Old 09-07-2018, 04:06 PM   #1
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Default REAPER CONTEST - SEPTEMBER 2018 (FEEDBACK)

REAPER CONTEST - SEPTEMBER 2018
(ONLY REAPER PLUGINS ALLOWED)




OFFICIAL WEBSITE


MIXING: 5-22 September
VOTING: 23-28 September
RESULTS: 30 September
FEEDBACK: 1-4 October


SEPTEMBER 2018 PROJECTS
REAPER CONTEST ANALYTICS



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This month the song to mix is called Matterplay by the band Malenky Slovos. Have fun!

As always you can download the multitrack from the website or clicking on this link.

Happy mixing!
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Old 09-07-2018, 04:07 PM   #2
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Welcome everybody
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Old 09-07-2018, 09:58 PM   #3
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Wow, what an interesting song. Haven't looked at the download yet but it sounds like a challenge!
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Old 09-07-2018, 11:26 PM   #4
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Default Couldn't help myself

Already got started and turned it in haha. This was a really weird, really fun experience. Super excited to hear everyone else's attempts!
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Old 09-10-2018, 11:35 PM   #5
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This is a great song.
I'm having a total blast mixing it. It's done well enough to get an idea of what they were going for.
Vox are a bit odd - either they are going for that "Dracula" vibe or they're just that kind of strange.

I'm not mixing it with stock plugs. If I do, I know I wont be able to have the same results. It's just not fun for me personally, mixing with them.

I won't be turning in a mix at this point unless I bite the bullet, and have a go at it a second time.

peace.
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Old 09-11-2018, 06:26 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Not_Here View Post
I'm not mixing it with stock plugs. If I do, I know I wont be able to have the same results. It's just not fun for me personally, mixing with them.

I'm interested to know which plugs you are finding indispensable.

I've never purchased a "high end" plugin set. I have a few plugins like Klanghelm sdrr, mjuc and Valhalla room that I'm finding useful in other projects.
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Old 09-12-2018, 02:53 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kgarello View Post
I'm interested to know which plugs you are finding indispensable.
same!
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Old 09-12-2018, 10:15 PM   #8
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Default The Following is IMHO and is not meant to be taken as anything more than that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kgarello View Post
I'm interested to know which plugs you are finding indispensable.

I've never purchased a "high end" plugin set. I have a few plugins like Klanghelm sdrr, mjuc and Valhalla room that I'm finding useful in other projects.
Until you had said something I didn't put much thought into whether or not I even thought of any of the plugins as indespensible. But you have brought up a good point.
Let me apologize If my previous post sounded snarky. Stressed? yes, aggravated? yes...

If I were to explain in a nutshell ( or maybe a bag of nuts ) it's that I can work better and quicker with some of the plugins that I like. Whether they are some of the stock (ReaComp, ReEQ, ReaFir, ReaTune are the ones I like to use) or a much broader and (to me) much better sounding selection of 2nd party Plugins (some free, some not) that have presets that let me audition if a particular plug is what I'm looking for. Just cuz a plug worked last time for something doesn't mean it will work in a new mix the same. Having a manual that helps me better zero in on functionality helps (stock has nothing).

I can't afford the whole FabFilter Pro bundle any any of those yet, but I can get some of the much more affordable ones that provide me with similar or same functionality. I would love to have a 1000 plugs, but you know what they say , "wish in one hand - poop in the other..."


Ex. the free Blue Cat Audio Flanger and Phaser both run circles around the stock equivalents. For me. In that Mix you listened to (Loose from P.M.A.) what was one Tom sample became a whole set of toms with just a flanger + a little tiny room rev. I tried with stock and couldn't do it to sound that nice. In fact it was the Valhalla flanger that was used in the original mix...

Ex. Transify (JST) is far better with transients than the little one in JS folder. I tried the JS in every way I could think of and it had little or no positve effect (again YMMV).

Ex. Side widener (JST) makes vox so much easier to position and have just the amount of space I want. to do the same with stock plugs is like ridiculous configurations of multiple plugs, and it still only comes to almost close the the JST plug.


Ex. Using the TR5 VC-670 (fairchild clone) I have a complete manual and the same parameters that were on a 670. the stock plug of the same attempt has some of the same settings, and does not even come close to sound, documentation, or presets. I tried them both A/B, I did not like the stock at all.

the C6 by waves - dances circles around ReaXcomp
H-Reverb does anything.. period... and I don't have to mess with trying to get an IR to work in a stock plug.
The F6?? get outta town! nothing like it in the stock.
Guitars through just the compressor channel with fast attack and lowest ratio/ -20 threshold then the eq section for a little mids on SSL E Channel strip? Hella good.

