very opinionated, but usually pretty reasonable and helpful, some extremely experienced who go the extra mile, and it's very self-regulating and stable. There's more "investment" here IMO -- the users are much more part of the journey, and it's extremely helpful that Justin and Schwa chime in regularly and even show a sense of humor. Amazing what a sense of humor can accomplish in a place like this. :-)
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Old 04-29-2018, 01:23 PM   #19
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That's correct. Thought routing to fx tracks is fine with me for what I'm doing in FL. But that's why I still do soundtrack work in reaper.
So why not simply accept that Reaper (apparently) DOES do what you need reasonably well, instead of continually picking holes in it and complaining over what you think it ought to be doing to suit your workflow better?
YES I agree that positive criticism cam be both useful and motivating for the devs, but having someone reiterate the same generalised stuff like you do not only does`nt really help, it engenders the feeling that you are just moaning because you like the sound of your own voice.
I am trying to keep this as objective as | am able, but I personally get tired of seeing every single post from you being a complaint about how shit reaper is.
Maybe you could think about how you are phrasing things as well as what you are saying?
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Old 04-30-2018, 02:22 AM   #20
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About CW forum. I have written many complains about Sonar there, from constructive up to rather harsh, written at the moment of total frustration. Also I have written many comparisons with Reaper recently. NO SINGLE POST FROM ME was ever deleted (except automatic spam protection which sometimes behave strange, but lengthy posts could be resurrected PMing hosts).

@Glennbo. I do not remember what was 6 years ago, but your posts at the time of CW crash for some people was looking not good. It is not Reaper related, just the style which you have used. Not sure you understand, these posts could turn off some people from Reaper. For example I put Reaper at the very end of my check list after reading these posts...

About "loops" in Reaper. Reaper is in general not perfect there:
* no project pitch markers (no auto pitching inserted/existing loops)
* no default reasonably working slicer, no use of ACID slice info from WAVs, manual stretch markers are not loops friendly (not rollable with loops)
* no build-in loop editor
* no build-in "PlayTime" (which is fine to play loops, but too "hacky" to use in parallel with time based project)
Nothing and no one is perfect. Reaper rocks in almost everything else
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Old 04-30-2018, 03:20 AM   #21
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So why not simply accept that Reaper (apparently) DOES do what you need reasonably well, instead of continually picking holes in it and complaining over what you think it ought to be doing to suit your workflow better?
YES I agree that positive criticism cam be both useful and motivating for the devs, but having someone reiterate the same generalised stuff like you do not only does`nt really help, it engenders the feeling that you are just moaning because you like the sound of your own voice.
I am trying to keep this as objective as | am able, but I personally get tired of seeing every single post from you being a complaint about how shit reaper is.
Maybe you could think about how you are phrasing things as well as what you are saying?
I do accept that, but I'm always on the edge with it, because there are always problems with it on multiple levels, and I don't trust it. Reason I am being so specific and sometimes explicit is often because its problems, and I want devs to make it better, and it has nothing to do with "my" workflow, but with a common sense approach to design, which in general would be more specific and context sensitive, or smart, working across arranger and midi editor.

I use forum for criticism primarily ( or if i see someone that needs help here, i do try to help if i can). I don't see this or any forum as a club, and I am usually here when I encountered another frustrating issue, and might be looking for solution. I'm also here when I want to look in to bug forum, to brace myself ahead of time or see if someone else has same issues as I ( hint, plenty of user experienced the same odd rare issues). I discus positive aspects of reaper mostly in private conversations, with people who never used it or starting to use it.

So all in all, I don't love reaper, I think it is useful, but it has got this huge part of it that is just plain trash and should be dealt with sensibly, not with small fixes, but with a proper re-haul both in ui and engine.
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Old 04-30-2018, 03:30 AM   #22
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Reason I am being so specific and sometimes explicit so often about its problems, is precisely that I wan't it to devs make it better,
The main problem is that the way you're putting that out is not exactly motivational or even useful, because way too often you end up sounding way too vague. If something you encounter is in no way repeatable by others, you cannot expect anything realistically done to "fix it".

UI-wise I don't think we will see any changes any time soon, or perhaps ever. The only thing we can realistically expect is extending WALTER to other areas of Reaper. That's about it. It's the way devs envisioned it and it's extremely unlikely to change.

Engine itself doesn't need any changes really, it's the best out there, most efficient by far. Absolutely no need to rewrite that.