Scheps Omni Channel - needs nothing else (but it does allow inserts) and it functions in mono/stereo/dual mono/MS on every module in any order/config.

Maybe I'm just digging myself a bigger hole, I'm not trying to be a dickweed or anything. Seriously. I want to be inspired and feel excited about mixing, and for me, that happens when I can use a selection of plugs that includes both.

Ken you listened to that mix I posted from P.M.A. - that was a mix of some stock and some aftermarket. It worked. That's how I want to continue my mix endeavors - with what works. For me. I would be wiling to share the vids from that mix or provide a list of Where and What plug I used for it. there is some really sneaky bastard stuff goin on in that mix. I loved having stuff like that shown and then having to puzzle out how to get it done. (but again, not just limited to stock, makes a difference - for me) And I will add that it's a mix that even translates on cell phone speakers.

That's the excitement I want to have when I mix, not feeling frustrated cuz of how long it takes me with the Stock plugs or that I have to settle cuz I cant find a sound I'm looking for and grow tired of wasting so much of what little time I have.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveKeehl View Post
same!
I'm not saying I won't participate in this contest. At some point I know I will have the time it takes me to utilize the stock plugs to satisfy what I want to hear.

I don't think that any of my plugs are indespensible. but I sure so find them invaluable when it comes to making mixing enjoyable, and yeilding a much better result. (assuming I don't make any more of the Rookie Mistakes.. hahahha )



You guy really made me think though. gotta say that. It really comes back to me I suppose in that I just am unable to really make the stock plugs sing. And that's on me, not this contest or Reaper, or anybody here in the Forums.

And I know that for many others they do not experience the stock issue in any way close to my experience. That's ok with me. I'm not knocking the contest at all.... I have been learning from it and been givin access to some great material to learn with.
The people here (in all of the Forums) also are fantastic, and truly appreciated and respected.

On a side note, Did you guys check out these? If they are JS, are they considered stock? curious....
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Old 09-13-2018, 04:22 AM   #9
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I didn't want to sound aggressive, I was just curious because I also struggle to use the Reaper stock plugins to their full potential. It's so easy for me to use other plugins and when I can't make something sound the way I want, I often think "man, if I could use [any 3rd-party plugin] I would this in 2 sec".

Anything that says JS can absolutely be used! Just make sure to include it in your Effects folder for the final delivery.
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Old 09-13-2018, 04:01 PM   #10
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I also did not mean to sound critical if that's how it came across.

I have reached a point in my mixing that I feel I have hit something of a wall.

I'm trying not to fall into the plugin trap, I believe my problems are at a more basic level.

I think I really need to work out my room acoustics.


I appreciate the discussion - thanks for taking the time for such a detailed response.
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Old 09-13-2018, 04:23 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveKeehl View Post
I didn't want to sound aggressive, I was just curious because I also struggle to use the Reaper stock plugins to their full potential. It's so easy for me to use other plugins and when I can't make something sound the way I want, I often think "man, if I could use [any 3rd-party plugin] I would this in 2 sec".

Anything that says JS can absolutely be used! Just make sure to include it in your Effects folder for the final delivery.
NO worries Sir, I saw no aggressiveness at all.. Discussion is good, talking about this stuff is good. If my comments can't stand up to a little curiosity or rebuttal then maybe I need to rethink them.

"I would this in 2 sec" I must've said that like a billion times already.. hahhahaaa.

I mean look at what it takes to use stock to process M+S separated into low - keeping it all mid (possible sidechained comp from kick) , mids, and high, and have just a compressor on the highs with only 6db per octave curve on a med Q, and 2db compression, but leave the sides of the highs alone.
With stock its a whole group of channels and plugs.
With (my 3rd party plug of choice) is like one plugin and maybe an internal sidechain. done. and it will sound better I can almost guarantee it.

As I've said learning to use stock has been nothing but helpful. They do provide an understanding of the fundamental way chains are built and configured. Instead of just using a de-ess plug, I know how to make one and route a signal to/through it. Now I use a de-ess plug and know what it is doing, and for what I want to use it for (not always de-essing vox...).
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Old 09-13-2018, 04:38 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kgarello View Post
I also did not mean to sound critical if that's how it came across.

I have reached a point in my mixing that I feel I have hit something of a wall.

I'm trying not to fall into the plugin trap, I believe my problems are at a more basic level.

I think I really need to work out my room acoustics.


I appreciate the discussion - thanks for taking the time for such a detailed response.
Not a Problem at all. Nowhere else in my daily grind can I even find people capable of discussing these things. I totally appreciate your initiating some conversation. THere was no agression percieved on your part at all. Of course I too did not want to come across aas being all full of myself.. Cuz I'm not. I have so much to learn from the people here regardless of whatever levels each of us may be at.

I feel like I've hit a wall every time I struggle to get something the way I want it. I will say though I am not a seasoned veteran at using reaper and mixing full songs. Playing my guitar and building racks and getting a band all tuned and cohesive - I got that. I got a huge boost in motivation and knowledge just recently from dong some of the courses from PLAP. Dave here, also pointed me to my next adventure Nail the Mix.
THat stuff is just what I need to be doing right now. talk about lighting a fire under me, and increasing my learning curve!!! To learn on my own the things in those courses would have taken forever using an isolated trial and error method.

And for sure Ken, you are not being critical. You stated perfectly that you were curious. I dig that. We should all be curious enough to ask questions and share information, thats the awesome part of these forums.

This contest definitely is a bennifit to any and all who participate, including myself. It gives experience, purpose, time constraints, parameters, all of which are valuable skills when it comes to mixing.

I may have said I'm not digging my results with the stock plugs, but I could also add that someday I can imagine that they may very well save my ass, because of what I'm learning by trying to use them in the contest!

Haaaa! I got it just now.. It's the contest and the Kenny Vids that are what is indispensable for me. With out them I wouldn't be at the stage I am at now.
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Old 09-16-2018, 12:22 AM   #13
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New question:

so is it better to have a song peak at it's loudest at the -14LUFS Int, or is it better to have a majority of the song as close to -14LUFS Int, and have just a rise to -13.6 LUFS Int or so...?

Or is it just nothing at all above that, and squash the hell out of it to keep it right there at -14 the whole time?
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Old 09-16-2018, 02:00 AM   #14
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Don’t quote on that because I’m no expert, but I did quite a few mixes for spotify and have never noticed any level changes from my uploaded files.

I tend to let -14 integrated as the absolute highest loudness unit. Lately, instead of using a loudness meter, I tend to constanstly tweak the limiter threshold, export, check with the sws loudness tool, re-tweak and so on.

I mix at very low level so when I engage the master limiter I get no gain reduction but only more volume instead
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Old 09-21-2018, 03:49 AM   #15
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Hey guys I've extended the mixing phase until Saturday night
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Old 09-22-2018, 05:40 AM   #16
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so i ve seen damm :]]

nice track again to mix this time

cant waith to hear the other entrys

greetz from holland
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Old 09-24-2018, 12:49 PM   #17
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The entries are now up online! You can listen to them and vote!
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Old 09-30-2018, 01:40 PM   #18
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We haven't see a tie in a long time... And honestly I'm happy it happened because those TWO mixes were really kickass
I'm talking about...

AFTERCUTRECORDS and RIFFSTREET!

Since you both guys well deserved the victory, I want you to choose a song together! Discuss and propose the most badass song you can find! When you're done, report back to me. Mkay?
If you want to know if a song has already been chosen, you can check out the analytics documents linked in this post or in the first one. Then go in the "Songs chosen" tab.
(Deadline: Thursday 4 October)
You can go on the Cambridge website if you want, or take the multitrack from another website. Just make sure it doesn't have any strict copyright.


Updated analytics (click it)

September 2018 ranking:



New Top 10:

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Old 09-30-2018, 06:15 PM   #19
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Thanks very much for the votes. Ironically, I did not like this song at all and when I first started playing back the tracks I considered skipping this month. But, I decided to go for it and am glad that I did. Below are the notes that I made while listening. To my ears, mix #3/aftercutrecords definitely was one of the best.

1. I like the sort of hollow ambience effect at the beginning, but I wish it was limited to maybe just the first verse (or both verses). The choruses could “hit” better – for example wider. I would like to hear the kick cut through more and the main lead vocal seems a bit too far back during the choruses.

2. Cool reverb on the meows. Lead vocal sounds good. Chorus hits good and wide but wait, are there some extra backing vocals in there? Drums are good during choruses but might be a little far back during the verses.

3. Very good mix. Nice job getting the snare rolls to cut through during the verses. Kick cuts nicely during choruses, but snare is a little far back. Guitars and vocals sound good during choruses. But I might be hearing some build-up of the reverb during the choruses? Or maybe it’s good. I’m having a hard time deciding. DARK – that’s what it is. The entire mix has a darkness to it… which I guess fits. I also like the tone of the lead vocal – it makes me want to go back into my own session and find some harsh frequencies to subtract out.