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Old 04-30-2018, 03:49 AM   #23
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The main problem is that the way you're putting that out is not exactly motivational or even useful, because way too often you end up sounding way too vague. If something you encounter is in no way repeatable by others, you cannot expect anything realistically done to "fix it".

UI-wise I don't think we will see any changes any time soon, or perhaps ever. The only thing we can realistically expect is extending WALTER to other areas of Reaper. That's about it. It's the way devs envisioned it and it's extremely unlikely to change.
I don't see reaper being "visionary" in any other way then maybe at it's core only. But as for ui, that isn't good that they wouldn't touch it up, although better Walter integration is probably going to make some users produce more coherent themes.

In at least half of those "vague" cases, I would later see another user or few users posting about them in bug forums, but sometimes it's years later. Usually when I encounter a problem like that, I'm in mids of delivering something, and last thing I then think of is posting on the forums about i. That's why I often only mention those issues within posts. Anther times, I don't know myself what is going wrong, so all i can do is mention it in hope that someone else encountered it too. But i don't see a point in starting topics anymore, cause those threads go sideways to nowhere, unless something is super obvious.

As you know, English isn't my first language, but I will try to be better at expressing my thoughts. I always welcome those kinds of suggestions.
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Old 04-30-2018, 04:02 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by europa_man View Post
This was the question in the post:
I'm curious to see what a free Sonar will do to Reaper. Does Sonar have superior functions and usability that could put Reaper out of business because it is also free?

Bob Bergen - the admin closed comments to this post!

Very funny, considering I've been using Cakewalk products since the DOS days.
Reaper is my number one DAW today but I still use SONAR occasionally and really like the program and told them so.
Sonar is a great daw, I worked in it for more than 10 years. But, recently I had to go to the Reaper and I do not want to go back. Even after the news of the return of Sonar. For me, there were too many small things, minor bugs and crashes. Especially in regard to the external processing and use of UAD dsp. Departures for me were part of the usual workflow. It's sad, but true.

The Reaper is not perfect, but as a greatest tool for work. Despite the fact that it is rather rudely made graphically, and some functions still require significant refinement.
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Old 04-30-2018, 04:46 AM   #25
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This:
Quote:
Originally Posted by europa_man View Post
They couldn't handle the truth!
and This:
Quote:
Originally Posted by europa_man View Post
Does Sonar have superior functions and usability that could put Reaper out of business because it is also free?
Don't match up.

Reaper is not free, if you're not paying for a license and using it beyond what is faithfully expected then you may as well be comparing to any other DAW out there which you're choosing to free ride without licensing.

Perhaps GarageBand or Ardour would be better comparisons?

I can understand why your post would've been closed down, and it's nothing to do with speaking the truth or freedom of speech (Which is a fallacy anyway). If you've used Cakewalk since DOS days, and Sonar still today, why even ask the question to start with unless you're trying troll? Looks like you got found out.

Just enjoy what you use, and let others enjoy what they use without the trolling and hate man, and don't slam the guy who's protecting his community from such actions, sounds like he's doing a good job.

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Old 04-30-2018, 01:40 PM   #26
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I do accept that, but I'm always on the edge with it, because there are always problems with it on multiple levels, and I don't trust it. .
^ey-- heh-- although i don't in total agree with every word MikComposer has nailed it.. when software is broken and not working for people--it does not need constant praising,it needs lots of reafinements and good working order.
From day 1 i had 2 initial feelings from reaper--
1."wow,this is very kool,powerfull+customizable programme"
2."wow,this programme is broken to shit,and cannot put total faith in this"..

nothing has changed^--- i want to like this programme,and keep using it--but really if people are paying good money--they should get a good working product-- not some 'sold as seen,we may get round to fixing it at some stage' programme... ?
everything seems so half baked-half assed--but that's not all cockos fault--that's computers and coders in general..windows is not much different--apparently mac is the same..
rearant rendered.
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Old 04-30-2018, 02:49 PM   #27
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Skijumptoes,

I originally read the sentence in the OP as meaning:


Quote:
Originally Posted by europa_man View Post
I'm curious to see what a free Sonar will do to Reaper. Does Sonar have superior functions and usability that could put Reaper out of business because Sonar is also free?
The use of "it" made the meaning ambiguous though.