4. My mix.

5. I’m not a fan of the vocal effects during the verses. During the choruses, the drums get buried by everything else, especially the lead vocal which is too loud to my ears. Kick is pretty whoofy. Bass guitar sounds good.

6. Lead vocal too far back during verses? Similar to mix #1, I can dig the extreme ambience approach for maybe the verses but would like to see it reigned in for the choruses. Drums are buried under everything else during the choruses. Would like for the main vocal to be up the middle during the choruses. An interesting mix overall.

7. Where is the cat? I think it’s trying to climb out from under the synths. Chorus hits good and wide; guitars sound nice and warm during choruses. To my ears the drums could come up throughout the song. Bass distortion during turnaround is cool but maybe overdone. I like the automated panning of the “hysteria” vocal during the bridge. Some of the backing vocals are getting muddied together during the final chorus. Mix overall is very warm/dark (that's not a criticism, just an observation).

8. Good mix overall; some minor concerns: Cats too far back. Main lead vocal too far back during choruses. Bass guitar cutting very well – too well? Hearing snare mainly in right side? Kick and snare could come up. Kick is a little whoofy.

9. I like the automated panning of the “hysteria” vocal parts. I think the snare drum is a little thin/weak. Also, the bottom end in general seems to be lacking throughout – bass, kick, even the lead vocal sounds thin.

10. Mix has a nice overall tone. Strange how the snares seem to be panned both L and R during the verses. It seems like the lead vocals are too far back during the choruses in particular… or maybe it’s more that the guitars (especially the one panned R) are too high. Kick a little whoofy?
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Old 09-30-2018, 10:21 PM   #20
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Wow, this time I got more than 0 points. I guess I’m gualified now to publish my notes.

So theses are my subjective quick notes to find out whom to vote. I listened mainly first verse and chorus.


01
Verse
Too weird vox sound with bad esses
Snare could be louder if compared to toms.

Chorus
Incoherent space, drums in small room, bg-voxes in big space


02
Good overall sound
Best vox sound
Natural good drums
Low mids feel too thin

Chorus
Nice idea to pitch shift bg-voxes, but I’m not sure if I like it


03
Pretty good overall sound
Verse
Too much transients with snare + toms

Chorus
Too much transients with kick. Kick and snare don’t make a pair.


04
Verse
Natural good drums
Nice vox sound

Chorus
Too kick driven beat


05
Verse
Toms are too separated from the snare, snare far, toms very near
Vox feels a bit too roomy to be almost spoken

Chorus
Bg shouts too dry for overall sound
KIck snare balance not optimal


06
Verse
Bad esses that are fed also to reverb spoil the otherwise pretty nice mix
Drums are a bit too roomy and chaotic

Chorus
Weak drums


07
Lot’s of interesting sonical ideas here and there. GOod idea to drive bass to distortion

Verse
Drums don’t have natural space, snare distant but toms close and dry

Chorus
Kick+snare too compressed


08
Louder than others
Nice balance, bass maybe too loud
Something bothers me with sound of reverb

Verse
Nice drums

Chorus
Best chorus
Nice drums
Nice balanced full chorus


09
Verse
Ess problems
Noicy drums or cheap room sound

Chorus
Nice bass-kick-snare balance


10
My Mix

I voted for 08, 02 and 04.
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Old 10-01-2018, 01:21 AM   #21
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this month was hard to vote, so many different approaches and ideas in the mixes,
so here are my short notes:

ID01 a bit muddy, good drums, refrain looses energy maybe too much compression

ID02 my mix

ID03 snare sounds small, nice fat kick, the fx-delays could be louder

ID04 good overall sound

ID05 don't like the vocal effect too much, i like the instrumental parts

ID06 too much reverb for my taste, cool guitar sound

ID07 a bit muddy, very good energy overall

ID08 like this mix, good balanced sound

ID09 nice sound, i miss the toms in the beginning, refrain needs a bit more energy

ID10 drums too distant in the beginning, overall sound needs more presence, good kick

i voted 8-4-3
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Old 10-01-2018, 01:28 PM   #22
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Congrats the winners, AFTERCUTRECORDS and RIFFSTREET! Everyone makes a good job! Here is my little feedback.

01. Over compressed mix for my ears, but balance is good, and energy is very good!

02. Nice balance in choruses, in verses there are a little lack of instruments, interesting back vocals, but i think it's unsuitable in this song.