As you can see from post #4 I'm not the only one to read it that way and I'm sure that was europa_man's intention.
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Old 04-30-2018, 10:45 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azslow3 View Post
About CW forum. I have written many complains about Sonar there, from constructive up to rather harsh, written at the moment of total frustration. Also I have written many comparisons with Reaper recently. NO SINGLE POST FROM ME was ever deleted (except automatic spam protection which sometimes behave strange, but lengthy posts could be resurrected PMing hosts).

@Glennbo. I do not remember what was 6 years ago, but your posts at the time of CW crash for some people was looking not good. It is not Reaper related, just the style which you have used. Not sure you understand, these posts could turn off some people from Reaper. For example I put Reaper at the very end of my check list after reading these posts...

About "loops" in Reaper. Reaper is in general not perfect there:
* no project pitch markers (no auto pitching inserted/existing loops)
* no default reasonably working slicer, no use of ACID slice info from WAVs, manual stretch markers are not loops friendly (not rollable with loops)
* no build-in loop editor
* no build-in "PlayTime" (which is fine to play loops, but too "hacky" to use in parallel with time based project)
Nothing and no one is perfect. Reaper rocks in almost everything else
Cake was promoting the Sonar 8 release. I had previously been a major supporter of Cake/Sonar, but had been using Reaper for over a year when I tried the demo version of Sonar 8. Several A/B tests revealed for me that using the identical 64 samples latency ASIO driver, Reaper was much more efficient, where the demo version of Sonar 8 began to exhibit audio artifacts after only a few tracks of recording with heavy FX.

I posted my first hand experience, and stated it all as a matter of fact, exactly as I had seen it in multiple tests on my system. It was not appreciated like my user submitted documentation on how to use the Vsampler plugin that came with Sonar and included no documentation whatsoever.
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Old 05-01-2018, 03:08 AM   #29
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The use of "it" made the meaning ambiguous though.

As you can see from post #4 I'm not the only one to read it that way and I'm sure that was europa_man's intention.
In context of "They couldn't handle the truth!" and "I was commenting about the virtues of using Reaper" should really highlight the intention behind their post.

I can totally understand why a mod would shut it down, it's just not a valid comparison. If you're not buying a license then you may as well free-ride Logic, Cubase or Ableton and ask the same question. But even then, why even ask the question, artistic choice isn't always determined by value alone, and who's to say something logic that comes complete with a ton of content and plugins isn't 'better' value for money than the cheaper DAW only options?

Plain and simply they got found out, shut down and now complaining here to keep their ego flattered, and what good does it do anyone?! Use what you use and be happy with it, and people should just quit cracking on to others about their choices. That Mod was well within his right to protect their community from troll like baiting posts and i say fantastic work.

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Old 05-01-2018, 04:12 AM   #30
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Mik - What IS your native language?

I always forget you are using a second language because you are pretty articulate in English.

Dreading it being Polish, as I can just about manage "good day how are you" in Polish myself!
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Old 05-01-2018, 01:25 PM   #31
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Cake was promoting the Sonar 8 release. I had previously been a major supporter of Cake/Sonar, but had been using Reaper for over a year when I tried the demo version of Sonar 8. Several A/B tests revealed for me that using the identical 64 samples latency ASIO driver, Reaper was much more efficient, where the demo version of Sonar 8 began to exhibit audio artifacts after only a few tracks of recording with heavy FX.

I posted my first hand experience, and stated it all as a matter of fact, exactly as I had seen it in multiple tests on my system. It was not appreciated like my user submitted documentation on how to use the Vsampler plugin that came with Sonar and included no documentation whatsoever.
May be "stated it all as a matter of fact" was the problem? I do not know. I was not there at Sonar 8 time.
I hope you understand that with anticipative processing enabled, Reaper does not work in "real time" for not recording/monitoring tracks. Yes, that feature does not exist in Sonar. And yes, that is nice feature. I have explained that in fine details on CW forum recently, as as you can guess I was not banned and the posts are still there.
I repeat, I have the feeling the problem is not "what" you write, but "how", more precise how people interpret what you are writing.

Not sure which appreciation you have expected for the manual. I guess particular users, which have found your manual useful, have appreciated your work.
When I have written a special plug-in (Lua MIDI processor for Sonar) and the man who has explicitly asked for it has never replied nor tried to use it, that was rather frustrating. But when I do something on my own and that produce zero response, I do not see that as a problem.
F.e. no-one want DP friendly csurf without "MIDI leaks" for Reaper. So I just use it for myself, no problem
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Old 05-01-2018, 02:19 PM   #32
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Mik - What IS your native language?

I always forget you are using a second language because you are pretty articulate in English.