03. Very good mix, good energy, balances. Kick sounds very good.

04. Good mix, very pleasant sound. A little lack of glue for me.

05. Good balances, but mix sounds like a demo, maybe vocals are slightly sloppy.

06. Too much reverb, and HiHat. The high frequencies are little dirty. It may be worthwhile to apply high shelf on reverb and instruments that do not need high-frequency information.

08. Very good mix, very good balance. Some lack of drums energy for me. Maybe too much sibilants in the verse in the lead vocal compared to the chorus.

09. Some lack of guitars and energy, maybe too much high-frequencies. I like your drums sound, but overall mix sounds like a demo.

10. Good mix, good energy in the mix, but i don't like snare sound, maybe over compressed.
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Old 10-01-2018, 04:33 PM   #23
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Congrats to all. I had one listen to the song on and went "Noooooope!" to the idea of mixing it. Nevertheless I listened to everyone's mix and voted, and if I have enough time this month I will participate again. Here are my notes from my listens:

1 - Overcompressed and too much reverb at the beginning. Chorus is fine.

2 - Good balance. Bass drum is just right. Chorus hits well. Weird backing vocals. Hi hat is too loud after the first chorus. Final chorus isn't as well-controlled as it should be. (top)

3 - Intro is good except the tone on the snare is a little off. I think the bass drum is too subby starting in the chorus. Good otherwise. (top)

4 - Good panning and clarity. Chorus doesn't hit as strong and solid as I would like. (top)

5 - Appreciate the fade in. Clarity is good. The transition to the chorus is jarring though because the chorus vox are way too loud.

6 - Sounds big. A little too much reverb and could use some de-essing. It's weird that the chorus sounds quieter than the opening verse. I think the hi hat is too loud in the chorus.

7 - Frequency masking issues in the first verse and chorus. Breakdown after first chorus sounds good. Hysteria part is good.

8 - Intro is good. Chorus is good except for one repeated part of it where the backing vox come in and sort of suck away the guitars. (top)

9 - Intro is good but lacks a touch of warmth. Vox and drums need a little more treatment (too dry) during chorus and in the breakdown just after.

10 - Frequency balance is a bit off on the whole, and the chorus lacks clarity.

Voted 4 > 3 > 2.
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Old 10-03-2018, 02:40 PM   #24
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I voted 4 > 3 > 7

I hope my notes can help you figure out what you'll need to change in the next mix

ID 01
  • it sounds very lo-fi
  • the main vocal is there but it doesn't sit well in the mix
  • some instruments are buried
  • in general not very wide sounding

ID 02
  • warm tone, nice!
  • the risers are a bit too loud compared to the choruses
  • the snare is really quite, make it drive the song!
  • not a lot of low frequency information (kick and bass too quite)

ID 03
  • nice snare
  • nice mood
  • vocals fit well
  • the chorus doesn't hit as hard as I would have liked
  • the backing vocals are not balanced when panned (left >>>> right)

ID 04
  • very nice tone
  • love the vocals
  • nice stereo spread
  • the snare could be processed a bit more and the kick is a bit thin
  • well balanced in general
  • the effects on the vocals in the bridge are ok I guess but a bit weird

ID 05
  • delay on vox is too loud
  • the main vox is a bit all over the place in the chorus (it doesn't glue with the mix)
  • kick: nick thump but lacks the snap

ID 06
  • way too much reverb
  • kick and bass are too quite
  • in the chorus the snare is especially too quite

ID 07
  • vocals are a bit muffled
  • nice energy in the chorus!
  • love that gritty bass tone!
  • vocals are a bit buried

ID 08
  • nice stereo image
  • wow vocals are crystal clear!
  • the kick is too quite, especially when the bass plays at the same time
  • very well balanced overall

ID 09
  • from the start it sound a bit thin
  • the snare sounds weak, make it punch!
  • the guitars are very quite
  • I like the panned backing vox and their ping-pong effect

ID 10
  • nice stereo spread
  • drums sounds muffled
  • is the snare panned left?
  • doesn't have a lot of energy in general
  • backing vox sound muffled as well
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Last edited by DaveKeehl; 10-05-2018 at 03:33 PM.
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Old 10-03-2018, 02:42 PM   #25
DaveKeehl
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I'll create now the thread for October but please leave your feedback notes if you have any!
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Old 10-05-2018, 03:28 PM   #26
Dwblues33
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Congrats winners! I did #5 and I hear where i goofed the mix. Thank you for the opportunity to mix and the critiques. Next mix will be much better.
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