Dreading it being Polish, as I can just about manage "good day how are you" in Polish myself!
You guessed it! Kiełbasa i pierogi

Chsząszcz brzmi w czcinie w szczebrzeszynie!
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Old 05-01-2018, 05:32 PM   #33
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May be "stated it all as a matter of fact" was the problem? I do not know. I was not there at Sonar 8 time.
I hope you understand that with anticipative processing enabled, Reaper does not work in "real time" for not recording/monitoring tracks. Yes, that feature does not exist in Sonar. And yes, that is nice feature. I have explained that in fine details on CW forum recently, as as you can guess I was not banned and the posts are still there.
I repeat, I have the feeling the problem is not "what" you write, but "how", more precise how people interpret what you are writing.

Not sure which appreciation you have expected for the manual. I guess particular users, which have found your manual useful, have appreciated your work.
When I have written a special plug-in (Lua MIDI processor for Sonar) and the man who has explicitly asked for it has never replied nor tried to use it, that was rather frustrating. But when I do something on my own and that produce zero response, I do not see that as a problem.
F.e. no-one want DP friendly csurf without "MIDI leaks" for Reaper. So I just use it for myself, no problem
Whatever their reasoning, it was the final try I ever gave Cakewalk or Sonar. Reaper has never become unresponsive and cost me hours of work. Sonar did, which was why I switched.

As far as the documentation thing, that was referencing Sonar 2.0 XL when Cake included Speedsoft's "Vsampler", but no documentation was available from Cake nor Speedsoft, and it was a complex virtual instrument. I wrote a three part doc on setting it up, mapping instruments to keys and midi channels, as well as how to setup round-robins for drums, and how to export your work as a soundfont. Cake was very appreciative at the time, as they had a mob of angry users who didn't like getting a plugin like that and no docs on how to use it. That would have been all the way back to 2003.

http://forum.cakewalk.com/PDF-VSampl...nbo-m2279.aspx
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Old 05-02-2018, 02:04 AM   #34
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You guessed it! Kiełbasa i pierogi

Chsząszcz brzmi w czcinie w szczebrzeszynie!
Kabanossi!!!!! My absolute favourite, even over a quality pierogi.

I am better at Danish tongue twisters....

And of course I COULD have said Jak się pan ma I should learn more Polish - still have a couple of very elderly "pretend Uncles " from when my dad worked with members of the free polish air force after WW2. All had weird anglicised names like Bob Wilcjinsky (sp) but all lovely guys especially since I was a noisy irritating little five or six year old at the time!
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Old 05-02-2018, 02:48 AM   #35
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And of course I COULD have said Jak się pan ma
If you ask a woman, it will be Jak się Pani ma. It's like sir/madam or mister/miss.
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Old 05-02-2018, 03:29 AM   #36
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ED - He just likes to moan every time someone else does. Note he is apparently back to using reaper regardless.
So FL is a simple program for relatively simple tasks but falls down on the complex stuff. Maybe that`s why the UI is prettier than reapers?

Never used it... I suppose I should, but I find looping itself as a clumsy way of working unless using very broad brush strokes for a rough demo.
So it really comes down to horses for courses. No DAW is perfect but the trick is to find the one that works best for what you personally need to do
I have had Logic Pro, Reaper, Sonar(and now the freebie too) Studio One and many others briefly, have lengthy experience with several more but for my purposes Reaper and Snar are the most handy for me.
As usual this thread is rambling off into the customary digressions, but there ya go. .
FL Studio is never ever a simple program. Its problem is the very unintuitive way to get into complex areas of the software. Its possibilities are hidden under the bold appearance.

It has other problems, though. For example: If I create a song with 15 tracks, some VSTI and standard effects and samples, it hits quickly the 80% of cpu and begins to crackle even after optimizing everything like ImageLine says.
In Reaper I have projects with 50-80 tracks, all with VSTi, VST, samples, loops, recordings AND videos running absolutely smooth without any dropout. (Except the video preview, but that's normal.) That is just amazing.

And crashes? Sorry, MikComposer, but Reaper only crashed once for me after trying out a freeware plugin. I have to say there are always several aspects and to many constellations like audio driver, graphic card, system updates, software versions etc. can lead into software crashes. I often discussed with people about such things who sometimes meant the opposite from my experience. Sonar and FL-studio crashed the most in my system while FL studio even killed windows to a black screen. Newer versions are better but very very cpu hungry!
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